The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 31, 2015 10:38 pm

2015 grad here. I'm still waiting for half of my grades so what GPA should I list on my resume? So far, last semester grades have brought my GPA up from the end of 2L year but is it bad if I list that and my GPA ends up going down due to the grades I'm waiting on?

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Sun May 31, 2015 11:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2015 grad here. I'm still waiting for half of my grades so what GPA should I list on my resume? So far, last semester grades have brought my GPA up from the end of 2L year but is it bad if I list that and my GPA ends up going down due to the grades I'm waiting on?


I could be doing it wrong, but I have just been updating my GPA (and transcript) and submitting it based on whatever grades I have back at that time.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Sun May 31, 2015 11:42 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:updating my GPA (and transcript) and submitting it based on whatever grades I have back at that time.


This.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:11 am

How are jobless recent grads searching for jobs? I'm kind of at a loss.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:35 pm

Was unofficially out of the Vale for a while, but now it's official. Thought I was going to strike out at OCI, landed a SA position very late. Was super jacked about it, had a great time and never received a bad review. Got no-offer owned (reason was personality/fit; given that this firm's office has dropped about 10 attorneys and demoted another 5 or so from associate to staff attorney, I'm going to say that wasn't the reason). Struggled mightily all 3L year to land something at a firm but didn't. Literally the day after I graduated, I received my top choice clerkship with a district court judge where I wanted to practice.

In the last two weeks, I landed a few offers and accepted one. Meets all my criteria in an area that I think I'll enjoy practicing. Still sorta at a loss for what to do because I feel like I've been in a constant state of applying for jobs for like the past three years. I remember posting in this thread when it was under 5 pages.

Also wanna say that a bunch of my classmates who graduated without a job have landed some really great positions. More than a few people did a year or so doing pretty crappy stuff and are now moving to more interesting and higher paying work (case in point, a friend of mine moved from doing low-end volume domestic disputes to a very respectable civil defense shop).

Stay positive and keep at it. Doing this shit sucks, but the alternative is worse. Best of luck to everyone still looking.

edit: Oh yeah, I kept every single rejection letter I got from OCI to now. I'm gonna keep that bundle with me as a reminder to keep plugging along even when things are super shitty.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby minnbills » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:27 pm

Congrats! Awesome.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby coldshoulder » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:16 pm

kapital98 wrote:I'm class of 2014. I was getting paid $1,000 per month by my law school to work at a public interest organization. Over the course of 9 months I used every dollar they gave me and accrued a ton of credit card debt. The silver lining: A week before I was going to move back in with my parents (90 miles away in the country) I got an offer! I just started my job last week. It's going to take a long time to pay off that credit card debt but things are starting to come together.


I'm so jealous of this. My school doesn't do this at all for new grads and it would be perfect for me, especially in my market (PI jobs are nearly impossible to come by here without at least 1-3 real years of atty exp). Not to mention, I'm single and 25 and I can easily live off $1,000 a month.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dresden doll » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If I am already working with the org I want to be my fellowship sponsor, do I need to submit another cover letter, resume, and writing sample? (I already submitted these materials when I applied for the internship)

Sorry, I am such a rookie at this.


You need to use your judgment taking into account the level of formality at the place where you work. I personally would not consider it necessary for a current intern to resubmit their application under the circumstances you describe, but I can't speak for everyone. Why don't you just ask your supervisor? Explain that you're interested in being sponsored and ask that they share how you should go about applying for the sponsorship. I don't know of anyone who would be offended at being asked (and if they were, they're probably not someone you want to work for long-term).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:30 pm

Might get offered a job where I'd work 10-11 hrs/day M-F. If I did get the job, I'd want to keep trying for something better while I was there (shit pay, plus I'm soft and prefer easier hours).

I could look for jobs on my off time, but when I do land an interview, what would I do? I don't think I'd want to tell my new employer that I'm looking for something better. So if I landed an interview, should I make up some reason for being out of the office for ~2hrs?



Thanks

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Might get offered a job where I'd work 10-11 hrs/day M-F. If I did get the job, I'd want to keep trying for something better while I was there (shit pay, plus I'm soft and prefer easier hours).

I could look for jobs on my off time, but when I do land an interview, what would I do? I don't think I'd want to tell my new employer that I'm looking for something better. So if I landed an interview, should I make up some reason for being out of the office for ~2hrs?



Thanks

Just say "I have an appointment on Thursday and need to take off early/come in late/whatever." There is no requirement or expectation that you inform employers of every waking moment of your non-work life. Let them assume it's a doctor's appointment.

Edited b/c I'm an idiot and read 10-11 hrs/day as hrs/week!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What kind of follow-up do you guys usually do for an application? For example, if a position has a specific closing date when the organization will stop accepting applications, is there an amount of time you wait after that to inquire about whether you're still being considered? Do you never follow-up unless you've had an interview?

My thought is that it's always positive to show interest as long as you aren't harassing people every day. Is that true, or is it frowned upon to try to contact them after applying?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:03 pm

Is there any point to mass mailing as a graduate? I'm not sure what else I should or can be doing at this point.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gr8scOtt! » Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What kind of follow-up do you guys usually do for an application? For example, if a position has a specific closing date when the organization will stop accepting applications, is there an amount of time you wait after that to inquire about whether you're still being considered? Do you never follow-up unless you've had an interview?

My thought is that it's always positive to show interest as long as you aren't harassing people every day. Is that true, or is it frowned upon to try to contact them after applying?

Me personally, I would not follow up unless I had an interview. But maybe if it was a job I REALLY wanted (we're talking dream job here), I would inquire whether the position had been filled, and if not, confirm they received my materials and reiterate my interest in the position about a month after the closing date.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:31 pm

What is the proper approach for listing class rank on resumes? If I finished law school 31/117 (26.495), should I put top 30%? Top third? Or the exact number (27%)?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:29 pm

What's wrong with

GPA 3.48 (#31/117)

?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby timmyd » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:37 pm

To the above poster that got no offered and then received federal clerkship and offers for firms shortly after...
What was your strategy? Just mass mail? Or were they firms located in your region you were able to actually have informational talks with? I'm in a somewhat similar situation, i.e., high grades, dist clerkship (but flyover), with nothing lined up for after the clerkship. Should I start mailing firms now or take the conventional wisdom of waiting till the clerkship is about halfway over?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kapital98 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:56 pm

coldshoulder wrote:
kapital98 wrote:I'm class of 2014. I was getting paid $1,000 per month by my law school to work at a public interest organization. Over the course of 9 months I used every dollar they gave me and accrued a ton of credit card debt. The silver lining: A week before I was going to move back in with my parents (90 miles away in the country) I got an offer! I just started my job last week. It's going to take a long time to pay off that credit card debt but things are starting to come together.


I'm so jealous of this. My school doesn't do this at all for new grads and it would be perfect for me, especially in my market (PI jobs are nearly impossible to come by here without at least 1-3 real years of atty exp). Not to mention, I'm single and 25 and I can easily live off $1,000 a month.


$1,000/month is a tough pill to swallow. Unless you live at home you've got rent to pay. Even with a roommate that's an easy $400. The cost of a car, groceries, phone, and everything else adds up quickly. Plus, that's pre-tax dollars. Uncle Sam gave me a $450 tax bill for 2014 (and that's after the EITC).

What really got me were two things: First, some private law school loans I had taken out didn't accept IBR and demanded repayment. Right before I got my new job I was paying $250 in loans (all the federal loans accepted IBR and gave me an extra year). Second, the local welfare office denied me food stamps (after an extremely long wait) because they didn't understand how I was getting my money. :x

I guess you can do it if you really try. I was living in the ghetto and still spending about $1,500/month just to get by. It was actually kind of funny, many of the criminal cases I worked on were literally blocks away from where I lived. It's great that my school gave out that money (and more schools should) but it's just not enough to live on for an extended period of time.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:55 pm

BVest wrote:What's wrong with

GPA 3.48 (#31/117)

?


That's a good alternative. I feel stupid for not having thought of it. I've just always used the whole "Top %" format because that's what my school's sample resumes had.

Thanks!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby MNbound » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:15 pm

Recent May 2015 Grad here. I am recently facing a bit of a dilemma in deciding between two jobs that would put me down very different paths.

Job 1: I currently work about 20 hours per week as a law clerk at a plaintiff-side employment discrimination law firm. The firm is very well respected and probably one of the best in my market. This is exactly the kind of work I have always wanted to do and have done throughout law school at other law firms. However, a full-time position is not guaranteed. Additionally, there is one other law clerk in the same boat as me, so for both of us to make it, two positions would have to be created by this fall. The firm is doing great and they have treated me very well so far, but they also specifically mentioned that they could not guarantee an attorney position come bar results time. From what I've gathered, starting pay for associates is a base salary of 45-50k, plus 20% or so on attorneys fees collected by the firm for your cases. I've also seen that they tend to value work/life balance and give pretty generous vacation time and do not expect you to work nights/weekends unless something big is coming up.

Job 2: I was just offered a compliance position at a bank starting at 55k. It would be more interesting then some other compliance positions, but it probably would be boring, rote work after a while. They mentioned that this particular area of compliance was going to grow rapidly, especially within the bank, and that I could expect to move up quickly. Job would be 40 hours a week, pretty good vacation/health benefits, and better retirement benefits. The downside is that I would be stuck doing compliance for the rest of my life probably, unless I lateraled out quickly or somehow managed to move to in house counsel at the bank.

Debt isn't that much of an issue, my total educational debt including interest is just below 20k. COL is pretty low, secondary market.

What should I do?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:22 pm

MNbound wrote:Recent May 2015 Grad here. I am recently facing a bit of a dilemma in deciding between two jobs that would put me down very different paths.

Job 1: I currently work about 20 hours per week as a law clerk at a plaintiff-side employment discrimination law firm. The firm is very well respected and probably one of the best in my market. This is exactly the kind of work I have always wanted to do and have done throughout law school at other law firms. However, a full-time position is not guaranteed. Additionally, there is one other law clerk in the same boat as me, so for both of us to make it, two positions would have to be created by this fall. The firm is doing great and they have treated me very well so far, but they also specifically mentioned that they could not guarantee an attorney position come bar results time. From what I've gathered, starting pay for associates is a base salary of 45-50k, plus 20% or so on attorneys fees collected by the firm for your cases. I've also seen that they tend to value work/life balance and give pretty generous vacation time and do not expect you to work nights/weekends unless something big is coming up.

Job 2: I was just offered a compliance position at a bank starting at 55k. It would be more interesting then some other compliance positions, but it probably would be boring, rote work after a while. They mentioned that this particular area of compliance was going to grow rapidly, especially within the bank, and that I could expect to move up quickly. Job would be 40 hours a week, pretty good vacation/health benefits, and better retirement benefits. The downside is that I would be stuck doing compliance for the rest of my life probably, unless I lateraled out quickly or somehow managed to move to in house counsel at the bank.

Debt isn't that much of an issue, my total educational debt including interest is just below 20k. COL is pretty low, secondary market.

What should I do?


That is a tough one. Classic one in hand, two in bush situation. Not sure what you should do short of talking with your firm and seeing whether they can commit one way or the other in the immediate future.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 3|ink » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:00 pm

MNbound wrote:Recent May 2015 Grad here. I am recently facing a bit of a dilemma in deciding between two jobs that would put me down very different paths.

Job 1: I currently work about 20 hours per week as a law clerk at a plaintiff-side employment discrimination law firm. The firm is very well respected and probably one of the best in my market. This is exactly the kind of work I have always wanted to do and have done throughout law school at other law firms. However, a full-time position is not guaranteed. Additionally, there is one other law clerk in the same boat as me, so for both of us to make it, two positions would have to be created by this fall. The firm is doing great and they have treated me very well so far, but they also specifically mentioned that they could not guarantee an attorney position come bar results time. From what I've gathered, starting pay for associates is a base salary of 45-50k, plus 20% or so on attorneys fees collected by the firm for your cases. I've also seen that they tend to value work/life balance and give pretty generous vacation time and do not expect you to work nights/weekends unless something big is coming up.

Job 2: I was just offered a compliance position at a bank starting at 55k. It would be more interesting then some other compliance positions, but it probably would be boring, rote work after a while. They mentioned that this particular area of compliance was going to grow rapidly, especially within the bank, and that I could expect to move up quickly. Job would be 40 hours a week, pretty good vacation/health benefits, and better retirement benefits. The downside is that I would be stuck doing compliance for the rest of my life probably, unless I lateraled out quickly or somehow managed to move to in house counsel at the bank.

Debt isn't that much of an issue, my total educational debt including interest is just below 20k. COL is pretty low, secondary market.

What should I do?

Tough call, but I'd say job 1 if the salary you earn over the next few months working only part-time is enough to cover your living expenses. Everyone is miserable in this profession. You might as well be doing something you like, or getting work experience in that field so you will have an easier time finding a similar position at another firm if a position does not open up.
Last edited by 3|ink on Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby coldshoulder » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:21 pm

kapital98 wrote:
coldshoulder wrote:
kapital98 wrote:I'm class of 2014. I was getting paid $1,000 per month by my law school to work at a public interest organization. Over the course of 9 months I used every dollar they gave me and accrued a ton of credit card debt. The silver lining: A week before I was going to move back in with my parents (90 miles away in the country) I got an offer! I just started my job last week. It's going to take a long time to pay off that credit card debt but things are starting to come together.


I'm so jealous of this. My school doesn't do this at all for new grads and it would be perfect for me, especially in my market (PI jobs are nearly impossible to come by here without at least 1-3 real years of atty exp). Not to mention, I'm single and 25 and I can easily live off $1,000 a month.


$1,000/month is a tough pill to swallow. Unless you live at home you've got rent to pay. Even with a roommate that's an easy $400. The cost of a car, groceries, phone, and everything else adds up quickly. Plus, that's pre-tax dollars. Uncle Sam gave me a $450 tax bill for 2014 (and that's after the EITC).

What really got me were two things: First, some private law school loans I had taken out didn't accept IBR and demanded repayment. Right before I got my new job I was paying $250 in loans (all the federal loans accepted IBR and gave me an extra year). Second, the local welfare office denied me food stamps (after an extremely long wait) because they didn't understand how I was getting my money. :x

I guess you can do it if you really try. I was living in the ghetto and still spending about $1,500/month just to get by. It was actually kind of funny, many of the criminal cases I worked on were literally blocks away from where I lived. It's great that my school gave out that money (and more schools should) but it's just not enough to live on for an extended period of time.



I guess cost of living is just a lot cheaper where I am then. I lived on $12k a year before law school, so I'm used to it. My main point is that it would be great to be paid something to get a foot in the door and get that initial year of true lawyering experience, because until you get that all the goddamn doors are closed. And I can't afford to volunteer for a year, but I could make $1k a month work.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kapital98 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:04 pm

coldshoulder wrote:
I guess cost of living is just a lot cheaper where I am then. I lived on $12k a year before law school, so I'm used to it. My main point is that it would be great to be paid something to get a foot in the door and get that initial year of true lawyering experience, because until you get that all the goddamn doors are closed. And I can't afford to volunteer for a year, but I could make $1k a month work.


Have you thought about doing a stint with AmeriCorps? I interned at a Legal Aid office that employed an Americorp paralegal and attorney. Both of them made right around $12k plus minimal benefits. The attorney worked for Americorp for a little over a year until a full time position opened up and he was hired by the office. I'm not sure if the paralegal is still with Americorp but it's been 2 years since then and he's still working there.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:16 pm

MNbound wrote:Recent May 2015 Grad here. I am recently facing a bit of a dilemma in deciding between two jobs that would put me down very different paths.

Job 1: This is exactly the kind of work I have always wanted to do and have done throughout law school at other law firms. However, a full-time position is not guaranteed.

Job 2: I was just offered a compliance position at a bank starting at 55k.

Debt isn't that much of an issue, my total educational debt including interest is just below 20k. COL is pretty low, secondary market.

What should I do?


I'd go with Job 1, and continue with the job hunt while you are there. Personally, I'm more committed to being in the field I'm interested in (if possible) than anything else.

Plus, despite what they say, you really don't know how safe a job is gonna be in the private sector (assuming you don't have a favorable contract).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby coldshoulder » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:18 pm

kapital98 wrote:
coldshoulder wrote:
I guess cost of living is just a lot cheaper where I am then. I lived on $12k a year before law school, so I'm used to it. My main point is that it would be great to be paid something to get a foot in the door and get that initial year of true lawyering experience, because until you get that all the goddamn doors are closed. And I can't afford to volunteer for a year, but I could make $1k a month work.


Have you thought about doing a stint with AmeriCorps? I interned at a Legal Aid office that employed an Americorp paralegal and attorney. Both of them made right around $12k plus minimal benefits. The attorney worked for Americorp for a little over a year until a full time position opened up and he was hired by the office. I'm not sure if the paralegal is still with Americorp but it's been 2 years since then and he's still working there.


Thanks for the heads up, I'll look into it!




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