The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:35 pm

Firms say things like that for courtesy. do not reach out unless its like 3 weeks/close to a month. 2 weeks at least.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:36 pm

Got a CB from 3L oci today! very surprised. i think they're picking 2/5 people to offer. haven't had that great of odds in a long long time.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NorCalLaw » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey TLS, some advice would be appreciated: I interviewed with a firm and they said they would get back to me last week. Spent the whole week checking phone and email, no answer. Should I email them today and ask what's up/confirm my interest or does radio silence mean that they've likely hired someone else?


The silence doesn't necessarily mean anything. You can definitely send a polite, brief email asking for an update and confirming your interest. It won't impact your chances in the least.

These gaps are especially common at small firms without staff devoted to the hiring process.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Siriusendeavor » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:32 am

Need some advice. J.D. + LLM abroad. Have not passed the bar exam yet, but received an offer to work at a small tax/estate firm for ~24K. Need advice or thoughts on whether it may be better to return to the U.S. and restart job hunting there. I planned to accept the offer and work to gain experience while I study and pass the bar exam. I landed the position due an internship with a Big4 audit company for 6 months prior. Is it feasible with student debt to just make it through with 24k to start while I become licensed and gain more experience in the field? I think returning to the U.S. and spending another 3+ months job hunting and re-establishing a network might not be worth it if I can already start working even if for a lower pay. I don't see that a comparable position in the U.S. would pay a higher wage without passing the bar first. Any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:38 am

I have two networking lunches set up (I just moved to a new state, don't know anyone, the two lawyers I'm meeting aren't hiring), and I'm not sure what I should wear/bring. Suggestions?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have two networking lunches set up (I just moved to a new state, don't know anyone, the two lawyers I'm meeting aren't hiring), and I'm not sure what I should wear/bring. Suggestions?


I would always suit up. Until you get a job, dress to impress.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:09 pm

Checking in. Looks like I'm here. Midlaw firm that I worked at since 1L summer offered me opportunity to keep working during 3L, but no guarantee of an associate position. I'm not super surprised as they just brought in a new associate - and we've been busy, but there's not enough work for one additional associate (i.e. me) at this time.

Looks like it has nothing to do with me and I was assured by the senior and partner I work for that my work product is excellent; just shitty circumstances. Still, this feels fucking awful, and I really just want to go home for the rest of the day. Guess I need to get back to massmailing...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:33 am

Has anyone tried contacting a firm after callback-rejection to express continuing interest? I had a callback with a firm that I really liked in a mid-size market. While I was there, the recruiter strongly implied that they had already filled their entry-level hiring, but that they were interested in me because of my background. I thought the interview went well (but what the hell do I know), so when they rejected me I assumed it was because they didn't have space (again: but what the hell do I know). About 6 months have gone by and I am still really interested in the firm-- would it be weird to reach out at this point to the recruiter to express my continuing interest?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NorCalLaw » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone tried contacting a firm after callback-rejection to express continuing interest? I had a callback with a firm that I really liked in a mid-size market. While I was there, the recruiter strongly implied that they had already filled their entry-level hiring, but that they were interested in me because of my background. I thought the interview went well (but what the hell do I know), so when they rejected me I assumed it was because they didn't have space (again: but what the hell do I know). About 6 months have gone by and I am still really interested in the firm-- would it be weird to reach out at this point to the recruiter to express my continuing interest?


It's unlikely to help, but it won't hurt you, if that's what you're concerned about. Best case scenario is that a new position opened up and you might get in on top of the heap. Likely scenario is that nothing has changed and they will politely tell you to go away.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey TLS, some advice would be appreciated: I interviewed with a firm and they said they would get back to me last week. Spent the whole week checking phone and email, no answer. Should I email them today and ask what's up/confirm my interest or does radio silence mean that they've likely hired someone else?


This is the worst. I just wish they would say honestly how long they thought it'd be! I don't think lawyers remember how stressful it is waiting to hear something when you're looking for job (not that this is surprising though--it's the least of their concerns).

I would give it some more time though. After two weeks, I think it would be appropriate.
Last edited by shredderrrrrr on Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Where are you guys even looking for jobs? 2015 grad here. I'm not coming across anything, my school has a handful of postings I'm eligible for. Sent out resumes to those and some from CL, but there's nothing else. Not sure what to do and feel really desperate. Graduated from low ranked school around median :cry:


I'm running into the same problem. I finally applied to all the jobs I had been meaning to when preparing for the bar, but now I've exhausted all of them on my school's job site. They post like 5 or 6 a day, maybe 1 or 2 I am even interested in/qualified for. I've also looked at relevant national organizations for my niche field, but that is pretty slim pickings too.

Do people look on sites like Monster or Craigslist? Or should those be avoided?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:03 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Where are you guys even looking for jobs? 2015 grad here. I'm not coming across anything, my school has a handful of postings I'm eligible for. Sent out resumes to those and some from CL, but there's nothing else. Not sure what to do and feel really desperate. Graduated from low ranked school around median :cry:


I'm running into the same problem. I finally applied to all the jobs I had been meaning to when preparing for the bar, but now I've exhausted all of them on my school's job site. They post like 5 or 6 a day, maybe 1 or 2 I am even interested in/qualified for. I've also looked at relevant national organizations for my niche field, but that is pretty slim pickings too.

Do people look on sites like Monster or Craigslist? Or should those be avoided?


I know two people from different schools but same market (LA) who got their jobs off of craigslist. Their advice to me when I was looking was somewhat as follows: "look and apply to all the positions that seem legit. You might go to some interviews that you'll regret, but some others will actually work out." They both got jobs with small firms (4-6 attorneys) and I think ones starting pay was 60k/yr and the other 50k/yr (though he has since gotten three raises, but I didn't ask for how much).

I hope this helps.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby El Pollito » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:41 pm

yeah when i was looking for CA jobs I perused CL and saw that a lot of small firms post there

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby UnamSanctam » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:02 pm

El Pollito wrote:yeah when i was looking for CA jobs I perused CL and saw that a lot of small firms post there


Sounds super sketchy though

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby El Pollito » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:11 am

UnamSanctam wrote:
El Pollito wrote:yeah when i was looking for CA jobs I perused CL and saw that a lot of small firms post there


Sounds super sketchy though

meh, there isn't really a centralized place for law jobs

i found the job i now on a sketchy aggregator sight http://www.attorneyjobsinusa.com/

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:Checking in. Looks like I'm here. Midlaw firm that I worked at since 1L summer offered me opportunity to keep working during 3L, but no guarantee of an associate position. I'm not super surprised as they just brought in a new associate - and we've been busy, but there's not enough work for one additional associate (i.e. me) at this time.

Looks like it has nothing to do with me and I was assured by the senior and partner I work for that my work product is excellent; just shitty circumstances. Still, this feels fucking awful, and I really just want to go home for the rest of the day. Guess I need to get back to massmailing...


Same thing happened to me today except I've only been there for this 2L summer. I'm still optimistic I'll ultimately get an offer but now I'm kinda screwed for back up plans. No 3L OCI at my TTT. I'm focusing on a niche (patent law) and I mass mailed all the patent firms in CA for a 2L summer position. Probably should look to expand my search at this point and apply for every job posted (although they are almost all for attorneys with 2 years experience).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:43 am

UnamSanctam wrote:
El Pollito wrote:yeah when i was looking for CA jobs I perused CL and saw that a lot of small firms post there


Sounds super sketchy though


Sketchy and all but those two dudes are now practicing lawyers with paychecks, so maybe worth a try.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby UnamSanctam » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:16 am

El Pollito wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
El Pollito wrote:yeah when i was looking for CA jobs I perused CL and saw that a lot of small firms post there


Sounds super sketchy though

meh, there isn't really a centralized place for law jobs

i found the job i now on a sketchy aggregator sight http://www.attorneyjobsinusa.com/


I mean you're not wrong, and that linked website is in my bookmarks that I check through every day. I think maybe it's just the CL education and black-on-white format that skeeves me out. No doubt I'll be using both in ~6 months when I start actively looking for a job again.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Checking in. Looks like I'm here. Midlaw firm that I worked at since 1L summer offered me opportunity to keep working during 3L, but no guarantee of an associate position. I'm not super surprised as they just brought in a new associate - and we've been busy, but there's not enough work for one additional associate (i.e. me) at this time.

Looks like it has nothing to do with me and I was assured by the senior and partner I work for that my work product is excellent; just shitty circumstances. Still, this feels fucking awful, and I really just want to go home for the rest of the day. Guess I need to get back to massmailing...


Same thing happened to me today except I've only been there for this 2L summer. I'm still optimistic I'll ultimately get an offer but now I'm kinda screwed for back up plans. No 3L OCI at my TTT. I'm focusing on a niche (patent law) and I mass mailed all the patent firms in CA for a 2L summer position. Probably should look to expand my search at this point and apply for every job posted (although they are almost all for attorneys with 2 years experience).


Anon that responded to me - did you do any corporate work this summer? Transactional stuff is nuts in SV right now (which is, ironically, why I find myself in this place - corporate/startup practice grew more quickly than the firm anticipated, but may not grow quickly enough). If so, you might want to mail all firms with an SV/SF office and a decent startup practice - at least that's my plan.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BCgirl » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:16 pm

I just wanted to update - finally got a interview set up for next week. I thought I was screwed - I mean, seriously, there are 2 people firms I've applied to that haven't responded to me. I'm so nervous and scared, and terrified that I'll mess it up. I haven't done many interviews - any resources I should read up on, advice?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dresden doll » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:43 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:same anon as above, my school doesn't provide rank, so all I can do is put my GPA


Yup. Luckily some employers think that a 3.2 is good or good enough. I'm still not sure whether a school not ranking is a net benefit or harm, but it probably depends on how localized your PI/govt office is. I suspect local places that don't hire from select schools a lot will be less likely to know where you stand in the class by looking at your GPA (unlike big law, for example, where there are large class sizes and firms keep tabs on how relatively good or bad a GPA is).


I know I'm late to the party, but FWIW, I work for an impact nonprofit (i.e. the type that's more likely to care about grades), and I've never put GPA on my resume and never had that questioned either. If a nonprofit cares for your grades, they'll ask for your transcript.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:07 pm

I've went on a couple interviews, applied to a couple jobs, but I still can't muster the effort to start mass mailing and truly trying to find a job.

I'm pretty sure I'm depressed after the no offer. Anyone else struggling?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:49 pm

BCgirl wrote:I just wanted to update - finally got a interview set up for next week. I thought I was screwed - I mean, seriously, there are 2 people firms I've applied to that haven't responded to me. I'm so nervous and scared, and terrified that I'll mess it up. I haven't done many interviews - any resources I should read up on, advice?


I don't know what good my advice is (considering I too am in the Vale), but I would recommend just doing as many practice interview questions as you can. Either brainstorm ones you imagine being asked or do a Google search--but be thoughtful in what you actually envision being of interest in the interview. For instance, I have never been asked the generic questions like "what is your biggest weakness," but frequently stumble over common seemingly simple ones like "tell us about yourself" or "why would you be a good fit for this firm specifically." For me it helps having canned responses (of sorts) so I'm not constantly going "umm.., uh..." as I string together the right words.

Also, when doing practice answers, I recommend doing so out loud. I have found that, while I may think I've got a good answer in my head, it's not always as easy to move the words from my brain to my mouth when nervous and under pressure. If you can have a friend or someone ask you the questions, it's even better (because it makes it that much more awkward and "real").

Finally, be sure you know your application materials inside and out. I remember my first interview during law school, I had not reviewed my resume before. The first question was "tell us about [obscure job I held for a few months years prior]." I could hardly utter out an intelligent word. Similarly, the first thing I was asked in my interview for the state court of appeals position I had 2L summer was to explain a footnote in my law review note (my writing sample). I just had a state supreme court interview where the chief justice started with "tell me about being a radio DJ in undergrad." So simply put, you have no idea what an interviewer is going to be drawn to in your application materials--be ready to discuss them all. Thankfully this is pretty easy if you just review your materials for an hour or so before the interview.

Hope this helps! While I have yet to find full-time employment, I have found doing these two things (verbal practice answers and thoroughly reviewing my application materials) has substantially improved my interviewing ability. Good luck!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:54 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:
El Pollito wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
El Pollito wrote:yeah when i was looking for CA jobs I perused CL and saw that a lot of small firms post there


Sounds super sketchy though

meh, there isn't really a centralized place for law jobs

i found the job i now on a sketchy aggregator sight http://www.attorneyjobsinusa.com/


I mean you're not wrong, and that linked website is in my bookmarks that I check through every day. I think maybe it's just the CL education and black-on-white format that skeeves me out. No doubt I'll be using both in ~6 months when I start actively looking for a job again.


Speaking of, I wonder if any people in this thread who are out of the vale (or who have been in here for a while) could give an overview of the approach they took while looking for jobs. I remember someone posting something really helpful a few months ago to encourage us and it was really helpful. He told us how many jobs he was applying to and the frequency at which he was doing so and it helped light a fire under my ass! I think it could be helpful if some people more knowledgeable than I shared the approach they take/took to getting out of the vale (i.e. where they looked for jobs, how frequently they were applying, tips for improving chances, etc.). For instance, I only really check 2-3 sites each day--I'd love to hear where everyone else looks each day.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:17 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
El Pollito wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:
El Pollito wrote:yeah when i was looking for CA jobs I perused CL and saw that a lot of small firms post there


Sounds super sketchy though

meh, there isn't really a centralized place for law jobs

i found the job i now on a sketchy aggregator sight http://www.attorneyjobsinusa.com/


I mean you're not wrong, and that linked website is in my bookmarks that I check through every day. I think maybe it's just the CL education and black-on-white format that skeeves me out. No doubt I'll be using both in ~6 months when I start actively looking for a job again.


Speaking of, I wonder if any people in this thread who are out of the vale (or who have been in here for a while) could give an overview of the approach they took while looking for jobs. I remember someone posting something really helpful a few months ago to encourage us and it was really helpful. He told us how many jobs he was applying to and the frequency at which he was doing so and it helped light a fire under my ass! I think it could be helpful if some people more knowledgeable than I shared the approach they take/took to getting out of the vale (i.e. where they looked for jobs, how frequently they were applying, tips for improving chances, etc.). For instance, I only really check 2-3 sites each day--I'd love to hear where everyone else looks each day.


I would set a time per day to look for jobs and Google the crap out of stuff. I think it helps to think of places you might want to work at because certain places will only list on their own site. Additionally, and if flexible, look to out of state places. I know some state bar list jobs but I couldn't tell you which ones.

A friend also recommended setting up networking coffee dates. I hate networking, but to all those of you who are overly charming, it might not hurt. Maybe sending a message to former supervisors you got along with?




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