The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:56 pm

Hey guys, I've been firmly in the Vale since about a month ago, when I was officially no-offered by the medium sized firm I've worked for through law school. My old firm has been helping alot, and I've been networking pretty hard, but that stuff is slowing to a halt. I've developed some decent prospects, but I won't know anything firm on them until the bar exam rolls around. Nevertheless, the anxiety is absolutely killing me... I hate to grovel for encouragement, but I feel like I need something reassuring to hold onto or else I'm going to lose all motivation to find a job (and, lets face it, to graduate and pass the bar).

P.S. -- What time in the day is too late to send out cold emails to firms?

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jessuf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:32 pm

El Pollito wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What kind of stats do you need to transfer to a lower ranked (TT/TTT) school?

oh hey bluelotus

this would make me so happy

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:20 am

Anyone else thinking of applying for the Peace Corps? Will prior AmeriCorps experience be a "bump"? (Did City Year in 2010-11)

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JoanSloan
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JoanSloan » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:13 am

On the page number question, let's not fool ourselves into thinking if you do steps 1, 2, and 3, you get certain results a, b, and c. Really, the decision to trash a resume will hinge on a lot more factors than just resume length. For example, competition. A lot more (and more competitive applicants) means HR is looking for any reason to trash. It could be page length, it could be journal type, it could be school.

It's a highly unpredictable and situation-specific process.

That being said, I think relevance (or lack thereof) should be more of a guiding principle. I.e.: if your resume is one page and you're not including information relevant to the position; or, if your resume is more than one page, but you have a lot of time/space wasting fluff (because it makes you feel important).

Who knows, really. I've gotten interviews where people focus on the most unlikely portion of my resume, and some where they're turned off by the extra info.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Stanford4Me » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:46 pm

Motion for a 2 hour ban for anyone who brings up resume length again.

Anon above who recently entered the vale, I don't at all intend to sound cliche but the consistent theme in this thread has been that if you stick to it, even when it sucks and when you're not sure where your next prospect is coming from. It's tough, but do your best to stay positive -- find someone you're comfortable sharing your stress and anxiety with. That goes a long way helping you cope.

Definitely wishing you the best. 6 months from now you'll be working and today will be a thing of the past.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:49 pm

But BlueLotus wants to know if she can have a 100 page resume and just bury her degree-granting school on page 57 in a footnote

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:56 pm

In the legal profession employers value brevity, so the 2-page resume may get dinged if it's obvious it could have fit into 1 page. Employers don't want to read a 30 page memo if you could've written it in 15.

The whole thing with Blue Lotus was an endeavor to transition it into a conversation about how her school dealt her an injustice. I've been following her posts for a while, and hope she's well in advance of returning next year. It would be fruitful if she is able to secure a job.

I'm anonymous because my profile is trackable. While I have empathy for her, I don't think it's smart for my professional interests to be associated with that situation.

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Devlin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Devlin » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:56 pm

Busted out of the Vale this morning. Long time poster in this thread (almost always anon).

Short synopsis - had a great clerkship but got no offered because of financial reasons. Mass mailed like a MOFO and got my position through that. V100 firm doing the type of practice I wanted.

Good luck to everyone still in this thread. I'm a 2015 grad so I feel for those 2014 grads in here. The stress is overwhelming at times but just know that when you do bust out of the Vale it's going to be a great day.

One bit of advice, if you can stomach the risk, and this may only apply to 2015 grads. Don't jump on the first offer you get (unless you obv like it). I received an offer from another firm, a very small firm, but didn't have a good feeling about it so I turned it down. There was significant risk in that move and it paid off.

PM if I can help any of y'all.

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Pleasye
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:32 pm

Congratulations!!

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:46 pm

Pleasye wrote:Congratulations!!

jamesm722
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jamesm722 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:13 pm

I'm hoping mass-mail works for me. It's good seeing that people are successful with getting jobs here. I just mass mailed over 1,000 firms. Had been compiling the spreadsheets for a while by region and practice type. As a 3L, I feel like the next 6-8 months are going to suck so bad (bar, waiting for results, figuring out what to do).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:53 am

If you're a 3L or a grad, should the experience section go before the education section? I want to emphasize my experience while de-emphasizing my shitty school.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:06 am

I've never seen a student resume with experience before education; I've only seen people who've been out in practice for a while do that.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:10 am

Devlin wrote:Busted out of the Vale this morning. Long time poster in this thread (almost always anon).

Short synopsis - had a great clerkship but got no offered because of financial reasons. Mass mailed like a MOFO and got my position through that. V100 firm doing the type of practice I wanted.

Good luck to everyone still in this thread. I'm a 2015 grad so I feel for those 2014 grads in here. The stress is overwhelming at times but just know that when you do bust out of the Vale it's going to be a great day.

One bit of advice, if you can stomach the risk, and this may only apply to 2015 grads. Don't jump on the first offer you get (unless you obv like it). I received an offer from another firm, a very small firm, but didn't have a good feeling about it so I turned it down. There was significant risk in that move and it paid off.

PM if I can help any of y'all.


Congrats!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby beariful » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If you're a 3L or a grad, should the experience section go before the education section? I want to emphasize my experience while de-emphasizing my shitty school.


I did this on my resume for the same reason and I don't think it hurt me, but I also worked throughout all of law school so I didn't have any gaps in my work experience.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:29 pm

Is it dishonest on a resume not to mention that "employment" is volunteer/unpaid?

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worldtraveler
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it dishonest on a resume not to mention that "employment" is volunteer/unpaid?


Well if your title is volunteer what else are you going to put?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:32 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it dishonest on a resume not to mention that "employment" is volunteer/unpaid?


Well if your title is volunteer what else are you going to put?


Law Clerk or Legal Intern sounds better?

I'm just concerned that most if not all of my legal experience has been uncompensated and that employers won't take me seriously as a result.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:48 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it dishonest on a resume not to mention that "employment" is volunteer/unpaid?


Well if your title is volunteer what else are you going to put?


Don't put that it is volunteer on the resume. If they ask during the interview, then divulge that information at that time.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it dishonest on a resume not to mention that "employment" is volunteer/unpaid?

I don't think so. My public interest job is listed as "intern." Anyone who sees where I worked can figure out that it was for free.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lwoods » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it dishonest on a resume not to mention that "employment" is volunteer/unpaid?


Well if your title is volunteer what else are you going to put?


Law Clerk or Legal Intern sounds better?

I'm just concerned that most if not all of my legal experience has been uncompensated and that employers won't take me seriously as a result.


Put whatever your title is. Positions like judicial externships are usually, if not always, unpaid. I'm pretty sure employers know that.

Did you hold those positions while in school or after graduation? Did you have to apply and go through a selection process or did you simply sign up / show up?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:20 pm

Lwoods wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is it dishonest on a resume not to mention that "employment" is volunteer/unpaid?


Well if your title is volunteer what else are you going to put?


Law Clerk or Legal Intern sounds better?

I'm just concerned that most if not all of my legal experience has been uncompensated and that employers won't take me seriously as a result.


Put whatever your title is. Positions like judicial externships are usually, if not always, unpaid. I'm pretty sure employers know that.

Did you hold those positions while in school or after graduation? Did you have to apply and go through a selection process or did you simply sign up / show up?


I held those positions before graduation. I had to apply by sending resume/cover letter and interviewing for most of the positions. I'm just worried that employers will see a string of unpaid "jobs" and immediately trash my resume. I have received stipends/fellowships but thanks to shitboomery I have never in my life been actually paid by a legal employer.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I held those positions before graduation. I had to apply by sending resume/cover letter and interviewing for most of the positions. I'm just worried that employers will see a string of unpaid "jobs" and immediately trash my resume. I have received stipends/fellowships but thanks to shitboomery I have never in my life been actually paid by a legal employer.


It's not going to hurt you to state how you developed a deeper skill set while in law school, unpaid or not. Focus on spinning your resume (and interviews) in that manner, emphasizing what results you were able to achieve. As for people trashing your resume, it's impersonal but inevitable. Get used to it and try to not take it personally.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:55 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I held those positions before graduation. I had to apply by sending resume/cover letter and interviewing for most of the positions. I'm just worried that employers will see a string of unpaid "jobs" and immediately trash my resume. I have received stipends/fellowships but thanks to shitboomery I have never in my life been actually paid by a legal employer.


It's not going to hurt you to state how you developed a deeper skill set while in law school, unpaid or not. Focus on spinning your resume (and interviews) in that manner, emphasizing what results you were able to achieve. As for people trashing your resume, it's impersonal but inevitable. Get used to it and try to not take it personally.


Thanks. That's a good perspective to have. It's hard to feel confident about yourself when your labor is not even worth a penny to your "employers".

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If you're a 3L or a grad, should the experience section go before the education section? I want to emphasize my experience while de-emphasizing my shitty school.


I think it is a bit strange, but wouldn't be something to get you automatically dinged or anything.

With that said, I would worry about it having an adverse effect. By not having the education section up top, an employer may be confused and specifically seek it out (wondering why it wasn't where it belongs), thus focusing on something they may have otherwise glazed over.




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