The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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whatamidoing
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatamidoing » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just rejected by two firms after second interviews in favor of attorneys with more work experience.

Almost a year out and barely surviving. Shit sucks.


Ah yes, two years experience, the new "entry level" attorney position.

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zot1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby zot1 » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:50 am

whatamidoing wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just rejected by two firms after second interviews in favor of attorneys with more work experience.

Almost a year out and barely surviving. Shit sucks.


Ah yes, two years experience, the new "entry level" attorney position.


This ^. So frustrating.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:12 pm

2 years isn't even cutting it anymore unless it's 2 years with a big firm. I have 2 years, but have been told repeatedly I don't have enough experience and then see them hire a 5 year person. Fuck this line of work.

NorCalLaw
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NorCalLaw » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:2 years isn't even cutting it anymore unless it's 2 years with a big firm. I have 2 years, but have been told repeatedly I don't have enough experience and then see them hire a 5 year person. Fuck this line of work.


The ridiculous part is that you'll actually have more real experience coming from a small firm, especially if it's litigation. The prestige masturbation is real.

kykiske
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kykiske » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:44 pm

(Sorry to detract from the bar-prep discussion)

At this point in the game, is it even common for employers to extend post-grad offers? I'm still hustling and applying every day. But I'm starting to wonder whether I should just focus on finishing 3L strong and passing the bar.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:15 pm

kykiske wrote:(Sorry to detract from the bar-prep discussion)

At this point in the game, is it even common for employers to extend post-grad offers? I'm still hustling and applying every day. But I'm starting to wonder whether I should just focus on finishing 3L strong and passing the bar.


I would like some insight into this as well. Is it worth it to apply for legal jobs 3L summer or do employers want to see bar passage first at that point?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kykiske wrote:(Sorry to detract from the bar-prep discussion)

At this point in the game, is it even common for employers to extend post-grad offers? I'm still hustling and applying every day. But I'm starting to wonder whether I should just focus on finishing 3L strong and passing the bar.


I would like some insight into this as well. Is it worth it to apply for legal jobs 3L summer or do employers want to see bar passage first at that point?


My two cents: Prior to getting a job last minute last week, my plan was to completely stop my job search when I began bar study. Alumni I spoke to about my plan criticize me and were adamant that I should not stop applying. However, I had very good, albeit personal, reasons to wanting to stick to that plan: 1. I saw many in my school get jobs, but some lost them because they failed the bar. I figured it was better to pass the bar without a job than getting a job and losing it because I didn't pass the bar (please note: some employers let you retake...). 2. It's hard for me not to get sad when I get rejections. I didn't want my mood to be down while studying for the bar because I knew it would affect my learning. 3. I got the feeling that many employers I was after would not consider apps until I had taken the bar anyway.

Now, I got lucky and got a job. But if I hadn't, I would have stuck to my plan. As you can see though, that would have been the case because I thought my plan would better serve my long-term career goals. So you might want to look at what your goals are and how applying during bar prep could help or keep you from your goals.

Good luck!

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horriblegb
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby horriblegb » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:14 pm

kykiske wrote:(Sorry to detract from the bar-prep discussion)

At this point in the game, is it even common for employers to extend post-grad offers? I'm still hustling and applying every day. But I'm starting to wonder whether I should just focus on finishing 3L strong and passing the bar.



FWIW from personal experience I still applied/mass mailed, but I cut it back a lot. My focus switched to the bar exam but I would still make an effort to send out a couple of emails a day. Having said all that, I did pass the bar but I did not get a job until after I was admitted. So it may have been a waste of my time, but I do not feel it detracted from my studying at all.

I would have done it the same way I think.

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rinkrat19
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:52 pm

I didn't get the school-funded fellowship that would have set me up in Portland. Two of the four people on the selection committee had told me I had an extremely good shot at one of the awards, so I'm pretty devastated. They must have HATED my interview (which was not my best, I admit.) Just spent 20 minutes in tears on the phone to my dad, who is sympathetic and supportive but does not understand legal hiring at all.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:04 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:I didn't get the school-funded fellowship that would have set me up in Portland. Two of the four people on the selection committee had told me I had an extremely good shot at one of the awards, so I'm pretty devastated. They must have HATED my interview (which was not my best, I admit.) Just spent 20 minutes in tears on the phone to my dad, who is sympathetic and supportive but does not understand legal hiring at all.


Hang in there. I'm a big believer that things don't work out for a reason. Perhaps something better is in store for you. Just keep hustling.

As for your dad, just remind yourself that you know what you're doing. When I wasn't getting interviews after over 100 apps, my mom basically told me something must be wrong with me. Because you know, that makes sense.

Hang in there, bro.

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bjsesq
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bjsesq » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:05 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:I didn't get the school-funded fellowship that would have set me up in Portland. Two of the four people on the selection committee had told me I had an extremely good shot at one of the awards, so I'm pretty devastated. They must have HATED my interview (which was not my best, I admit.) Just spent 20 minutes in tears on the phone to my dad, who is sympathetic and supportive but does not understand legal hiring at all.

Sorry to hear this, Rink

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rinkrat19
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:10 pm

bjsesq wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:I didn't get the school-funded fellowship that would have set me up in Portland. Two of the four people on the selection committee had told me I had an extremely good shot at one of the awards, so I'm pretty devastated. They must have HATED my interview (which was not my best, I admit.) Just spent 20 minutes in tears on the phone to my dad, who is sympathetic and supportive but does not understand legal hiring at all.

Sorry to hear this, Rink
Thanks, boo.
Can't wait to go see D.D. for a career advising appt on Monday. He was on the committee. :? I'm sure that won't be awkward at all.

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Pleasye
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:14 pm

Really sorry to hear that Rink.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:32 pm

I'm sorry to hear that rink.

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UnamSanctam
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby UnamSanctam » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:05 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:I didn't get the school-funded fellowship that would have set me up in Portland. Two of the four people on the selection committee had told me I had an extremely good shot at one of the awards, so I'm pretty devastated. They must have HATED my interview (which was not my best, I admit.) Just spent 20 minutes in tears on the phone to my dad, who is sympathetic and supportive but does not understand legal hiring at all.

Fuck. It's so shitty to get your hopes up when it's not a nearly guaranteed thing. Sorry about that shit.

Anonymous User wrote:When I wasn't getting interviews after over 100 apps, my mom basically told me something must be wrong with me. Because you know, that makes sense.


My mom asked me if the fact that I'm a fat is deterring me from getting a job. But she did it really delicately because she thinks I'm sensitive or something. :lol: Naturally, I dropped about 50 lbs to test her theory, but no job resulted. So I put it back on. I figure I'm gonna need to live off of it after I graduate and can't afford to buy groceries.

pattyw2008
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby pattyw2008 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:39 pm

Parents and people outside of law school I have no idea how hard it is to get a job. I do part-time at shoe store to help pay for school and my DM said I should just move to Los Angeles because there are tons of attorneys there... it should be easy. :roll: Others say just start your own firm! They don't realize starting your own firm requires money.. money that a shoe store won't give me.

I know other students in my class have had their parents tell them law school was the biggest mistake they could have made and have ruined there lives.

Isn't great to have such supportive, well-intentioned people??

kykiske
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kykiske » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:47 pm

Some of the starkest things I've heard arose out of conversations with 0Ls.

"I heard 99% of us start out at $100K"; "I want to start out exclusively litigating constitutional claims before the U.S. Supreme Court"; and my favorite, "I want to start out at the UN focusing on international human rights."

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:48 pm

pattyw2008 wrote:Parents and people outside of law school I have no idea how hard it is to get a job. I do part-time at shoe store to help pay for school and my DM said I should just move to Los Angeles because there are tons of attorneys there... it should be easy. :roll: Others say just start your own firm! They don't realize starting your own firm requires money.. money that a shoe store won't give me.

I know other students in my class have had their parents tell them law school was the biggest mistake they could have made and have ruined there lives.

Isn't great to have such supportive, well-intentioned people??


I don't waste my time talking to my parents about the legal market. This is why I call every 3 months or so.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:20 am

rinkrat19 wrote:I didn't get the school-funded fellowship that would have set me up in Portland. Two of the four people on the selection committee had told me I had an extremely good shot at one of the awards, so I'm pretty devastated. They must have HATED my interview (which was not my best, I admit.) Just spent 20 minutes in tears on the phone to my dad, who is sympathetic and supportive but does not understand legal hiring at all.


Oh no, rink! So sorry to hear. :( Hopefully something better is in the pipeline for you.

And yes, I feel you on parents who don't understand legal hiring at all. My parents tell me repeatedly to just go the solo practitioner route. :roll:

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snowpeach06
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:39 am

Question: I need to know how to explain wanting a job to re-consider me after I rejected their offer.

Story: My first job out of law school went out of business. I finally got two offers in the same week, however, I had verbally accepted the offer at my current job, before I got this one, and decided not to reneg (also, this job pays way more). However, my current job is a bad fit - I hate it, and my employers hate me. I think they are going to fire me in June. I saw that as of April 8th the other job i was offered was reposted. I figured it wouldn't hurt to contact them. How do I sell it? I know that it looks awful to have a brief stint on a resume no matter what. A few options:

Although the decision was difficult, I was not able to accept your initial offer because I had already made a verbal commitment to work for another organization. Since that time, it's become clear that your organization would have been a much better fit, and is much more closely aligned with my career goals. (This is the stretching the truth version)

Although the decision was difficult, I was not able to accept your initial offer because I had already made a verbal commitment to work for another organization. Despite my best efforts to honor that commitment, it has become clear to both me and my current employers that it is not an ideal fit. As such, I am looking to find another policy-related position. (The Honest version)

Version three: say nothing and let her wonder.

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anon sequitur
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby anon sequitur » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:00 am

Definitely the first version. The line about your employers feeling like you don't fit sounds really, really bad. I think it's not stretching much to say that your career goals include not getting fired/working for a company you hate. Everyone knows these sorts of things are going to be spun in the most positive way possible, so if your write it so that it sounds bad for you, that makes things even worse.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Holly Golightly » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:04 am

First version, no question.

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snowpeach06
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:06 am

Any credit to version three? I say, I was so impressed with them because blah, my skills are blah, and i'm happy to answer any questions they may have?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:59 am

had a second around interview with a partner at a firm yesterday. I did not register the bar at that state. At the end of the interview, I asked about the timeline, and told the partner that the deadline to register for the July bar is April 30. He told me the firm was aware of that, and would have meeting to discuss on next Monday or Tuesday and make the decision before next Wednesday (April 29).

Then, I went home and wrote thank you email. This morning, I got the partner's response (never expected that!), but in the email, he told me that they will discuss and be back to me within next 2 weeks.

Should I mention the bar issue again in the reply? Or he just replied to inform me the change of the timeline?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Devlin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Devlin » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:01 am

I like version because it reminds them that they already like you and the situation simply did not work out. Hopefully they will respect that you didn't want to reneg on an offer. They may think more highly of you for it.




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