The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:48 am

BVest wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I guess I should just email the recruiter and ask if this is a rejection from my interview or through the application?


I'm not sure I'd do that. (And I wouldn't expect an immediate response to the writing samples).


How do you think I should proceed then? I started drafting the email to the recruiter and it sounds weird.


The email generically discussed that the firm could not proceed with my "application." That just sounds weird since I met with the firm for an interview.

I have received a lot of rejection emails and letters while in law school - in my experience most firms are more specific on the rejection.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:13 pm

Wait and keep your powder dry. No matter how you draft that email it's going to be awkward, so don't. There's no reason to call their attention to the fact that they may have alternately liked you and not liked you, especially if there's a chance they're still considering one of your applications.

I once had to hire for a position for which I'd received 360 applications (and that was a starting admin position paying about 170% of min. wage at the time). I started by sorting them into piles of reject, definitely interview, and maybe interview if the definitely pile doesn't get big enough/yield results; I then sorted within the top pile in order of how interested I was. There were definitely some duplicates, and I tried to weed those out, but there's certainly no guarantee that I did and I could well have put them in different piles.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:21 pm

BVest wrote:Wait and keep your powder dry. No matter how you draft that email it's going to be awkward, so don't. There's no reason to call their attention to the fact that they may have alternately liked you and not liked you, especially if there's a chance they're still considering one of your applications.

Yeah that is probably right.

Now the wait will be even more excruciating. If he does not respond to my email what should my next move be?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
BVest wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I guess I should just email the recruiter and ask if this is a rejection from my interview or through the application?


I'm not sure I'd do that. (And I wouldn't expect an immediate response to the writing samples).


How do you think I should proceed then? I started drafting the email to the recruiter and it sounds weird.


The email generically discussed that the firm could not proceed with my "application." That just sounds weird since I met with the firm for an interview.

I have received a lot of rejection emails and letters while in law school - in my experience most firms are more specific on the rejection.


Definitely do not email him. At this point, just hold tight and see if you hear anything in either direction.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JoanSloan » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:57 pm

Why waste a year doing a $30k fellowship or struggling to pay rent? GPA/Class rank whores at law firms and big government. Its just a waste of time. Especialy if you are one year out after graduation and are still struggling.


Professions where salary (historically) increases with time: attorney, doctor, engineer.
Professions where salary plateaus after 10 years, and growth is anchored by starting pay: everything else.

I have never seen a more bs industry.

You haven't been looking hard enough. Besides, every game has rules. If you don't like the rules, don't play. I think everyone in this thread has made the conscious decision that they want to play, regardless of the difficulty.

And I, for one, think this has definitely been a good character-building exercise.

So...thank you for rallying the troops and reminding everyone why they're still making sacrifices, and why they're still fighting that inner voice that says "give up" in the darkest of times.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Merr » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:16 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
"New graduates"--that's exactly it. They have a relevant degree making them marketable. Sure, there are tons of actuaries and the like being hired these days. But what chance does a law student have (unless their UG degree happens to be in such a field)?

I mean, your point is well taken that looking outside of law will certainly expand the number of potential jobs one can apply for. I agree with you there--at some point, just cut your losses and expand your search. But I just don't think someone doing it is opening themselves up to as many possible jobs as you suggest. Unless you want to go back and get another degree, the only non-law jobs a law student is going to be able to realistically get (again, outside of their UG degree) will be jobs that don't require a degree in the first place--which hardly seem like jobs to be jumping at relative to the few law jobs floating around.


Having done non-legal work for a while post bar I would disagree with this. You have to take into consideration what employers who either have a JD themselves and work in non-legal work, or don't have JD, but have experience working with people who do think of people with JDs. While I admit there probably are some people who don't like hiring "overqualified applicants" I haven't run into any and in my personal experience the opposite is true. In fact, one person I worked with said that given the option he would always hire lawyers over non lawyers for positions, because he had never gone wrong doing so and every attorney he hired had been a competent hire who was able to prioritize, and take the initiative when necessary with very little prodding. I have also found that people I work with who either have JDs and work in non legal fields or have other advanced degrees like the prospect of hiring attorneys because they understand the relative rigor of grad school when compared with college.

I think being an attorney or having a JD can give you an edge in non-legal jobs and expand the pool you will actually get hired for. This is not to say you should go to law school for that reason, because the opportunity costs are really high, but in my experience it has made me much more marketable.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:28 pm

Does anyone know when is the time when you just stop applying for jobs because no employer will look at your application until you pass the bar?

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Alcibiades
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Alcibiades » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know when is the time when you just stop applying for jobs because no employer will look at your application until you pass the bar?


I'll take a stab at answering but other regulars may know the correct answer.

My guess is you don't, although your rate of return will probably be poor. Maybe you stop, majorly slow down the hunt during bar prep?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:01 am

Merr wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:
"New graduates"--that's exactly it. They have a relevant degree making them marketable. Sure, there are tons of actuaries and the like being hired these days. But what chance does a law student have (unless their UG degree happens to be in such a field)?

I mean, your point is well taken that looking outside of law will certainly expand the number of potential jobs one can apply for. I agree with you there--at some point, just cut your losses and expand your search. But I just don't think someone doing it is opening themselves up to as many possible jobs as you suggest. Unless you want to go back and get another degree, the only non-law jobs a law student is going to be able to realistically get (again, outside of their UG degree) will be jobs that don't require a degree in the first place--which hardly seem like jobs to be jumping at relative to the few law jobs floating around.


Having done non-legal work for a while post bar I would disagree with this. You have to take into consideration what employers who either have a JD themselves and work in non-legal work, or don't have JD, but have experience working with people who do think of people with JDs. While I admit there probably are some people who don't like hiring "overqualified applicants" I haven't run into any and in my personal experience the opposite is true. In fact, one person I worked with said that given the option he would always hire lawyers over non lawyers for positions, because he had never gone wrong doing so and every attorney he hired had been a competent hire who was able to prioritize, and take the initiative when necessary with very little prodding. I have also found that people I work with who either have JDs and work in non legal fields or have other advanced degrees like the prospect of hiring attorneys because they understand the relative rigor of grad school when compared with college.

I think being an attorney or having a JD can give you an edge in non-legal jobs and expand the pool you will actually get hired for. This is not to say you should go to law school for that reason, because the opportunity costs are really high, but in my experience it has made me much more marketable.

What field was this in?

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Merr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Merr » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:10 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Merr wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:
"New graduates"--that's exactly it. They have a relevant degree making them marketable. Sure, there are tons of actuaries and the like being hired these days. But what chance does a law student have (unless their UG degree happens to be in such a field)?

I mean, your point is well taken that looking outside of law will certainly expand the number of potential jobs one can apply for. I agree with you there--at some point, just cut your losses and expand your search. But I just don't think someone doing it is opening themselves up to as many possible jobs as you suggest. Unless you want to go back and get another degree, the only non-law jobs a law student is going to be able to realistically get (again, outside of their UG degree) will be jobs that don't require a degree in the first place--which hardly seem like jobs to be jumping at relative to the few law jobs floating around.


Having done non-legal work for a while post bar I would disagree with this. You have to take into consideration what employers who either have a JD themselves and work in non-legal work, or don't have JD, but have experience working with people who do think of people with JDs. While I admit there probably are some people who don't like hiring "overqualified applicants" I haven't run into any and in my personal experience the opposite is true. In fact, one person I worked with said that given the option he would always hire lawyers over non lawyers for positions, because he had never gone wrong doing so and every attorney he hired had been a competent hire who was able to prioritize, and take the initiative when necessary with very little prodding. I have also found that people I work with who either have JDs and work in non legal fields or have other advanced degrees like the prospect of hiring attorneys because they understand the relative rigor of grad school when compared with college.

I think being an attorney or having a JD can give you an edge in non-legal jobs and expand the pool you will actually get hired for. This is not to say you should go to law school for that reason, because the opportunity costs are really high, but in my experience it has made me much more marketable.

What field was this in?


Politics/Government.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:32 am

Wouldn't that be more like a JD-advantage field?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Merr » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:35 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Wouldn't that be more like a JD-advantage field?


While not strictly legal work, that is probably the case though I don't have any point of reference in other fields so I cannot say for sure. With that said most people I have worked with don't have JDs.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:25 am

How long should you wait to contact (if ever) a firm after the specified timeline they give you for making a decision? For instance, if a firm says, "We'll be conducting interviews over the next two weeks and will then be in touch," at what point would it be proper to contact them to follow up on their decision if they have yet to reach out? A few days? A week? Two weeks? Never?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:59 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:How long should you wait to contact (if ever) a firm after the specified timeline they give you for making a decision? For instance, if a firm says, "We'll be conducting interviews over the next two weeks and will then be in touch," at what point would it be proper to contact them to follow up on their decision if they have yet to reach out? A few days? A week? Two weeks? Never?


just going with my gut: one month

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby vandalvideo » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:10 pm

Merr wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Wouldn't that be more like a JD-advantage field?


While not strictly legal work, that is probably the case though I don't have any point of reference in other fields so I cannot say for sure. With that said most people I have worked with don't have JDs.


I have heard the exact opposite in other industries like Fitness, Law Enforcement, Non-Profit, and Hospitality. Many of the non-legal jobs I interviewed at expressed concern that I was a flight risk due to my legal education.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:36 pm

racheltessa wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:While I'm still a 3L, my fiancé graduated last year and was just offered a position at a mid-size law firm in NYC that she blindly e-mailed. The pay and benefits are actually very good. I only posted this because it is uplifting to know that jobs are out there and firms are hiring.


This is really good news. I am curious (and thinking others are too) when you say "blindly e-mailed" was there any connection at all, alumni at the firm, something like that? Was it in response to a job post on symplicity or on a job board? Or did she direct email through the firm website? I ask because I am always curious how people are scoring good opportunities these days, especially post graduation. Did she do research to identify the firm as a good fit for herself? I would love to hear more about it--feel free to PM if you like.

Indeed.com, no connections. She said it was just blind luck. Firm has about 80 attorneys

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Merr » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:33 pm

vandalvideo wrote:I have heard the exact opposite in other industries like Fitness, Law Enforcement, Non-Profit, and Hospitality. Many of the non-legal jobs I interviewed at expressed concern that I was a flight risk due to my legal education.


I have no experience with those fields so I really couldn't say either way.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:52 pm

Merr wrote:
vandalvideo wrote:I have heard the exact opposite in other industries like Fitness, Law Enforcement, Non-Profit, and Hospitality. Many of the non-legal jobs I interviewed at expressed concern that I was a flight risk due to my legal education.


I have no experience with those fields so I really couldn't say either way.


Will teaching and social work jobs see me as a flight risk?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Merr » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:42 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
Merr wrote:
vandalvideo wrote:I have heard the exact opposite in other industries like Fitness, Law Enforcement, Non-Profit, and Hospitality. Many of the non-legal jobs I interviewed at expressed concern that I was a flight risk due to my legal education.


I have no experience with those fields so I really couldn't say either way.


Will teaching and social work jobs see me as a flight risk?


Again I don't really have experience with those fields, but based on what other people have said and my own experience I have to suspect that it is highly subjective based on the employer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:00 am

Out of the vale. Got an offer today, in-house in my area of interest. It might not be a "forever" position but I'm excited and it'll definitely open doors and pay the bills.

T14, really bad 1L grades, did a lot better 2L and last semester. Good work and internship experience, a lot of it pretty relevant to the position.

I have had a grand total of three interviews, all through my school despite an absurd number of outside job apps. This was my only callback, and it worked out. Keep grinding; you've got this.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:Out of the vale. Got an offer today, in-house in my area of interest. It might not be a "forever" position but I'm excited and it'll definitely open doors and pay the bills.

T14, really bad 1L grades, did a lot better 2L and last semester. Good work and internship experience, a lot of it pretty relevant to the position.

I have had a grand total of three interviews, all through my school despite an absurd number of outside job apps. This was my only callback, and it worked out. Keep grinding; you've got this.


Congrats!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JJDancer » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Out of the vale. Got an offer today, in-house in my area of interest. It might not be a "forever" position but I'm excited and it'll definitely open doors and pay the bills.

T14, really bad 1L grades, did a lot better 2L and last semester. Good work and internship experience, a lot of it pretty relevant to the position.

I have had a grand total of three interviews, all through my school despite an absurd number of outside job apps. This was my only callback, and it worked out. Keep grinding; you've got this.

Congrats!! Please pass me the good luck juju.

Sometimes things happen in waves.
January - 1 interview then nothing
February - Nothing
March - two potential opportunities just came my way - have interviews coming up and nothing is done yet but feeling rejuvenated. Wish me luck guys and keep trying!!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:49 pm

JJDancer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Out of the vale. Got an offer today, in-house in my area of interest. It might not be a "forever" position but I'm excited and it'll definitely open doors and pay the bills.

T14, really bad 1L grades, did a lot better 2L and last semester. Good work and internship experience, a lot of it pretty relevant to the position.

I have had a grand total of three interviews, all through my school despite an absurd number of outside job apps. This was my only callback, and it worked out. Keep grinding; you've got this.

Congrats!! Please pass me the good luck juju.

Sometimes things happen in waves.
January - 1 interview then nothing
February - Nothing
March - two potential opportunities just came my way - have interviews coming up and nothing is done yet but feeling rejuvenated. Wish me luck guys and keep trying!!

Nice!

I actually just got a phone interview request for this Friday from a nice looking small firm in my desired practice area and in a great area to live.

First interview in a while...

Good luck JJ and congrats to the anon above.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
JJDancer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Out of the vale. Got an offer today, in-house in my area of interest. It might not be a "forever" position but I'm excited and it'll definitely open doors and pay the bills.

T14, really bad 1L grades, did a lot better 2L and last semester. Good work and internship experience, a lot of it pretty relevant to the position.

I have had a grand total of three interviews, all through my school despite an absurd number of outside job apps. This was my only callback, and it worked out. Keep grinding; you've got this.

Congrats!! Please pass me the good luck juju.

Sometimes things happen in waves.
January - 1 interview then nothing
February - Nothing
March - two potential opportunities just came my way - have interviews coming up and nothing is done yet but feeling rejuvenated. Wish me luck guys and keep trying!!

Nice!

I actually just got a phone interview request for this Friday from a nice looking small firm in my desired practice area and in a great area to live.

First interview in a while...

Good luck JJ and congrats to the anon above.


Good luck!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby thewaterlanding » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:12 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JJDancer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Out of the vale. Got an offer today, in-house in my area of interest. It might not be a "forever" position but I'm excited and it'll definitely open doors and pay the bills.

T14, really bad 1L grades, did a lot better 2L and last semester. Good work and internship experience, a lot of it pretty relevant to the position.

I have had a grand total of three interviews, all through my school despite an absurd number of outside job apps. This was my only callback, and it worked out. Keep grinding; you've got this.

Congrats!! Please pass me the good luck juju.

Sometimes things happen in waves.
January - 1 interview then nothing
February - Nothing
March - two potential opportunities just came my way - have interviews coming up and nothing is done yet but feeling rejuvenated. Wish me luck guys and keep trying!!

Nice!

I actually just got a phone interview request for this Friday from a nice looking small firm in my desired practice area and in a great area to live.

First interview in a while...

Good luck JJ and congrats to the anon above.


Good luck!




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