The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:13 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it dishonest on a resume not to mention that "employment" is volunteer/unpaid?


Well if your title is volunteer what else are you going to put?


I don't think many positions, even unpaid, have the title "volunteer."

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:03 pm

I think any legal employer reviewing a resume is going to realize that unless you work for a firm or have a fellowship attached to the experience, law student work is unpaid. Government and public interest internships are almost always unpaid. If it says intern or extern that will be clear. But the employers won't care.

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Pleasye
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:09 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think any legal employer reviewing a resume is going to realize that unless you work for a firm or have a fellowship attached to the experience, law student work is unpaid. Government and public interest internships are almost always unpaid. If it says intern or extern that will be clear. But the employers won't care.

Yeah this. Whether or not you were paid is not important, it's what you did at the job.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:38 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it dishonest on a resume not to mention that "employment" is volunteer/unpaid?


Well if your title is volunteer what else are you going to put?


I don't think many positions, even unpaid, have the title "volunteer."


Yeah, that's why I would like to title myself as "Law Clerk" instead of "Volunteer" so it conceals that fact that I was not getting paid directly by the employer.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it dishonest on a resume not to mention that "employment" is volunteer/unpaid?


Well if your title is volunteer what else are you going to put?


I don't think many positions, even unpaid, have the title "volunteer."


Yeah, that's why I would like to title myself as "Law Clerk" instead of "Volunteer" so it conceals that fact that I was not getting paid directly by the employer.

What was your actual title?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:58 pm

What was your actual title?[/quote]

Either pro bono volunteer or intern. "Law Clerk" sounds more substantial/weighty though, and less like I'm an indentured servant.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:15 pm

I wouldn't make up a different title than the one you had, but I also don't think it matters. Employers aren't going to look at the work you did differently based on whether you got paid or not.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:20 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I wouldn't make up a different title than the one you had, but I also don't think it matters. Employers aren't going to look at the work you did differently based on whether you got paid or not.


This. Just put whatever the job title was posted as when you applied for it and no employer is going to care.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:23 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I wouldn't make up a different title than the one you had, but I also don't think it matters. Employers aren't going to look at the work you did differently based on whether you got paid or not.


This. Just put whatever the job title was posted as when you applied for it and no employer is going to care.


So a string of short-term unpaid gigs is not going to be a red flag?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:24 pm

That's what law students generally do.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I wouldn't make up a different title than the one you had, but I also don't think it matters. Employers aren't going to look at the work you did differently based on whether you got paid or not.


This. Just put whatever the job title was posted as when you applied for it and no employer is going to care.


So a string of short-term unpaid gigs is not going to be a red flag?


That's is what virtually every single law student's resume looks like. Unpaid positions are far from unusual (I would even suspect the norm) for law students, and most positions are necessarily short-term (whether it be year-long, semester-long, summer-long, etc.).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:38 pm

I had an interview a few weeks back with a very nice mid-sized firm in my city and they just got back to me asking if I would like to go to lunch to meet some more of the attorneys in the firm. What should I plan on wearing? Is this the sort of thing I should wear a suit for? Or business casual?

If it matters any, the firm is generally business-casual unless they have clients or court proceedings, in which case it is obviously suits and the like. Also, I don't yet know where they plan on going (though I imagine it will be an ordinary downtown restaurant).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:50 pm

When in doubt, suit up.

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Devlin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Devlin » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:12 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:I had an interview a few weeks back with a very nice mid-sized firm in my city and they just got back to me asking if I would like to go to lunch to meet some more of the attorneys in the firm. What should I plan on wearing? Is this the sort of thing I should wear a suit for? Or business casual?

If it matters any, the firm is generally business-casual unless they have clients or court proceedings, in which case it is obviously suits and the like. Also, I don't yet know where they plan on going (though I imagine it will be an ordinary downtown restaurant).

Suit it up. You would hate to be underdressed but you wouldn't mind if you were overdressed slightly. Good luck! Don't order something messy!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby FSK » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:20 pm

Devlin wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:I had an interview a few weeks back with a very nice mid-sized firm in my city and they just got back to me asking if I would like to go to lunch to meet some more of the attorneys in the firm. What should I plan on wearing? Is this the sort of thing I should wear a suit for? Or business casual?

If it matters any, the firm is generally business-casual unless they have clients or court proceedings, in which case it is obviously suits and the like. Also, I don't yet know where they plan on going (though I imagine it will be an ordinary downtown restaurant).

Suit it up. You would hate to be underdressed but you wouldn't mind if you were overdressed slightly. Good luck! Don't order something messy!


Cut the average - wear a more casual suit/shoe combination. Light grey suit with walnut shoes & belt would probably be good. White shirt plus a less traditional tie color (not blue or burgundy/red) would make a nice combo.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby El Pollito » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:33 pm

I'd dress like you would for an interview (dark suit, white shirt, inoffensive tie).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:40 pm

El Pollito wrote:I'd dress like you would for an interview (dark suit, white shirt, inoffensive tie).

Yep.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JohannDeMann » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:47 pm

Pleasye wrote:
El Pollito wrote:I'd dress like you would for an interview (dark suit, white shirt, inoffensive tie).

Yep.


Yeah I had one of these and this is what I did. Everyone else was in bizcaz but I just put the coat on the back of the chair during the lunch. I would have felt weird wearing anything less than suit. Wearing a non traditional tie seems like the worst of both worlds. If you feel weird wearing the suit I'd go suit with no tie as that's more the norm these days, but I'd strongly recommend the normal suit get up.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:31 pm

Thanks everyone for the tips! Sounds like the consensus is to go with the suit. Makes sense. I suppose even worst case scenario (everyone else dressed casually when I walk in with a suit) isn't that bad compared to the alternative.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:56 am

2 interviews last weekend with a big firm and a small boutique. I left both interviews feeling pretty good, but I've already been called from the big firm with a rejection due to a lack of experience (why the fuck bring me in if I lacked enough experience?) even though my qualifications literally fit this position perfectly. I'm fearful that the other firm will soon follow with a similar rejection. I feel soooo fucked right now.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:2 interviews last weekend with a big firm and a small boutique. I left both interviews feeling pretty good, but I've already been called from the big firm with a rejection due to a lack of experience (why the fuck bring me in if I lacked enough experience?) even though my qualifications literally fit this position perfectly. I'm fearful that the other firm will soon follow with a similar rejection. I feel soooo fucked right now.


That is odd. I've always been under the assumption that if you're brought in for an interview, you've got what you need on paper and it is just an evaluation of your personality.

I wouldn't worry too much though--being denied for lack of experience after an interview is almost certainly the exception and not the norm. And in either case, at least you're getting interviews! So you're doing something right in that regard!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:30 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:I wouldn't worry too much though--being denied for lack of experience after an interview is almost certainly the exception and not the norm. And in either case, at least you're getting interviews! So you're doing something right in that regard!


It happens, even for jobs advertised as entry level, and it really sucks. Granted my experience of being rejected in such a scenario comes from small law/shit law jobs where mentoring and teaching can (and often do) take a back seat to motions churning. Billing takes a hit when you have to train. Many small law/shit law attorneys would rather make money billing and hire accordingly.

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El Pollito
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby El Pollito » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:49 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2 interviews last weekend with a big firm and a small boutique. I left both interviews feeling pretty good, but I've already been called from the big firm with a rejection due to a lack of experience (why the fuck bring me in if I lacked enough experience?) even though my qualifications literally fit this position perfectly. I'm fearful that the other firm will soon follow with a similar rejection. I feel soooo fucked right now.


That is odd. I've always been under the assumption that if you're brought in for an interview, you've got what you need on paper and it is just an evaluation of your personality.

I wouldn't worry too much though--being denied for lack of experience after an interview is almost certainly the exception and not the norm. And in either case, at least you're getting interviews! So you're doing something right in that regard!

you'd think so, but it's really common to be brought in for a position that you aren't qualified for and it becomes uncomfortably apparent during the interview.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby CaptainLeela » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:16 pm

El Pollito wrote:you'd think so, but it's really common to be brought in for a position that you aren't qualified for and it becomes uncomfortably apparent during the interview.

The strangest interviews I ever sat through was for a legal assistant position (prior to law school) where they insisted on conducting parts of the interview in French. I don't speak French, don't list French on my resume, but...that's close to Spanish, right? So I could make that work if I like, really wanted the job and bootstrapped? Everyone was unhappy by the end of the interview.

Good luck anon, I hope things work out with boutique!!

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:10 pm

What is the approach to following up with a thank you after a lunch interview? And if it is ok to do so, is it ok to reiterate why you would be a good fit for the job?




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