The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any of you struggling on where to take the bar? I've been applying all over but I'm considering just signing up for the state where my job prospects are mostly likely to pan out (strongly considering taking the school's postgrad fellowship to a public interest org). I'm torn between taking the really small stipend offered by the fellowship and kicking ass at the public interest org and seeing what follows from there vs. keep on grinding in hopes of finding a better paying job.

I know that some Valers find jobs well after graduation but it feels like all the deadlines for bar registration, bar prep, etc. are coming at me .


Yes, I am trying to decide where to take the bar. I go to a regional school, and I was thinking of trying to stay in the state since all of the jobs advertised in symplicity are in the state, but I don't think I have the money to afford staying in the state for a long time. I'm going to decide this week which bar I'm going to take.


Most schools have reciprocity where you can use another school's symplicity. But symplicity sucks. Go where you want to practice and there are jobs.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:25 pm

Does anyone know the BYU job bank login info? I tried the one listed in the OP, but it doesn't seem to be working...

bjohnsobf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bjohnsobf » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:46 am

User: jobfind pass: byujobs

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:30 pm

are you screwed if you take a job with a personal injury/insurance defense firm?

i have no interest in doing that work, but it's been almost a year since graduation so i'm not picky. should i just take any full time position and continue applying to new jobs?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:are you screwed if you take a job with a personal injury/insurance defense firm?

i have no interest in doing that work, but it's been almost a year since graduation so i'm not picky. should i just take any full time position and continue applying to new jobs?


I am also interested in this, I know I want to do litigation but I ultimately do not want to do ID. Is it possible to use any litigation experience gained from ID to transfer to another field?

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:are you screwed if you take a job with a personal injury/insurance defense firm?

i have no interest in doing that work, but it's been almost a year since graduation so i'm not picky. should i just take any full time position and continue applying to new jobs?


I am also interested in this, I know I want to do litigation but I ultimately do not want to do ID. Is it possible to use any litigation experience gained from ID to transfer to another field?


THIS.

I have a PI / PD heavy resume, but I'll be meeting with an uncle who does solo immigration / personal injury work in LA and was wondering if it would be smart to clerk for him while waiting for bar results to get back?

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:are you screwed if you take a job with a personal injury/insurance defense firm?

i have no interest in doing that work, but it's been almost a year since graduation so i'm not picky. should i just take any full time position and continue applying to new jobs?


What the hell else are you going to do? Sit on your ass and watch netflix?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:24 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:are you screwed if you take a job with a personal injury/insurance defense firm?

i have no interest in doing that work, but it's been almost a year since graduation so i'm not picky. should i just take any full time position and continue applying to new jobs?


What the hell else are you going to do? Sit on your ass and watch netflix?


Don't really agree with sparty often, but TITCR.

And no, it won't hold you back either. I worked for a PI solo for a year right after getting licensed, then jumped into a boutique firm doing something completely unrelated, and jumped in house shortly after doing purely transactional work. The PI experience would have been much better than a gap of doing nothing.

hiima3L
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:are you screwed if you take a job with a personal injury/insurance defense firm?

i have no interest in doing that work, but it's been almost a year since graduation so i'm not picky. should i just take any full time position and continue applying to new jobs?


I am also interested in this, I know I want to do litigation but I ultimately do not want to do ID. Is it possible to use any litigation experience gained from ID to transfer to another field?


THIS.

I have a PI / PD heavy resume, but I'll be meeting with an uncle who does solo immigration / personal injury work in LA and was wondering if it would be smart to clerk for him while waiting for bar results to get back?


It's unfathomable to me that you (and others ITT) are debating doing nothing vs. doing something less-than-desirable.

It is infinitely better to be employed in some capacity rather than totally unemployed. You can spin any job and the experience you gained from it, but you cannot spin unemployment in any way.

If you don't have a job, take whatever job you can get. You do not have the luxury to be picky at this critical stage in your career. A year or so of unemployment after graduating is incredibly difficult to dig yourself out of.

atheron70
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby atheron70 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:29 pm

hiima3L wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:are you screwed if you take a job with a personal injury/insurance defense firm?

i have no interest in doing that work, but it's been almost a year since graduation so i'm not picky. should i just take any full time position and continue applying to new jobs?


I am also interested in this, I know I want to do litigation but I ultimately do not want to do ID. Is it possible to use any litigation experience gained from ID to transfer to another field?


THIS.

I have a PI / PD heavy resume, but I'll be meeting with an uncle who does solo immigration / personal injury work in LA and was wondering if it would be smart to clerk for him while waiting for bar results to get back?


It's unfathomable to me that you (and others ITT) are debating doing nothing vs. doing something less-than-desirable.

It is infinitely better to be employed in some capacity rather than totally unemployed. You can spin any job and the experience you gained from it, but you cannot spin unemployment in any way.

If you don't have a job, take whatever job you can get. You do not have the luxury to be picky at this critical stage in your career. A year or so of unemployment after graduating is incredibly difficult to dig yourself out of.


I'd agree with pretty much all of this. In my experience so far throughout the application process, MANY firms apart from biglaw are unwilling to train you or simply don't have the time/money to do so. As a result, most of the opportunities posted ask for 1-3 years experience. Now, this shouldn't preclude you from applying to those positions, but even one year of experience doing work that may not be ideal opens these doors for you next year. All of a sudden, you are not under-qualified but rather within the range they are looking for. Of course, there will always be those positions that are pretty much looking for people with a few years of biglaw experience, but bottom line is opportunities will open for you that weren't there this time around.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:06 pm

bjohnsobf wrote:User: jobfind pass: byujobs

Thank you!

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Honeysuckle
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Honeysuckle » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:03 pm

How will employers look at a one year gap between 2L and 3L year? I finished my 2L year but had to take time off for health reasons. In the interim I have been volunteering for legal aid, so no gap on my resume. It just means that I graduate in four years instead of three.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:20 pm

How competitive are school-sponsored PI fellowships? What sort of criteria are they looking for? Interested in Berkeley Law Foundation.
Last edited by BlueLotus on Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rinkrat19
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rinkrat19 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:24 pm

BlueLotus wrote:How competitive are school-sponsored PI fellowships? What sort of criteria are they looking for?

I imagine this varies hugely by school and by specific fellowship.

Probably a common theme is a demonstrated commitment to PI (pre law school, law school summers, volunteering, clinic, etc.)

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:27 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:How competitive are school-sponsored PI fellowships? What sort of criteria are they looking for?

I imagine this varies hugely by school and by specific fellowship.

Probably a common theme is a demonstrated commitment to PI (pre law school, law school summers, volunteering, clinic, etc.)


My school just started offering them last year. It's about $30K/year. Have mediocre grades and no journal/moot court but strong demonstrated commitment to PI thru internships and pro bono.

Berkeley Law Foundation offers fellowships to students from other schools. I was wondering if anyone had insider information about what they are looking for.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:54 pm

Really need some advices from you guys.

I graduated last May and in a fellowship position funded by law school right now. Now I am offered a law clerk position in a small firm. The partner just don't make enough money to pay the associate level salary, so the firm has the so called "law clerk" position. Whether I can be an associate in the future really depends on the business of the firm, but it seems to be growing. Should I take the offer? or stay in the fellowship program and continue looking for a attorney job?

Some background info: T50 law school, top 20%, in the NYC area.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Really need some advices from you guys.

I graduated last May and in a fellowship position funded by law school right now. Now I am offered a law clerk position in a small firm. The partner just don't make enough money to pay the associate level salary, so the firm has the so called "law clerk" position. Whether I can be an associate in the future really depends on the business of the firm, but it seems to be growing. Should I take the offer? or stay in the fellowship program and continue looking for a attorney job?

Some background info: T50 law school, top 20%, in the NYC area.


How would we know? We don't know when the fellowship ends? The cost difference between the two jobs? The work that you would perform? Other opportunities in your pipeline, etc.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:09 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really need some advices from you guys.

I graduated last May and in a fellowship position funded by law school right now. Now I am offered a law clerk position in a small firm. The partner just don't make enough money to pay the associate level salary, so the firm has the so called "law clerk" position. Whether I can be an associate in the future really depends on the business of the firm, but it seems to be growing. Should I take the offer? or stay in the fellowship program and continue looking for a attorney job?

Some background info: T50 law school, top 20%, in the NYC area.


How would we know? We don't know when the fellowship ends? The cost difference between the two jobs? The work that you would perform? Other opportunities in your pipeline, etc.


The fellowship ends in this September. For the law clerk position, I will basically do the same work as the associate attorney, plus some paralegal work. The pay is pretty low, as you can image, but I don't have any loan, as long as it can cover my living cost, I am fine with that. I started looking for jobs in this January after I got admitted. Had three interviews so far. This is the forth one.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really need some advices from you guys.

I graduated last May and in a fellowship position funded by law school right now. Now I am offered a law clerk position in a small firm. The partner just don't make enough money to pay the associate level salary, so the firm has the so called "law clerk" position. Whether I can be an associate in the future really depends on the business of the firm, but it seems to be growing. Should I take the offer? or stay in the fellowship program and continue looking for a attorney job?

Some background info: T50 law school, top 20%, in the NYC area.


How would we know? We don't know when the fellowship ends? The cost difference between the two jobs? The work that you would perform? Other opportunities in your pipeline, etc.


The fellowship ends in this September. For the law clerk position, I will basically do the same work as the associate attorney, plus some paralegal work. The pay is pretty low, as you can image, but I don't have any loan, as long as it can cover my living cost, I am fine with that. I started looking for jobs in this January after I got admitted. Had three interviews so far. This is the forth one.


Both jobs sound like shit. I would take the one that pays the most and continue looking.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:27 pm

I would, at minimum, ask to be called an "associate" even at the reduced pay just so you can get attorney experience on a resume and then flip asap when something better comes up.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:45 pm

Did anyone apply to the Chicago Department of Law? Curious if anyone has heard anything yet (after going through the crazy online and snail mail application process).

Ellen_1224
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Ellen_1224 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:53 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:I would, at minimum, ask to be called an "associate" even at the reduced pay just so you can get attorney experience on a resume and then flip asap when something better comes up.


Actually, I asked them about this during the interview. An "associate" title seems impossible at this point, because there are two "law clerks" in the firm right now, no way they can offer me the associate title, without promoting the other two...

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:05 am

Ellen_1224 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I would, at minimum, ask to be called an "associate" even at the reduced pay just so you can get attorney experience on a resume and then flip asap when something better comes up.


Actually, I asked them about this during the interview. An "associate" title seems impossible at this point, because there are two "law clerks" in the firm right now, no way they can offer me the associate title, without promoting the other two...


So the partners can't afford to pay an associate-level salart but can keep hiring law clerks willing to do associate work?

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Tanicius
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tanicius » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:46 am

BarbellDreams wrote:I would, at minimum, ask to be called an "associate" even at the reduced pay just so you can get attorney experience on a resume and then flip asap when something better comes up.


Does it honestly matter for job-seeking purposes what your boss calls you as opposed to what you really do? "Associate" is a term of art that means specific status and job duties at a firm. An associate is a licensed attorney who handles legal work for a law firm without having an equity interest in the firm or managerial authority. If you are a licensed attorney and you handle legal work, I don't think it's dishonest to put down on your resume that you are an associate of that firm. It is actually the law firm that is being dishonest. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too by asking you to do associate-type work but paying you at the rate of a law clerk. It's a predatory employment practice meant to keep you at a disadvantage so you won't leave for better pastures. What actually makes your job that of a law clerk though? If Google said it was going to stop calling its programmers "programmers" and instead call them "coffee interns," do you think its employees would give a shit? If they're coding programs all day, they're putting on their resumes that they are programmers, not coffee bussers.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:09 am

If you transfer to another school as a visiting student for your 3L year, what school should you put on your resume? The visiting school is in the market I want to be in.




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