The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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BVest
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:46 am

Lotus, everyone here understands the situation except you. You cannot claim to have a JD but not identify the school that awarded it, no matter how much of shitty feelings you have about that school. That is at best deceptive, but will be perceived as shady or straight out lying by employers.

And don't leave anything to the cover letter that you want someone to read, because this happens all the time: "Cheryl, Dave's stuck in a meeting across town and he was supposed to do this interview with me in two minutes. Can you join me? Here's the resume."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:49 am

BVest wrote:Lotus, everyone here understands the situation except you. You cannot claim to have a JD but not identify the school that awarded it, no matter how much of shitty feelings you have about that school. That is at best deceptive, but will be perceived as shady or straight out lying by employers.

And don't leave anything to the cover letter that you want someone to read, because this happens all the time: "Cheryl, Dave's stuck in a meeting across town and he was supposed to do this interview with me in two minutes. Can you join me? Here's the resume."


How about Linkedin profiles? Do I have to list the degree granting school on that too? Or can I safely leave that off?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:49 am

BlueLotus wrote:Again, I said I could clarify the situation in the cover letter. Solves the problem. "I completed my third year at X law school in Y jurisdiction where I grew up and where my family resided. On [date] I received my JD." I can't have a 2 page resume for all legal employers. That's going to look weird.


THAT'S going to look weird? What's going to look weird is that weird paragraph that appears to be (a) written by someone with really poor writing skills, or (b) hiding something. How do you think that goes down? "I don't know if this person's lying or just can't write, but we should bring them in for an interview to find out."

ETA: As far as a two page resume goes, I worked for almost 18 years before returning to law school. In addition to that, I worked two jobs EACH summer of law school, plus have a semester job on there, list both of my schools (transferred), and list my graduate and undergraduate schools. On one page. If I can have a two page resume, anyone can.
Last edited by BVest on Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tanicius
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tanicius » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:50 am

BlueLotus wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:And the thing is, they won't think you got your JD from the school where you were visiting; they will know that visiting means you didn't get your degree there, and they will wonder if you actually have a JD at all. Your cover letter won't clarify that in any way, if you refuse to be associated with your original school.

But since you're convinced you know best, go for it. Put whatever you want.


No, I will mention in cover letters that I have a JD, without disclosing what school granted the JD. How is that lying?


It's an either or. Either an employer is fooled into hiring you because they erreneously think you got your JD from that school, or they think you are an idiot for leaving off the school where you got your JD. The only alternative possibility to those scenarios is even worse: They figure out what you're doing and blackball you or report you.


Again, I said I could clarify the situation in the cover letter. Solves the problem. "I completed my third year at X law school in Y jurisdiction where I grew up and where my family resided. On [date] I received my JD." I can't have a 2 page resume for all legal employers. That's going to look weird.


It's not as bizarre to have a 2-page resume as it is to leave off the one thing most employers look at before anything else. Not only is it weird, but employers will assume the worst from you (and they are correct to make that assumption, since you've admitted several times why you are doing this).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TooOld4This » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:51 am

BlueLotus wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:And the thing is, they won't think you got your JD from the school where you were visiting; they will know that visiting means you didn't get your degree there, and they will wonder if you actually have a JD at all. Your cover letter won't clarify that in any way, if you refuse to be associated with your original school.

But since you're convinced you know best, go for it. Put whatever you want.


No, I will mention in cover letters that I have a JD, without disclosing what school granted the JD. How is that lying?


Your degree granting institution is relevant information. If it is not on your resume, expect that your application will automatically go in the trash. You can still say that the reason you are visiting at school Y is because you absolutely, 100% are committed to staying in the area forever and ever.

You gain nothing by not disclosing your degree granting school. If you don't disclose it, you will look either careless or like you are trying to hide something. Both of these traits will remove you from consideration.

And on the resume front: I look at resumes from highly accomplished attorneys who have been practicing for many years. They can make their resumes 1 page. As a law student, there is no reason you can't add one more line. If you think you can't, they you haven't put enough thought into how to tailor your resume to potential employers. (Also, the one page rule is not followed that much - again, as a law student, going to 2 pages is most likely the result of not being discerning about what to include, but 2 pages is vastly preferable to not including your degree granting school.)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:52 am

But can I leave off my degree granting school in my Linkedin profile/while speaking to individuals in networking events?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tanicius » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:56 am

BlueLotus wrote:But can I leave off my degree granting school in my Linkedin profile/while speaking to individuals in networking events?


There's no rule about this. But if you leave off your degree-granting school employers will automatically assume the school you have listed is the one you got your JD from. Once they actually ask for your resume, the gig is up. If you want them to assume you're dishonest, keep leaving off the most relevant info employers want to know about you.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TooOld4This » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:56 am

BlueLotus wrote:But can I leave off my degree granting school in my Linkedin profile/while speaking to individuals in networking events?


Not if you don't want to have your ethics or state of mind questioned. You are stuck with your degree granting school for your professional life. There is no way to get around it that will not reflect incredibly poorly on you.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:57 am

Tanicius wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:But can I leave off my degree granting school in my Linkedin profile/while speaking to individuals in networking events?


There's no rule about this. But if you leave off your degree-granting school employers will automatically assume the school you have listed is the one you got your JD from. Once they actually ask for your resume, the gig is up. If you want them to assume you're dishonest, keep leaving off the most relevant info employers want to know about you.


But what if I want no association with the degree granting school? What if it will harm me?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tanicius » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:59 am

BlueLotus wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:But can I leave off my degree granting school in my Linkedin profile/while speaking to individuals in networking events?


There's no rule about this. But if you leave off your degree-granting school employers will automatically assume the school you have listed is the one you got your JD from. Once they actually ask for your resume, the gig is up. If you want them to assume you're dishonest, keep leaving off the most relevant info employers want to know about you.


But what if I want no association with the degree granting school? What if it will harm me?



Tough cookies. I wanted to own a tiger for a pet when I was younger, but alas.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TooOld4This » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:01 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:But can I leave off my degree granting school in my Linkedin profile/while speaking to individuals in networking events?


There's no rule about this. But if you leave off your degree-granting school employers will automatically assume the school you have listed is the one you got your JD from. Once they actually ask for your resume, the gig is up. If you want them to assume you're dishonest, keep leaving off the most relevant info employers want to know about you.


But what if I want no association with the degree granting school? What if it will harm me?


You chose to attend where you chose to attend. Your decision making points where as a 0L and as a 1L (when you could have transfered). Now you have to live with those decisions. You can play up your desire to be in market X and your commitment to it as evidenced by your willingness to visit for 3L, but you cannot walk away from where your degree is actually from.
Last edited by TooOld4This on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:01 pm

BlueLotus wrote:But what if I want no association with the degree granting school?


Then don't give them money when they ask.

BlueLotus wrote:What if it will harm me?


Harm you in particular (like they have dirt on you that you don't want revealed)? Or harm anyone (it's a festering stinkhole that is only associated with bad lawyers or shady ones who try to hide essential information about their professional degree)? Either way, tough. That decision was made when you matriculated and didn't drop out to start over.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:03 pm

BVest wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:But what if I want no association with the degree granting school?


Then don't give them money when they ask.

BlueLotus wrote:What if it will harm me?


Harm you in particular (like they have dirt on you that you don't want revealed)? Or harm anyone (it's a festering stinkhole that is only associated with bad lawyers or shady ones who try to hide essential information about their professional degree)? Either way, tough. That decision was made when you matriculated and didn't drop out to start over.


No, I am concerned that an association with the original school will harm me irreparably in the job hunt. Original school is T30, local schools in the jurisdiction I want to be in are TT/TTT.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:05 pm

You're overthinking this. You have a degree from a well-respected school and you also have ties to the community you want to work in. Include both.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:09 pm

BVest wrote:You're overthinking this. You have a degree from a well-respected school and you also have ties to the community you want to work in. Include both.


I'm worried that my ties to the community won't be sufficient If I'll be competing with the hoardes of students from all the local TT/TTTs. That's why I would prefer to be associated with the local TT/TTT. Employers will question why I went to school in jurisdiction X if I wanted to take the bar in jurisdiction Y.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:11 pm

There's nothing you can do about that now. Also, from the information you've posted elsewhere here, I don't think it will make a huge difference for the cities in question. The weirdness of leaving off your JD-granting institution will far outweigh any concerns it raises about ties, especially if you spend 3L locally.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby homestyle28 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:12 pm

I'm gonna go the other way here on Lotus. No mistake, it's probably dumb to leave off your degree granting institution, and as soon as your employer verifies your education through your transcripts/diploma you'll be fucked...and probably unemployable to anyone who hears about it b/c they'll only verify your info later in the game and it makes you look like a liar, even if you don't think it's lying.

but all that being said, a resume isn't an affidavit, it is a marketing tool. If the best thing about you is the school you were an exchange student at and that's all you want to list, I think it's your prerogative. Just don't lie about it (i.e. clearly state that you were an exchange student from 2014-15 (or whenever), don't say "candidate for juris doctor" under that school, etc.).

You're way overestimating how much your "bad school" will hurt you, but I think you're free to do so.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:13 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:There's nothing you can do about that now. Also, from the information you've posted elsewhere here, I don't think it will make a huge difference for the cities in question. The weirdness of leaving off your JD-granting institution will far outweigh any concerns it raises about ties, especially if you spend 3L locally.


What's better: T30 with ties, or local TT/TTT?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:15 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:There's nothing you can do about that now. Also, from the information you've posted elsewhere here, I don't think it will make a huge difference for the cities in question. The weirdness of leaving off your JD-granting institution will far outweigh any concerns it raises about ties, especially if you spend 3L locally.


What's better: T30 with ties, or local TT/TTT?

Depends entirely on the specific candidate and their total application package, especially their qualifications for a given job. Neither is automatically better or worse. And you will have the local school connection anyway. This is not going to be your problem with getting a job.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:22 pm

When networking, would it be OK/honest to say to attorneys that I attended the local TT/TTT, not mentioning the original school? (since that's the less-damaging school I prefer to be associated with) I am just so worried that my original school will be a scarlet letter.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:23 pm

It won't be. You need to calm down.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:24 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:There's nothing you can do about that now. Also, from the information you've posted elsewhere here, I don't think it will make a huge difference for the cities in question. The weirdness of leaving off your JD-granting institution will far outweigh any concerns it raises about ties, especially if you spend 3L locally.


What's better: T30 with ties, or local TT/TTT?


You ask the dumbest questions. There is no reason why you should leave off your degree granting school in favor of a school that you attended as a visiting school. If you want to highlight ties, then you can put a local address on your resume or indicate that you are from the area by noting that information in the address section. Additionally, employers care about ties, but not to the degree that you think. I've interviewed for jobs in places that I have never been.

Also, the most important way that you would show ties is by taking that state's bar exam. If you are still a 3L then the chances of you landing a job pre-bar are not very high. In closing, quit wasting everyone's time. Put BOTH SCHOOLS on your resume. No one cares that your resume will go to two pages. And if you really need 1 page, then deleting 2-3 bullet points or adjusting the font really isn't that hard. I'm sure your resume is boring and devoid of quantitative accomplishments anyhow.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby socialtwerker24 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:26 pm

I have a few questions:

1. Do you have general jurisdiction or specific jurisdiction?
2. How come you don't wanna acknowledge your degree giving school :( ?
3. Do you like cats? :lol:
4. Have you ever ran up those steps that Rocky did? I bet that'd be so fun...and probably a good workout!
5. Can you teach me strategy?
6. Hiiiiiii
7. Have you tried monster.com?

mod warning: don't troll.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:30 pm

socialtwerker24 wrote:I have a few questions:

1. Do you have general jurisdiction or specific jurisdiction?
2. How come you don't wanna acknowledge your degree giving school :( ?
3. Do you like cats? :lol:
4. Have you ever ran up those steps that Rocky did? I bet that'd be so fun...and probably a good workout!
5. Can you teach me strategy?
6. Hiiiiiii
7. Have you tried monster.com?


I didn't want to acknowledge my degree granting school because thought it will harm me in the job hunt, more than anything. The local TT/TTTs have an established relationship with the local firms/agencies that my original school does not.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby anozira » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:21 pm

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Last edited by anozira on Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.




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