The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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NorCalLaw
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NorCalLaw » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:50 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
El Pollito wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
El Pollito wrote:yeah when i was looking for CA jobs I perused CL and saw that a lot of small firms post there


Sounds super sketchy though

meh, there isn't really a centralized place for law jobs

i found the job i now on a sketchy aggregator sight http://www.attorneyjobsinusa.com/


I mean you're not wrong, and that linked website is in my bookmarks that I check through every day. I think maybe it's just the CL education and black-on-white format that skeeves me out. No doubt I'll be using both in ~6 months when I start actively looking for a job again.


Speaking of, I wonder if any people in this thread who are out of the vale (or who have been in here for a while) could give an overview of the approach they took while looking for jobs. I remember someone posting something really helpful a few months ago to encourage us and it was really helpful. He told us how many jobs he was applying to and the frequency at which he was doing so and it helped light a fire under my ass! I think it could be helpful if some people more knowledgeable than I shared the approach they take/took to getting out of the vale (i.e. where they looked for jobs, how frequently they were applying, tips for improving chances, etc.). For instance, I only really check 2-3 sites each day--I'd love to hear where everyone else looks each day.


The next step after exhausting job postings is to seek out firms and just apply directly or contact them for a chat. Look for small-midsize firms and especially seek out firms with your school's alumni (ideally partner level). Don't be afraid to contact these alums directly. The majority will not be interested in talking to you, but some will.

You can also do the massmail thing. In fact, you should probably do all of the above.

swimmer11
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby swimmer11 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:14 am

Welp, just got dinged from another job interview. This is really starting to deteriorate my mental health....

I have now come to the conclusion that there has to be something wrong with the way I am interviewing. Are former alumni receptive to giving mock interviews? I am going to email my CSO, but I do not know how helpful she will be. Does anyone have any experience with paid interview trainers? I just can't believe I have not been able to close out a single fucking interview. I can get to the call back stage, but then I just do not know what the fuck it is.

Just so fucking annoyed.

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:52 am

swimmer11 wrote:Welp, just got dinged from another job interview. This is really starting to deteriorate my mental health....

I have now come to the conclusion that there has to be something wrong with the way I am interviewing. Are former alumni receptive to giving mock interviews? I am going to email my CSO, but I do not know how helpful she will be. Does anyone have any experience with paid interview trainers? I just can't believe I have not been able to close out a single fucking interview. I can get to the call back stage, but then I just do not know what the fuck it is.

Just so fucking annoyed.


Please, please, please do not take this personally. Hiring, in my humble opinion, is a very random process where someone might get hired over you for something stupid. I was hired once because I had traveled to the same place as the attorney doing the hiring process and he wanted to be able to talk to me about it.

Definitely reach out to alumni. Some might not want to help but someone might. It can only help to do more practice interviews.

BCgirl
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BCgirl » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:21 am

zot1 wrote:
Please, please, please do not take this personally. Hiring, in my humble opinion, is a very random process where someone might get hired over you for something stupid. I was hired once because I had traveled to the same place as the attorney doing the hiring process and he wanted to be able to talk to me about it.

Definitely reach out to alumni. Some might not want to help but someone might. It can only help to do more practice interviews.


I've heard the same. One of the attorneys I worked with while in law school said she got hired for her first job out of law school because she reminded one of the interviewers of his wife

swimmer11
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby swimmer11 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:40 am

Does anyone here have any experience with the website "lawcrossing?" I can not decide if it is worth the money or not...

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:58 am

Read a few of the latest pages... is there a post somewhere in here with some resources for finding law firm job postings?

Or anyone just know any?

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:Read a few of the latest pages... is there a post somewhere in here with some resources for finding law firm job postings?

Or anyone just know any?


Presumably your school has symplicity or some other jobs board site of its own, and that's the best place to check every day.

BYU Jobs Bank (see OP) collects the listings of a ton of schools.

PSJD.org is mostly non-profit and government, but also some firm jobs.

Something I check maybe once a week are postings on Craigslist/Indeed/Monster, which mostly suck, but every once and a while there's a job worth applying to (actually had an interview today off a cragislist posting I applied to).

If you're open to fed government, then check USAJobs every day.

State/local government; can often check various career pages of different agencies (like Attorney General's Office), or just the state's/city's version of USAJobs.

lostintheoasis
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lostintheoasis » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:34 am

Had an interview at a small firm yesterday. Excited about it really good fit for me. What is the opinion on thank you letters at this point. Also should I send them to all the interviewers. Only 6 person firm and I met with all of them

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MrMustache
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby MrMustache » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:19 pm

Just passed an interview for a CA superior court clerkship eligibility list. I was told there would be around 40 of us on the list, and that interested judges would likely select 8 people for another round of interviews for the actual position. These are the best odds I've had in a long time!

Really hoping I land the position, but after all these months of rejections I'm trying not to get my hopes up.

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:52 pm

lostintheoasis wrote:Had an interview at a small firm yesterday. Excited about it really good fit for me. What is the opinion on thank you letters at this point. Also should I send them to all the interviewers. Only 6 person firm and I met with all of them


Congrats! I'm very happy this happened and I hope you get an offer. If there was one person you had the most contact with, I would just email that person and to include I thank you and everyone at the firm...

I hope that helps!

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:53 pm

MrMustache wrote:Just passed an interview for a CA superior court clerkship eligibility list. I was told there would be around 40 of us on the list, and that interested judges would likely select 8 people for another round of interviews for the actual position. These are the best odds I've had in a long time!

Really hoping I land the position, but after all these months of rejections I'm trying not to get my hopes up.


Yay,'congrats! I really hope it works out for you.

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MrMustache
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby MrMustache » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:57 pm

zot1 wrote:
MrMustache wrote:Just passed an interview for a CA superior court clerkship eligibility list. I was told there would be around 40 of us on the list, and that interested judges would likely select 8 people for another round of interviews for the actual position. These are the best odds I've had in a long time!

Really hoping I land the position, but after all these months of rejections I'm trying not to get my hopes up.


Yay,'congrats! I really hope it works out for you.


Thank you so much!

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:38 pm

MrMustache wrote:
zot1 wrote:
MrMustache wrote:Just passed an interview for a CA superior court clerkship eligibility list. I was told there would be around 40 of us on the list, and that interested judges would likely select 8 people for another round of interviews for the actual position. These are the best odds I've had in a long time!

Really hoping I land the position, but after all these months of rejections I'm trying not to get my hopes up.


Yay,'congrats! I really hope it works out for you.


Thank you so much!


Congratulations and good luck. Question: How long after you had the interview, were you placed on the eligiblity list?

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:16 am

Entering the fourth week of waiting to hear back from an interview. Hope it's not one of those situations where my rejection letter got lost in the mail :shock: (just moved and getting mail at the new place has been a process)

Am applying to other jobs and trying to have a more positive outlook though. Keep going Valers!

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:Entering the fourth week of waiting to hear back from an interview. Hope it's not one of those situations where my rejection letter got lost in the mail :shock: (just moved and getting mail at the new place has been a process)

Am applying to other jobs and trying to have a more positive outlook though. Keep going Valers!


I really wouldn't shy away from checking in and expressing your interest. It's a gamble, sure, but it can work in your favor (showing more interest than other candidates).

Good luck!!

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:49 am

zot1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Entering the fourth week of waiting to hear back from an interview. Hope it's not one of those situations where my rejection letter got lost in the mail :shock: (just moved and getting mail at the new place has been a process)

Am applying to other jobs and trying to have a more positive outlook though. Keep going Valers!


I really wouldn't shy away from checking in and expressing your interest. It's a gamble, sure, but it can work in your favor (showing more interest than other candidates).

Good luck!!


Anon from above. Thanks! I've heard conflicting things about the helpfulness of checking in and it seems like some people on TLS really advise against it. I agree that it can indicate interest/commitment though.

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
zot1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Entering the fourth week of waiting to hear back from an interview. Hope it's not one of those situations where my rejection letter got lost in the mail :shock: (just moved and getting mail at the new place has been a process)

Am applying to other jobs and trying to have a more positive outlook though. Keep going Valers!


I really wouldn't shy away from checking in and expressing your interest. It's a gamble, sure, but it can work in your favor (showing more interest than other candidates).

Good luck!!


Anon from above. Thanks! I've heard conflicting things about the helpfulness of checking in and it seems like some people on TLS really advise against it. I agree that it can indicate interest/commitment though.


Yeah, I totally get that. I felt the same way through law school myself (getting the same advice from both my career office and TLS).

You don't have to follow this, but after a certain point when nothing was working out for me, I decided to be myself and do the things that just felt right. So for my current job, after my screener interview and after not hearing back for a while, I sent an email expressing my continued interest and whatnot. After not getting a response back for a while, I started to think that I shouldn't have done my own thing. Then boss simply replied saying "thanks, we are still interviewing," which made my doubts grow worse. But once I got hired I was told that since the last person to have my position left after just a little while on the job, they wanted someone who was overly excited about the position and I happened to show that through that follow up email and other ways.

I'm not saying do this, but this is more to show you where my comment was coming from.

But this doesn't work for everyone, so I completely understand.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
zot1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Entering the fourth week of waiting to hear back from an interview. Hope it's not one of those situations where my rejection letter got lost in the mail :shock: (just moved and getting mail at the new place has been a process)

Am applying to other jobs and trying to have a more positive outlook though. Keep going Valers!


I really wouldn't shy away from checking in and expressing your interest. It's a gamble, sure, but it can work in your favor (showing more interest than other candidates).

Good luck!!


Anon from above. Thanks! I've heard conflicting things about the helpfulness of checking in and it seems like some people on TLS really advise against it. I agree that it can indicate interest/commitment though.

I've never understood why people advise against checking in. As someone who now has to hire people to work under me I can't over emphasize how much I appreciate people who check in. Sometimes things get crazy at work and we prioritize projects over hiring, or maybe the decision is a little more difficult than we thought, or some other thing happens because we're humans who have human flaws. Obviously don't be annoying, but checking in after a few weeks is definitely a good thing to do IMO.

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:55 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
zot1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Entering the fourth week of waiting to hear back from an interview. Hope it's not one of those situations where my rejection letter got lost in the mail :shock: (just moved and getting mail at the new place has been a process)

Am applying to other jobs and trying to have a more positive outlook though. Keep going Valers!


I really wouldn't shy away from checking in and expressing your interest. It's a gamble, sure, but it can work in your favor (showing more interest than other candidates).

Good luck!!


Anon from above. Thanks! I've heard conflicting things about the helpfulness of checking in and it seems like some people on TLS really advise against it. I agree that it can indicate interest/commitment though.

I've never understood why people advise against checking in. As someone who now has to hire people to work under me I can't over emphasize how much I appreciate people who check in. Sometimes things get crazy at work and we prioritize projects over hiring, or maybe the decision is a little more difficult than we thought, or some other thing happens because we're humans who have human flaws. Obviously don't be annoying, but checking in after a few weeks is definitely a good thing to do IMO.


I agree. When I followed up for a summer clerkship (although I had another offer so I needed to know), the attorney replied that he was glad I had gotten in touch because he had been meaning to call and offer me, but he had gotten busy.

I'd dare say that if an attorney is displeased by one follow up email after several weeks, he probably wasn't planning to hire you to begin with.

But I would definitely limit this to one follow up email several weeks after the callback. Several emails just days after is another story.

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UnamSanctam
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby UnamSanctam » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:13 pm

Four weeks? I'd send the follow up.

lostintheoasis
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lostintheoasis » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:18 pm

zot1 wrote:
lostintheoasis wrote:Had an interview at a small firm yesterday. Excited about it really good fit for me. What is the opinion on thank you letters at this point. Also should I send them to all the interviewers. Only 6 person firm and I met with all of them


Congrats! I'm very happy this happened and I hope you get an offer. If there was one person you had the most contact with, I would just email that person and to include I thank you and everyone at the firm...

I hope that helps!


Thanks! It's a little weird cause I met with the 4 partners for about 30 mins then the 2 associates for about 20 mins. I was thinking about just emailing the managing partner but would copying the other 5 on the email be overkill?

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:27 pm

lostintheoasis wrote:
zot1 wrote:
lostintheoasis wrote:Had an interview at a small firm yesterday. Excited about it really good fit for me. What is the opinion on thank you letters at this point. Also should I send them to all the interviewers. Only 6 person firm and I met with all of them


Congrats! I'm very happy this happened and I hope you get an offer. If there was one person you had the most contact with, I would just email that person and to include I thank you and everyone at the firm...

I hope that helps!


Thanks! It's a little weird cause I met with the 4 partners for about 30 mins then the 2 associates for about 20 mins. I was thinking about just emailing the managing partner but would copying the other 5 on the email be overkill?


I personally wouldn't copy everyone. Chances are that the partner will simply mention it ("candidate sent a thank you). I always found it awkward to try and message everyone. However, if you have something specific to say to one of the other partners or associates because you two connected re something specific (for example: Went to the same undergrad...) then I would also email that person.

lostintheoasis
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lostintheoasis » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:31 pm

zot1 wrote:
lostintheoasis wrote:
zot1 wrote:
lostintheoasis wrote:Had an interview at a small firm yesterday. Excited about it really good fit for me. What is the opinion on thank you letters at this point. Also should I send them to all the interviewers. Only 6 person firm and I met with all of them


Congrats! I'm very happy this happened and I hope you get an offer. If there was one person you had the most contact with, I would just email that person and to include I thank you and everyone at the firm...

I hope that helps!


Sounds great thanks for the advice!

Thanks! It's a little weird cause I met with the 4 partners for about 30 mins then the 2 associates for about 20 mins. I was thinking about just emailing the managing partner but would copying the other 5 on the email be overkill?


I personally wouldn't copy everyone. Chances are that the partner will simply mention it ("candidate sent a thank you). I always found it awkward to try and message everyone. However, if you have something specific to say to one of the other partners or associates because you two connected re something specific (for example: Went to the same undergrad...) then I would also email that person.

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charlesxavier
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby charlesxavier » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:28 pm

lostintheoasis wrote:
zot1 wrote:
lostintheoasis wrote:Had an interview at a small firm yesterday. Excited about it really good fit for me. What is the opinion on thank you letters at this point. Also should I send them to all the interviewers. Only 6 person firm and I met with all of them


Congrats! I'm very happy this happened and I hope you get an offer. If there was one person you had the most contact with, I would just email that person and to include I thank you and everyone at the firm...

I hope that helps!


Thanks! It's a little weird cause I met with the 4 partners for about 30 mins then the 2 associates for about 20 mins. I was thinking about just emailing the managing partner but would copying the other 5 on the email be overkill?


I went through something similar recently. I met with 6 partners and 5 associates. I sent a thank you addressed to the partner who brought me in (thanking him and the firm) and Ccd the other 5 partners. I actually got a few responses saying it was a nice note/touch.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:30 am

Ugh I feel like I'm becoming the follow up email troll but does anyone want to share a follow up email template?
My draft email basically says I'm checking in, still interested, enjoyed meeting the interviewers/learning more about the work they do, happy to provide additional info. The follow up's not really the place to make your case for employment again, right?




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