The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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nevdash
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby nevdash » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:12 am

los blancos wrote:
son_of_ben wrote:Just got $1800 for BarBri in a state where sticker price is $3500 (I imagine that is what all standard tuition is, though).

These reps want to make a sale, so you need to play hardball and say you are thinking about switching to a cheaper service. Also, don't feel bad saying "you gave my friend this price, so I know you can do better." There initial offer to me was $3000 with"Leadership" and "Public Interest" scholarships, but after threatening to leave three or four times, I saved myself a nice piece of change.


Is this typical? I got $400 off (so down to $2800) and then just signed up and paid the $250 deposit. Is it worth playing hardball? We don't have Themis in my state.

I don't know if this made a difference, but I just filled out out of the tuition assistance form and then called them a couple of days later saying that I needed to know how much they were going to give me before I could decide whether to sign up. The next day, I looked on my account and saw that they gave me $1,200 off. But I'm taking California, which is like $4,200, so they had more room to wiggle.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby los blancos » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
los blancos wrote:
son_of_ben wrote:Just got $1800 for BarBri in a state where sticker price is $3500 (I imagine that is what all standard tuition is, though).

These reps want to make a sale, so you need to play hardball and say you are thinking about switching to a cheaper service. Also, don't feel bad saying "you gave my friend this price, so I know you can do better." There initial offer to me was $3000 with"Leadership" and "Public Interest" scholarships, but after threatening to leave three or four times, I saved myself a nice piece of change.


Is this typical? I got $400 off (so down to $2800) and then just signed up and paid the $250 deposit. Is it worth playing hardball? We don't have Themis in my state.


Yes. I am paying 1350, and I'm splitting the bonus from refer a friend, so I'm going to end up paying 1100. It costs them next to nothing to bring on an additional person, so your sign up is almost pure profit. The fact that you don't have Themis to use as leverage kind of sucks, but you might be able to go between Barbri and Kaplan and get a bidding war going. You might also see if you can sign up for a state where Themis offers a course, then see if you can switch to the state you want at the same price. Or you could use self-study as leverage. You can save a $1000 here, man.


I might try this, since I only signed up on Friday, and the contract says there's a three-day refund period (even for the 'nonrefundable' $250).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:42 pm

Had a phone screener last week for a position at a big law firm in a secondary market. The position is in an area of law that I don't necessarily have a background in, but the practice area seems extremely interesting.

I thought the interview went pretty well and that the interviewer and I had made a meaningful connection. We talked a lot about my academic record and what I am currently doing and how it might help me in the position of interest. The interviewer told me about next steps and the firms timeline for getting this position up and running. No call back yet but they got back to me late last week asking if I had bar membership in the firm's jurisdiction.

I feel good about the interview, but who really knows what the outcome will be. I feel like it might be a ding since I haven't heard anything yet (they want somebody by the beginning of the summer). The wait (and job search) continues for now fellow bros and sisters in the Vale...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:16 pm

So what does everyone think about Insurance Defense as an option? I know it's not total shit law (i.e. doc review) but would it taint you down the road when looking to maybe maybe maybe move up to a better place/pay?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:17 pm

Heard a rumor that Latham was looking for more fall associates in NY. Still need top grades, etc., but might be worth a look

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:40 pm

Did anyone who was no offered from an SA due to a grade drop have any luck circling back around after you had a semester or two of improvement?

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So what does everyone think about Insurance Defense as an option? I know it's not total shit law (i.e. doc review) but would it taint you down the road when looking to maybe maybe maybe move up to a better place/pay?


It depends. There are some pretty reputable ID shops. For decades, the heart of Ulmer & Berne, which is an AmLaw200 firm, was ID work. If it's some shit mill that just churns car accident cases, it's going to be harder to move on from it, but I figure it's possible if you get in good experience while you're there.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:44 pm

TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So what does everyone think about Insurance Defense as an option? I know it's not total shit law (i.e. doc review) but would it taint you down the road when looking to maybe maybe maybe move up to a better place/pay?


It depends. There are some pretty reputable ID shops. For decades, the heart of Ulmer & Berne, which is an AmLaw200 firm, was ID work. If it's some shit mill that just churns car accident cases, it's going to be harder to move on from it, but I figure it's possible if you get in good experience while you're there.


When you say "harder to move on" do you mean because the work doesn't offer a lot of exit opportunities or because the type of work reflects poorly upon you?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So what does everyone think about Insurance Defense as an option? I know it's not total shit law (i.e. doc review) but would it taint you down the road when looking to maybe maybe maybe move up to a better place/pay?


It depends. There are some pretty reputable ID shops. For decades, the heart of Ulmer & Berne, which is an AmLaw200 firm, was ID work. If it's some shit mill that just churns car accident cases, it's going to be harder to move on from it, but I figure it's possible if you get in good experience while you're there.


When you say "harder to move on" do you mean because the work doesn't offer a lot of exit opportunities or because the type of work reflects poorly upon you?

From what I undersand, ID sucks in part because the clients suck.

Insurers are stingy as fuck they dislike paying for lawyers immensely. This leads to:
1) you doing the "best you can do" with a small budget because insurers won't pay for it. This doesn't actually lend itself to you doing good work
2) ID lends itself to a mill structure because attorneys do the same lol level shit over and over and over

For coverage decisions, normal model is to go to someone else, not their ID bros

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So what does everyone think about Insurance Defense as an option? I know it's not total shit law (i.e. doc review) but would it taint you down the road when looking to maybe maybe maybe move up to a better place/pay?


It depends. There are some pretty reputable ID shops. For decades, the heart of Ulmer & Berne, which is an AmLaw200 firm, was ID work. If it's some shit mill that just churns car accident cases, it's going to be harder to move on from it, but I figure it's possible if you get in good experience while you're there.


When you say "harder to move on" do you mean because the work doesn't offer a lot of exit opportunities or because the type of work reflects poorly upon you?


The former.

If you're at an ID shop and you're getting to do depositions, some non-boilerplate motion practice, and maybe some trial work, then you're getting skills that you can hopefully use to lateral. If you're just changing the names on the same stack of shitpaper and filing it, then you've got nothing to offer other firms. I know some bros who started out doing ID and wound up at more reputable firms. I think it's possible in secondary markets where the local bar is smaller and attorneys at localbiglaw will get to know attorneys at shitlaw firm X.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:59 pm

I know someone that went from ID to biglaw in a secondary market... I think her experience at the appellate level helped. She is now an appellate group partner. HTH

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:28 am

Keep in mind that the ID of 10 years ago is not the ID of today. There's so much case law out there that, excluding bad faith insurance claims, which companies will still pay bank to defend against, the practice isn't particularly demanding. I worked at a well-regarded ID firm before I went to law school and full partners were billing out at $145.

Sad news today fellow vale members; received a clerkship rejection from an interview that I thought I nailed. The judge wrote a personalized and very thoughtful rejection letter, but it's still a rejection letter.

In brighter news, I have another firm interview on Friday, my second in a week! I'm now starting to ponder what the fuck I'm going to do if I graduate without a job. Forsake law entirely? Follow through on the barzam I signed up for? I'm not sure how I want to proceed.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Geist13 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:39 am

No job news. But I saved over $1400 on Barbri today, so I felt good about that.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:Keep in mind that the ID of 10 years ago is not the ID of today. There's so much case law out there that, excluding bad faith insurance claims, which companies will still pay bank to defend against, the practice isn't particularly demanding. I worked at a well-regarded ID firm before I went to law school and full partners were billing out at $145.

Sad news today fellow vale members; received a clerkship rejection from an interview that I thought I nailed. The judge wrote a personalized and very thoughtful rejection letter, but it's still a rejection letter.

In brighter news, I have another firm interview on Friday, my second in a week! I'm now starting to ponder what the fuck I'm going to do if I graduate without a job. Forsake law entirely? Follow through on the barzam I signed up for? I'm not sure how I want to proceed.

Sorry brother

Which barzam bro?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:05 am

TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So what does everyone think about Insurance Defense as an option? I know it's not total shit law (i.e. doc review) but would it taint you down the road when looking to maybe maybe maybe move up to a better place/pay?


It depends. There are some pretty reputable ID shops. For decades, the heart of Ulmer & Berne, which is an AmLaw200 firm, was ID work. If it's some shit mill that just churns car accident cases, it's going to be harder to move on from it, but I figure it's possible if you get in good experience while you're there.


When you say "harder to move on" do you mean because the work doesn't offer a lot of exit opportunities or because the type of work reflects poorly upon you?


The former.

If you're at an ID shop and you're getting to do depositions, some non-boilerplate motion practice, and maybe some trial work, then you're getting skills that you can hopefully use to lateral. If you're just changing the names on the same stack of shitpaper and filing it, then you've got nothing to offer other firms. I know some bros who started out doing ID and wound up at more reputable firms. I think it's possible in secondary markets where the local bar is smaller and attorneys at localbiglaw will get to know attorneys at shitlaw firm X.


So if I'm reading y'all right, an ID firm that does a fair amount of coverage and bad faith claim work (and also some commercial lit) might actually be a pretty good gig? Maybe both in terms of actual work/pay at that firm but also for future lateral hopes?

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:41 am

Shit dude, unless you have other options, take the ID offer if/when you get one

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:39 am

Yo, does this seem as good as it sounds....if so, I'm moving to Montana after graduation!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/09/us/su ... =2&_r=0&hp

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Yo, does this seem as good as it sounds....if so, I'm moving to Montana after graduation!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/09/us/su ... =2&_r=0&hp


"They will receive an annual subsidy of $12,000" - so it doesn't come with a job, it's just that if you can find work in rural Montana, they'll pay back $1000 per month of your student loans. Not a bad deal if you have employment there.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:28 pm

Does anyone know what they are looking for with federal staff attorneys in Atlanta? They keep re-posting the same listing; do they actually have open positions or do they just enjoy resumes? If they have open positions, what in the hell do they want, because I can't imagine they lack for applications?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:47 pm

kalvano wrote:Does anyone know what they are looking for with federal staff attorneys in Atlanta? They keep re-posting the same listing; do they actually have open positions or do they just enjoy resumes? If they have open positions, what in the hell do they want, because I can't imagine they lack for applications?

Dude I see that shit all the time still. No idea why

You still being strung on by your summer firm?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:48 pm

kalvano wrote:Does anyone know what they are looking for with federal staff attorneys in Atlanta? They keep re-posting the same listing; do they actually have open positions or do they just enjoy resumes? If they have open positions, what in the hell do they want, because I can't imagine they lack for applications?


They've been posting that constantly since September. Maybe they just post it year round for some sadistic reason.

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TTH
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:
kalvano wrote:Does anyone know what they are looking for with federal staff attorneys in Atlanta? They keep re-posting the same listing; do they actually have open positions or do they just enjoy resumes? If they have open positions, what in the hell do they want, because I can't imagine they lack for applications?


They've been posting that constantly since September. Maybe they just post it year round for some sadistic reason.


Think of all the death penalty states in the Eleventh Circuit. They probably burn out their staff attorneys on habeus shit.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
los blancos wrote:
son_of_ben wrote:Just got $1800 for BarBri in a state where sticker price is $3500 (I imagine that is what all standard tuition is, though).

These reps want to make a sale, so you need to play hardball and say you are thinking about switching to a cheaper service. Also, don't feel bad saying "you gave my friend this price, so I know you can do better." There initial offer to me was $3000 with"Leadership" and "Public Interest" scholarships, but after threatening to leave three or four times, I saved myself a nice piece of change.


Is this typical? I got $400 off (so down to $2800) and then just signed up and paid the $250 deposit. Is it worth playing hardball? We don't have Themis in my state.


Yes. I am paying 1350, and I'm splitting the bonus from refer a friend, so I'm going to end up paying 1100. It costs them next to nothing to bring on an additional person, so your sign up is almost pure profit. The fact that you don't have Themis to use as leverage kind of sucks, but you might be able to go between Barbri and Kaplan and get a bidding war going. You might also see if you can sign up for a state where Themis offers a course, then see if you can switch to the state you want at the same price. Or you could use self-study as leverage. You can save a $1000 here, man.




Yo guys, is Barbri worth about $400 over Kaplan (online) for X state? I'm on the fence whether I should go with Barbri here seeing that I'm literally going to be broke over this summer....however I just want to pass and I'd feel a bit more comfortable about my chances doing an in-person class over the online thing? :-/

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Coolgrnmen » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sad news today fellow vale members; received a clerkship rejection from an interview that I thought I nailed. The judge wrote a personalized and very thoughtful rejection letter, but it's still a rejection letter.

In brighter news, I have another firm interview on Friday, my second in a week! I'm now starting to ponder what the fuck I'm going to do if I graduate without a job. Forsake law entirely? Follow through on the barzam I signed up for? I'm not sure how I want to proceed.


There are still judges looking? Damn...

gl on your interview(s)!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:36 pm

For bar exam prep: I got my Themis books and they are extremely comprehensive. I have no reason to think I will not receive more than enough information to pass the bar.

BarBri can't possibly be worth it if you have to pay out of pocket.




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