The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:04 pm

This thread should be required reading for all 0Ls. Shit sucks. :(

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:36 am

Pleasye wrote:
jamesm722 wrote:I feel like last semester and not barred is legal purgatory.

SO much this.

Just one more reason I feel totally disconnected from school this term. Not really depressed (yet), but all I want to do is stay home with my Lego and my Roku, or maybe go to a museum by myself. Being on campus with the neurotic 1Ls and the 2Ls gunning for SBA elections and the biglaw 3Ls comparing bar trip plans is exhausting.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby adonai » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:45 pm

Pleasye wrote:
jamesm722 wrote:I feel like last semester and not barred is legal purgatory.

SO much this.

Bar studying goes by pretty quick. Waiting for results is the true purgatory--you're not a law student nor a lawyer...you just...exist. Hang in there, we've all been through it. It's sort of like a rite of passage.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dr. Review » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:54 pm

jamesm722 wrote:I am considering taking a few more science courses so I can take the patent bar. I have done a good amount of patent claims drafting with a supervising patent attorney during the summer for work.


The temptation is common to do this. I hear people saying "I should take the patent bar to open up some doors" all the time. The fact is, if you are not truly interested or not exactly qualified, it shows. Additionally, most firms are not going to see much marketing upside to hiring someone with just enough credits to take the patent bar. Personally, I wouldn't waste the time or money to take the classes and the patent bar exam unless you have at least a BS, and even then, only certain BS degrees (e.g., EE).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JJDancer » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:10 pm

Does anyone else (grads) jam to that song about how you can't pay your rent (especially towards the end of the month)? lol
Every time I hear it on the radio, it's cathartic.

(I have never not paid my rent on time but I'm living off savings/loans and those will run out soon - terrifying).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jamesm722 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:08 pm

Dr. Review wrote:
jamesm722 wrote:I am considering taking a few more science courses so I can take the patent bar. I have done a good amount of patent claims drafting with a supervising patent attorney during the summer for work.


The temptation is common to do this. I hear people saying "I should take the patent bar to open up some doors" all the time. The fact is, if you are not truly interested or not exactly qualified, it shows. Additionally, most firms are not going to see much marketing upside to hiring someone with just enough credits to take the patent bar. Personally, I wouldn't waste the time or money to take the classes and the patent bar exam unless you have at least a BS, and even then, only certain BS degrees (e.g., EE).


I'm more interested in patent litigation than prosecution. I am more than capable of writing most mechanical engineering claims and have quite a bit of experience. I really just want to litigate it, which really requires no background.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dr. Review » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:20 pm

jamesm722 wrote:I'm more interested in patent litigation than prosecution. I am more than capable of writing most mechanical engineering claims and have quite a bit of experience. I really just want to litigate it, which really requires no background.


Most pros attorneys are capable of writing most ME claims, but it doesn't make them marketable to clients. As for litigation, you really do not need a reg. number. I am not saying that you absolutely shouldn't do it, I am just trying to say that the option looks more attractive than it is, and I am not sure that it will open any doors. Just consider the costs - both time and money - relative to the marginal benefits before pulling the trigger.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby shredderrrrrr » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:19 pm

jamesm722 wrote:
Dr. Review wrote:
jamesm722 wrote:I am considering taking a few more science courses so I can take the patent bar. I have done a good amount of patent claims drafting with a supervising patent attorney during the summer for work.


The temptation is common to do this. I hear people saying "I should take the patent bar to open up some doors" all the time. The fact is, if you are not truly interested or not exactly qualified, it shows. Additionally, most firms are not going to see much marketing upside to hiring someone with just enough credits to take the patent bar. Personally, I wouldn't waste the time or money to take the classes and the patent bar exam unless you have at least a BS, and even then, only certain BS degrees (e.g., EE).


I'm more interested in patent litigation than prosecution. I am more than capable of writing most mechanical engineering claims and have quite a bit of experience. I really just want to litigate it, which really requires no background.


I think the above poster was alluding more to getting a job than being able to do the work itself. Even if you feel well-versed in the topic, most firms want quantifiable measures of proficiency in the area. This is generally, at the very least, a BS (and higher degrees if in fields such as chemistry or biology). I only know this because I was (and suppose, to an extent, am) in the same position as you and met with virtually every single IP attorney I could to get their thoughts. Across the board, they said, "Sure, we could hire someone without an actual degree in the relevant field. But we likely wouldn't." They said it is because clients want to see degrees. A major technology company is not going to say, "oh, this attorney spent a few summers drafting patent claims and passed the bar--sounds good!" when they could just as easily find an attorney with various degrees in the field.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:31 pm

JJDancer wrote:Does anyone else (grads) jam to that song about how you can't pay your rent (especially towards the end of the month)? lol
Every time I hear it on the radio, it's cathartic.

(I have never not paid my rent on time but I'm living off savings/loans and those will run out soon - terrifying).

hahah, which song is that?

i'm seriously in a similar position. luckily, i've had some money saved up and i've made some nice profits in the stock market to offset my living expenses/loan repayments for the last few months. i've been living rent free at a relative's house so that's helped me a lot. but i don't have a lot of money left, and i have zero job prospects (for legal jobs that pay).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JJDancer » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
JJDancer wrote:Does anyone else (grads) jam to that song about how you can't pay your rent (especially towards the end of the month)? lol
Every time I hear it on the radio, it's cathartic.

(I have never not paid my rent on time but I'm living off savings/loans and those will run out soon - terrifying).

hahah, which song is that?

i'm seriously in a similar position. luckily, i've had some money saved up and i've made some nice profits in the stock market to offset my living expenses/loan repayments for the last few months. i've been living rent free at a relative's house so that's helped me a lot. but i don't have a lot of money left, and i have zero job prospects (for legal jobs that pay).


Good luck my friend! I hope you get something great soon.

Also, I just looked up the song and apparently it's Pitbull lol was not expecting that. It's called time of our lives.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:27 pm

JJDancer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JJDancer wrote:Does anyone else (grads) jam to that song about how you can't pay your rent (especially towards the end of the month)? lol
Every time I hear it on the radio, it's cathartic.

(I have never not paid my rent on time but I'm living off savings/loans and those will run out soon - terrifying).

hahah, which song is that?

i'm seriously in a similar position. luckily, i've had some money saved up and i've made some nice profits in the stock market to offset my living expenses/loan repayments for the last few months. i've been living rent free at a relative's house so that's helped me a lot. but i don't have a lot of money left, and i have zero job prospects (for legal jobs that pay).


Good luck my friend! I hope you get something great soon.

Also, I just looked up the song and apparently it's Pitbull lol was not expecting that. It's called time of our lives.

Good luck, too. We are in this shit together.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby transferror » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:19 am

From Symplicity - South Jersey/Philly area firm looking to take on first-year associates:

First Year Associates
Parker McCay, PA (Mt. Laurel, NJ)
Posted: Feb 25, 2015
DIVISION N/A GEOGRAPHIC PREFERENCE New Jersey
POSITION TYPE Full-time DESIRED CLASS LEVEL(S) GRAD
COMPENSATION TYPE Salary
Parker McCay, PA (Mt. Laurel, NJ)
Employer Profile
DESCRIPTION
FIRST YEAR ASSOCIATES

Parker McCay is seeking First Year Associates to join our firm in the Fall 2015. Associates will work out of our Mount Laurel office.

Requirements Qualified candidates should be licensed in New Jersey and have completed their Clerkships by Fall 2015. Successful candidates should possess drive, energy, leadership potential and high professional standards.

Parker McCay offers a collegial and collaborative work environment with competitive compensation and benefits. For consideration, please send resume’ along with salary requirements to:

Director of Human Resources 9000 Midlantic Drive, Suite 300 P.O. Box 5054 Mount Laurel, NJ 08054-5054 Email: hr@parkermccay.com

EOE/Minority and Women applicants are encouraged to apply.

***Applications accepted until March 31, 2015***

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:52 pm

Does "Per Diem Attorney" = Doc Review?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:24 pm

Just want to post that I am in a special type of hell. Graduated in May, passed the July exam of 2014. Got a very prestigious public interest job that I could start tomorrow. However, I have not cleared my C&F. Last meaningful contact with state bar was in October. I have no idea what is going. No one will talk to me or respond. I basically have until June to get in or I lose the job. This is not criminal. This is financial/medical that affects my C&F. I told the local bar about this when I started law school and was told it would be ok. Last contact in December was told I will not be getting an answer anytime soon.

I am sick of everyday a different family member saying "Can't you do anything?", "Why don't you do something?", "I can't believe this is happening to you.", "Can't you talk to someone?", "When will you become an attorney?", "Wait you passed the bar, why are you not an attorney?". No I can't. I can't do anything. Neither can I believe it. THERE IS NO ONE I CAN TALK TO!!!!! I NEVER KNOW WHEN I WILL BECOME AN ATTORNEY!!!!! I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY!!!!

Had to vent. Nothing I can do. Never been more frustrated in my life.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby aardvark87 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just want to post that I am in a special type of hell. Graduated in May, passed the July exam of 2014. Got a very prestigious public interest job that I could start tomorrow. However, I have not cleared my C&F. Last meaningful contact with state bar was in October. I have no idea what is going. No one will talk to me or respond. I basically have until June to get in or I lose the job. This is not criminal. This is financial/medical that affects my C&F. I told the local bar about this when I started law school and was told it would be ok. Last contact in December was told I will not be getting an answer anytime soon.

I am sick of everyday a different family member saying "Can't you do anything?", "Why don't you do something?", "I can't believe this is happening to you.", "Can't you talk to someone?", "When will you become an attorney?", "Wait you passed the bar, why are you not an attorney?". No I can't. I can't do anything. Neither can I believe it. THERE IS NO ONE I CAN TALK TO!!!!! I NEVER KNOW WHEN I WILL BECOME AN ATTORNEY!!!!! I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY!!!!

Had to vent. Nothing I can do. Never been more frustrated in my life.


Shoot me a PM. I've been through the same thing.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:59 pm

That's really awful anon. I don't have anything helpful to say but I hope it works out for you.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just want to post that I am in a special type of hell. Graduated in May, passed the July exam of 2014. Got a very prestigious public interest job that I could start tomorrow. However, I have not cleared my C&F. Last meaningful contact with state bar was in October. I have no idea what is going. No one will talk to me or respond. I basically have until June to get in or I lose the job. This is not criminal. This is financial/medical that affects my C&F. I told the local bar about this when I started law school and was told it would be ok. Last contact in December was told I will not be getting an answer anytime soon.

I am sick of everyday a different family member saying "Can't you do anything?", "Why don't you do something?", "I can't believe this is happening to you.", "Can't you talk to someone?", "When will you become an attorney?", "Wait you passed the bar, why are you not an attorney?". No I can't. I can't do anything. Neither can I believe it. THERE IS NO ONE I CAN TALK TO!!!!! I NEVER KNOW WHEN I WILL BECOME AN ATTORNEY!!!!! I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY!!!!

Had to vent. Nothing I can do. Never been more frustrated in my life.


This is precisely my nightmare, anon. I really hope things work out for you and other Valers in the C&F purgatory.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:25 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
jamesm722 wrote:I feel like last semester and not barred is legal purgatory.

SO much this.

Just one more reason I feel totally disconnected from school this term. Not really depressed (yet), but all I want to do is stay home with my Lego and my Roku, or maybe go to a museum by myself. Being on campus with the neurotic 1Ls and the 2Ls gunning for SBA elections and the biglaw 3Ls comparing bar trip plans is exhausting.

This was how I felt all 3L

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:01 am

BlueLotus wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just want to post that I am in a special type of hell. Graduated in May, passed the July exam of 2014. Got a very prestigious public interest job that I could start tomorrow. However, I have not cleared my C&F. Last meaningful contact with state bar was in October. I have no idea what is going. No one will talk to me or respond. I basically have until June to get in or I lose the job. This is not criminal. This is financial/medical that affects my C&F. I told the local bar about this when I started law school and was told it would be ok. Last contact in December was told I will not be getting an answer anytime soon.

I am sick of everyday a different family member saying "Can't you do anything?", "Why don't you do something?", "I can't believe this is happening to you.", "Can't you talk to someone?", "When will you become an attorney?", "Wait you passed the bar, why are you not an attorney?". No I can't. I can't do anything. Neither can I believe it. THERE IS NO ONE I CAN TALK TO!!!!! I NEVER KNOW WHEN I WILL BECOME AN ATTORNEY!!!!! I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY!!!!

Had to vent. Nothing I can do. Never been more frustrated in my life.


This is precisely my nightmare, anon. I really hope things work out for you and other Valers in the C&F purgatory.

Is this that uncommon? A 1st year at my summer firm got sworn in, in July. I understand that outside of big law most jobs require you to be licensed to start, and why you would be frustrated. The ironic thing is if your credit dropped because of their incompetence impacting your ability to make obligated payments then they'd delay you even longer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JohannDeMann » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:30 am

rinkrat19 wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
jamesm722 wrote:I feel like last semester and not barred is legal purgatory.

SO much this.

Just one more reason I feel totally disconnected from school this term. Not really depressed (yet), but all I want to do is stay home with my Lego and my Roku, or maybe go to a museum by myself. Being on campus with the neurotic 1Ls and the 2Ls gunning for SBA elections and the biglaw 3Ls comparing bar trip plans is exhausting.


Sorry to hear this rink. I know you're in the abyss right now but the important thing is to continue going through the motions and try to trick yourself it's important. It is a struggle but things will end up okay - keep the faith. Shoot me a pm if you ever need to vent over coffee. The happiest lawyers I know today are the ones that did not have jobs lined up at this point of 3l year.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JCougar » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:Just want to post that I am in a special type of hell. Graduated in May, passed the July exam of 2014. Got a very prestigious public interest job that I could start tomorrow. However, I have not cleared my C&F. Last meaningful contact with state bar was in October. I have no idea what is going. No one will talk to me or respond. I basically have until June to get in or I lose the job. This is not criminal. This is financial/medical that affects my C&F. I told the local bar about this when I started law school and was told it would be ok. Last contact in December was told I will not be getting an answer anytime soon.

I am sick of everyday a different family member saying "Can't you do anything?", "Why don't you do something?", "I can't believe this is happening to you.", "Can't you talk to someone?", "When will you become an attorney?", "Wait you passed the bar, why are you not an attorney?". No I can't. I can't do anything. Neither can I believe it. THERE IS NO ONE I CAN TALK TO!!!!! I NEVER KNOW WHEN I WILL BECOME AN ATTORNEY!!!!! I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY!!!!

Had to vent. Nothing I can do. Never been more frustrated in my life.


The individual runs into the meat-grinder of law job bureaucracy that couldn't care less.

I feel like this is a theme that repeats itself over and over and over again.

This unpredictability and uncertainty can be particularly agonizing--especially when you pile pressure from the family on top of it. It's hard enough trying to maintain your own emotional state. If you throw having to play wet nurse to your family on top of it, it can become too much to bear. I think the only way to get around this is to tell them to buck up so that you don't have to worry about them as well.

You would think a PI org would be particularly sensitive to problems created by medical debt. Hang in there.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tanicius » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:48 pm

JCougar wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just want to post that I am in a special type of hell. Graduated in May, passed the July exam of 2014. Got a very prestigious public interest job that I could start tomorrow. However, I have not cleared my C&F. Last meaningful contact with state bar was in October. I have no idea what is going. No one will talk to me or respond. I basically have until June to get in or I lose the job. This is not criminal. This is financial/medical that affects my C&F. I told the local bar about this when I started law school and was told it would be ok. Last contact in December was told I will not be getting an answer anytime soon.

I am sick of everyday a different family member saying "Can't you do anything?", "Why don't you do something?", "I can't believe this is happening to you.", "Can't you talk to someone?", "When will you become an attorney?", "Wait you passed the bar, why are you not an attorney?". No I can't. I can't do anything. Neither can I believe it. THERE IS NO ONE I CAN TALK TO!!!!! I NEVER KNOW WHEN I WILL BECOME AN ATTORNEY!!!!! I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY!!!!

Had to vent. Nothing I can do. Never been more frustrated in my life.


The individual runs into the meat-grinder of law job bureaucracy that couldn't care less.

I feel like this is a theme that repeats itself over and over and over again.

This unpredictability and uncertainty can be particularly agonizing--especially when you pile pressure from the family on top of it. It's hard enough trying to maintain your own emotional state. If you throw having to play wet nurse to your family on top of it, it can become too much to bear. I think the only way to get around this is to tell them to buck up so that you don't have to worry about them as well.

You would think a PI org would be particularly sensitive to problems created by medical debt. Hang in there.


For real. This person shelled out $500+ to that bar association and they are giving him service that is worse than Comcast.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby thatgirlthere » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:26 pm

Out of the Vale, finally. 2014 T14 grad in DC, going to a small firm as a law clerk until I find out if I pass the bar, then I'll be an actual attorney with the firm.

I'm very active with the community, and although that is not what helped me find the position, it was a part of why I was hired. School name apparently helped also. Never was asked for a transcript.

I didn't realize how after all these months of searching, it would be so difficult to release the stress that I've built up. I maintained a daily routine of looking on attorneyjobsinusa.com, school symplicity, linkedin, etc and to not have to do those things anymore feels weird.

Willing to help any of you in whatever way I can.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:55 pm

thatgirlthere wrote:Out of the Vale, finally. 2014 T14 grad in DC, going to a small firm as a law clerk until I find out if I pass the bar, then I'll be an actual attorney with the firm.

I'm very active with the community, and although that is not what helped me find the position, it was a part of why I was hired. School name apparently helped also. Never was asked for a transcript.

I didn't realize how after all these months of searching, it would be so difficult to release the stress that I've built up. I maintained a daily routine of looking on attorneyjobsinusa.com, school symplicity, linkedin, etc and to not have to do those things anymore feels weird.

Willing to help any of you in whatever way I can.

congrats! how did you find the position?

thatgirlthere
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby thatgirlthere » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
thatgirlthere wrote:Out of the Vale, finally. 2014 T14 grad in DC, going to a small firm as a law clerk until I find out if I pass the bar, then I'll be an actual attorney with the firm.

I'm very active with the community, and although that is not what helped me find the position, it was a part of why I was hired. School name apparently helped also. Never was asked for a transcript.

I didn't realize how after all these months of searching, it would be so difficult to release the stress that I've built up. I maintained a daily routine of looking on attorneyjobsinusa.com, school symplicity, linkedin, etc and to not have to do those things anymore feels weird.

Willing to help any of you in whatever way I can.

congrats! how did you find the position?


Craigslist! The last place I ever thought I'd find a job.




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