The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:43 pm

I am a 3L. It's been six months of applying to jobs and interviewing, and while I've gotten some second and final round interviews, I haven't been able to secure the offer. I've only gotten rejections. When I visit the forums, it seems like people are getting offers already. It's getting late in the game now. Just want to know, is it common to interview a lot and get a lot of rejections? How do you overcome all of the rejections? And what should I do now, as there are fewer and fewer entry level job postings for 3Ls?

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Dr. Review
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am a 3L. It's been six months of applying to jobs and interviewing, and while I've gotten some second and final round interviews, I haven't been able to secure the offer. I've only gotten rejections. When I visit the forums, it seems like people are getting offers already. It's getting late in the game now. Just want to know, is it common to interview a lot and get a lot of rejections? How do you overcome all of the rejections? And what should I do now, as there are fewer and fewer entry level job postings for 3Ls?

You're not that late yet. I got two offers after January in my 3L year. One was in March and the other was after the bar exam. Keep trucking.

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JCougar
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JCougar » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am a 3L. It's been six months of applying to jobs and interviewing, and while I've gotten some second and final round interviews, I haven't been able to secure the offer. I've only gotten rejections. When I visit the forums, it seems like people are getting offers already. It's getting late in the game now. Just want to know, is it common to interview a lot and get a lot of rejections? How do you overcome all of the rejections? And what should I do now, as there are fewer and fewer entry level job postings for 3Ls?


When there's 500 applicants for every decent position in law, it's common to get a lot of rejections, even if you're well-qualified.

It doesn't necessarily reflect on you that you suck (although you should always reflect in a healthy way what you might be doing wrong. But a lot of times, it might just simply be math. Way too many candidates, way too little jobs.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:48 pm

To all 3Ls currently applying for jobs, I highly encourage you to meet with anyone and everyone who agrees for info interviews right now. Don't wait until you graduate, do it now. The further back from graduation you get, the more awkward info interviews become. Right now youre a 3L looking around and seeing what the best opportunity that comes up, 6 months after graduation you are basically reeking of desperation and can't really make a good story for why you wanna meet outside of "I want a job now please". I started law school thinking info interviews were the biggest joke I've ever heard of. Today, I think the biggest non-studying/grade related mistake one could make while in law school is to not grow your network while you're still a student and its easy. If I was a 3L that was jobless in my last semester I'd be emailing 50 attorneys a week and scheduling an info interview for every day if I can.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:27 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:To all 3Ls currently applying for jobs, I highly encourage you to meet with anyone and everyone who agrees for info interviews right now. Don't wait until you graduate, do it now. The further back from graduation you get, the more awkward info interviews become. Right now youre a 3L looking around and seeing what the best opportunity that comes up, 6 months after graduation you are basically reeking of desperation and can't really make a good story for why you wanna meet outside of "I want a job now please". I started law school thinking info interviews were the biggest joke I've ever heard of. Today, I think the biggest non-studying/grade related mistake one could make while in law school is to not grow your network while you're still a student and its easy. If I was a 3L that was jobless in my last semester I'd be emailing 50 attorneys a week and scheduling an info interview for every day if I can.


This is credited advice.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:26 pm

JCougar wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
sd5289 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Are JDs a "plus" for social work and K-12 teaching jobs? Looking into alternate careers if my C&F shit doesn't work in my favor.


I may have missed it, but what C&F shit? In my state (assuming you haven't committed tax fraud or the like), so long as you disclose whatever you're pretty much fine.


college disciplinary matter (behavioral, not academic). can't go into too much detail on here. sooooo fucking terrified that i'm gonna fail c&f and all these years of hard work will go to waste. :cry: so i'm looking at JD-Advantage jerbs out of necessity.


Just report it. It doesn't sound like anything you'd not be able to pass C&F for. Unless it was somehow related to fraud/financial malpractice/deceit, you're almost certainly good. And even if it was, the fact that it was handled by the college rather than the police tells me that it probably wasn't major, so I doubt you should worry.

Honesty is the #1 concern with these things. I passed and I had (and still have) an unpaid debt with a certain internet provider that thinks it can just make up whatever number it wants, send you a bill, and report you to collections if you protest payment. But I disclosed that on my bar app, including letters I sent the company asking them to correct my bill, gave them the circumstances, etc. I just said that it was basically a bogus bill and a mistake, and that I was never going to pay them ever, unless a judge ordered me to. Of course, this company is well-known for scamming its customers. Nobody cared.


I sure hope you're right. I also have pretty serious mental health stuff (bipolar, etc.) :| Worried about that being a C&F issue too. It's pretty shitty for C&F to ask about mental health treatment, as if it's a bad thing.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:52 am

Anyone know how grades/rank conscious EOIR clerkships are? Have a measly 3.006 GPA from a measly T30, but tons of immigration experience thru internships/volunteering.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Malcolm8X » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:55 am

Is this where our jobs are going? I posted this for two reasons: 1) if you're bold enough to apply, go ahead. (2) isn't this UPL? Note the qualifications and duties I highlighted below:

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetail/392937600

Title: Paralegal Specialist

Duties: - Conducts legal research using library references, files, corporate records, private and governmental studies, computer databases, and other pertinent sources to supply needed legal or factual information for inclusion in memoranda, directives and pleadings.

- Analyzes data, develops recommendations and justifications for the attorneys for use in interpretation and advisory requests, or in complex litigation cases.

- Prepares legal memoranda and correspondence reflecting relevant facts, source, legal authorities and citations to determine which information is appropriate. Drafts legal documents such as subpoenas, orders, pleadings, briefs or exhibits and/or witness preparation. Assists in the preparation of internal position papers analyzing novel or unique legal or factual issues within the section’s responsibility.

Qualifications:
Applicants MUST have at least one-year of specialized experience equivalent to the next lower grade level, GS/CG-9 level, in the Federal service. Specialized experience includes independently performing a variety of analytical paralegal or legal work which demonstrates a practical knowledge of administrative law and the regulatory process. Examples include analyzing and evaluating case files to identify factual issues in cases; conducting complex legal research and preparing legal briefs; providing litigation support; drafting subpoenas; organizing documents using litigation support software; and preparing pleadings.

OR

Education may be substituted for experience in qualifying for this position. If qualifying based on education, applicant must possess: A Ph.D. or equivalent doctoral degree OR 3 full years of progressively higher level graduate education leading to such a degree or LL.M if related. The education must demonstrate the knowledge, skills and abilities to perform the work.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:22 am

UPL requires you to file pleadings and stand up in court. It doesn't matter who does the out-of-court stuff. This is a very typical set of responsibilities for a government paralegal. Nothing is going out of the office without an attorney signing it and filing it/sending it/whatever, and the stuff being drafted is either 1) really routine (subpoenas, orders, many pleadings) or 2) a shell for an attorney to fill in (briefs - a paralegal isn't going to add substantive material, but they can put everything in place that needs to be there to let the attorney fill in the substance).

I get your concerns, but federal paralegals are not taking away attorney jobs.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:32 pm

Malcolm8X wrote:Is this where our jobs are going? I posted this for two reasons: 1) if you're bold enough to apply, go ahead. (2) isn't this UPL? Note the qualifications and duties I highlighted below:

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetail/392937600

Title: Paralegal Specialist

Duties: - Conducts legal research using library references, files, corporate records, private and governmental studies, computer databases, and other pertinent sources to supply needed legal or factual information for inclusion in memoranda, directives and pleadings.

- Analyzes data, develops recommendations and justifications for the attorneys for use in interpretation and advisory requests, or in complex litigation cases.

- Prepares legal memoranda and correspondence reflecting relevant facts, source, legal authorities and citations to determine which information is appropriate. Drafts legal documents such as subpoenas, orders, pleadings, briefs or exhibits and/or witness preparation. Assists in the preparation of internal position papers analyzing novel or unique legal or factual issues within the section’s responsibility.

Qualifications:
Applicants MUST have at least one-year of specialized experience equivalent to the next lower grade level, GS/CG-9 level, in the Federal service. Specialized experience includes independently performing a variety of analytical paralegal or legal work which demonstrates a practical knowledge of administrative law and the regulatory process. Examples include analyzing and evaluating case files to identify factual issues in cases; conducting complex legal research and preparing legal briefs; providing litigation support; drafting subpoenas; organizing documents using litigation support software; and preparing pleadings.

OR

Education may be substituted for experience in qualifying for this position. If qualifying based on education, applicant must possess: A Ph.D. or equivalent doctoral degree OR 3 full years of progressively higher level graduate education leading to such a degree or LL.M if related. The education must demonstrate the knowledge, skills and abilities to perform the work.


$75,000 beats a ADA salary....

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:09 pm

anyone have any insight on state magistrate positions? It seems kind of like a pretty mindless job, approving warrants for probable cause, setting bail before arraignment, that type of thing? I'm interviewing with them later this week, not really in a position to turn down a good job, but it sounds completely dead end. Anything I'm missing?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:56 am

Hey. Finally joining the thread instead of just trying to avoid looking directly at it.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:18 am

Welcome! Hope your stay here is a short one.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:56 pm

Radio silence after interview two weeks ago.

They didn't give me a timeline to hear back.

Pretty sure this means I didn't get it?

Mid sized firm (couple of offices, <150 attorneys)

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Radio silence after interview two weeks ago.

They didn't give me a timeline to hear back.

Pretty sure this means I didn't get it?

Mid sized firm (couple of offices, <150 attorneys)

Unfortunately it doesn't mean anything

follow up at appropriate times

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby LetsGoLAW » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:00 pm

Out of the Vale. After months of envelope licking, I've accepted a clerkship offer. I'm thrilled. Anyone with questions can PM me. Best of luck to you all.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:26 pm

Nice hustle, congrats LGL! :D

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby crysmissmichelle » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:57 pm

Congratulations!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ahduke99 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:53 pm

I have an interview tomorrow afternoon with a smaller/mid sized firm. I have no idea how many attorneys they have, but that they have two offices. Their website doesn't list much about the firm. This is going for an associates position. I just graduated and passed the bar in November 2014. I have had three internships in the past, but none of the firms i worked for were hiring full time attorneys positions, so I was kind of out of luck.

Wish me luck. Is there any advice I must know before going? In the past, most of the interviews I have gone to for summer employment seem to be more of "do I like you and want to hang out with you" rather than anything else. Of course, this is South Carolina.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:09 pm

Hi everyone. I'm a 3L and have been interning part time this year. My supervisor left biglaw recently due to health reasons. Could a letter of recommendation/reference from him lead to a biglaw position with his old firm?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi everyone. I'm a 3L and have been interning part time this year. My supervisor left biglaw recently due to health reasons. Could a letter of recommendation/reference from him lead to a biglaw position with his old firm?

I mean, if the firm has an opening for an entry-level, it probably would be helpful, but it's not like a reference from him would create a new position.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:40 pm

ahduke99 wrote:I have an interview tomorrow afternoon with a smaller/mid sized firm. I have no idea how many attorneys they have, but that they have two offices. Their website doesn't list much about the firm. This is going for an associates position. I just graduated and passed the bar in November 2014. I have had three internships in the past, but none of the firms i worked for were hiring full time attorneys positions, so I was kind of out of luck.

Wish me luck. Is there any advice I must know before going? In the past, most of the interviews I have gone to for summer employment seem to be more of "do I like you and want to hang out with you" rather than anything else. Of course, this is South Carolina.

from my experience, the interviewing process is much the same: go over resume, questions for them, chit chat. the only difference i've found is that salary may come up. good luck.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:29 pm

do 3ls have any shot at lateral opportunities in practice fields they have summer experience in?

ahduke99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ahduke99 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ahduke99 wrote:I have an interview tomorrow afternoon with a smaller/mid sized firm. I have no idea how many attorneys they have, but that they have two offices. Their website doesn't list much about the firm. This is going for an associates position. I just graduated and passed the bar in November 2014. I have had three internships in the past, but none of the firms i worked for were hiring full time attorneys positions, so I was kind of out of luck.

Wish me luck. Is there any advice I must know before going? In the past, most of the interviews I have gone to for summer employment seem to be more of "do I like you and want to hang out with you" rather than anything else. Of course, this is South Carolina.

from my experience, the interviewing process is much the same: go over resume, questions for them, chit chat. the only difference i've found is that salary may come up. good luck.


That's what I am hoping for. I am happy to talk about my past jobs and explain why I didn't work for two summers since 2006. I am worried they'll ask me weird questions like giving me a bizarre scenario and ask how I'd handle it or to talk about my biggest failure, which I can't really think of, but maybe since this isn't a big law firm, they won't do things like that.

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cinephile
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby cinephile » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:24 am

sd5289 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Are JDs a "plus" for social work and K-12 teaching jobs? Looking into alternate careers if my C&F shit doesn't work in my favor.


Yes, it can be. I graduated last May and have been focusing on social work and teaching jobs and have now received offers in both. It sounds like your primary goal is to get a legal job, but if you want to set yourself up for alternate careers, it helps to have some work or volunteer experience in that area. I spent my 2L summer doing child advocacy work and have been volunteering in that area since graduation. In addition to looking good on a resume, it gave me something to talk about on my interviews. The children's services interviews were especially challenging (what would you do if ...) and it helped to have been exposed to some of those scenarios before, even if it was in a legal setting.

But hopefully this is irrelevant because you pass C&F and get the job you want.




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