The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:35 am

Are JDs a "plus" for social work and K-12 teaching jobs? Looking into alternate careers if C&F shit doesn't work in my favor.
Last edited by BlueLotus on Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sd5289
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sd5289 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:42 am

BlueLotus wrote:Are JDs a "plus" for social work and K-12 teaching jobs? Looking into alternate careers if my C&F shit doesn't work in my favor.


I may have missed it, but what C&F shit? In my state (assuming you haven't committed tax fraud or the like), so long as you disclose whatever you're pretty much fine.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:52 pm

SFB222 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Jessuf wrote:What does a big law staff attorney do and what are they paid?


Totally depends on the firm. I interviewed for one and it sounded like an associate but for 90k instead of 160k.


That still seems pretty good. Are they hard to get?


Like any entry level JD job that pays a lot yup.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:48 pm

sd5289 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Are JDs a "plus" for social work and K-12 teaching jobs? Looking into alternate careers if my C&F shit doesn't work in my favor.


I may have missed it, but what C&F shit? In my state (assuming you haven't committed tax fraud or the like), so long as you disclose whatever you're pretty much fine.


college disciplinary matter (behavioral, not academic). can't go into too much detail on here. sooooo fucking terrified that i'm gonna fail c&f and all these years of hard work will go to waste. :cry: so i'm looking at JD-Advantage jerbs out of necessity.

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sd5289
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sd5289 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:15 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
sd5289 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Are JDs a "plus" for social work and K-12 teaching jobs? Looking into alternate careers if my C&F shit doesn't work in my favor.


I may have missed it, but what C&F shit? In my state (assuming you haven't committed tax fraud or the like), so long as you disclose whatever you're pretty much fine.


college disciplinary matter (behavioral, not academic). can't go into too much detail on here. sooooo fucking terrified that i'm gonna fail c&f and all these years of hard work will go to waste. :cry: so i'm looking at JD-Advantage jerbs out of necessity.


I mean, even without the details I don't think that's an issue. Just disclose it and move on. Even here in NY the only issues that could get you into trouble are fraud, tax evasion, etc. I have friends who had criminal convictions who got through just fine because they disclosed it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby encore1101 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:04 am

BlueLotus wrote:
sd5289 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Are JDs a "plus" for social work and K-12 teaching jobs? Looking into alternate careers if my C&F shit doesn't work in my favor.


I may have missed it, but what C&F shit? In my state (assuming you haven't committed tax fraud or the like), so long as you disclose whatever you're pretty much fine.


college disciplinary matter (behavioral, not academic). can't go into too much detail on here. sooooo fucking terrified that i'm gonna fail c&f and all these years of hard work will go to waste. :cry: so i'm looking at JD-Advantage jerbs out of necessity.



Unless your law school is absolute turds, or you didn't disclose to them, I would think that your law school wouldn't admit you if they didn't think you'd pass the C&F.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:21 pm

What about c&f issues with University honor codes? Specifically using music sharing programs in freshmen dorms (I was 17 and stupid as fuck)? Got a letter from the RIAA at the end of the year, had to pay $3000 to settle. Going to disclose, obviously, but worried it might be an issue.

Eta: was not disclosed to my law school bc they did not ask about it, to my recollection.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby fats provolone » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:37 pm

uh i was basically kicked out of school for a similar thing and didn't report it bc honestly i had totally forgotten about it until now and there was no record. so i guess no one cares

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:40 pm

encore1101 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
sd5289 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Are JDs a "plus" for social work and K-12 teaching jobs? Looking into alternate careers if my C&F shit doesn't work in my favor.


I may have missed it, but what C&F shit? In my state (assuming you haven't committed tax fraud or the like), so long as you disclose whatever you're pretty much fine.


college disciplinary matter (behavioral, not academic). can't go into too much detail on here. sooooo fucking terrified that i'm gonna fail c&f and all these years of hard work will go to waste. :cry: so i'm looking at JD-Advantage jerbs out of necessity.



Unless your law school is absolute turds, or you didn't disclose to them, I would think that your law school wouldn't admit you if they didn't think you'd pass the C&F.


wasn't there a guy at Tulane a few years back who was admitted even though he was a convicted murderer? some schools care more about $$$ than whether their grads will pass the BAR.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JCougar » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:55 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
sd5289 wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Are JDs a "plus" for social work and K-12 teaching jobs? Looking into alternate careers if my C&F shit doesn't work in my favor.


I may have missed it, but what C&F shit? In my state (assuming you haven't committed tax fraud or the like), so long as you disclose whatever you're pretty much fine.


college disciplinary matter (behavioral, not academic). can't go into too much detail on here. sooooo fucking terrified that i'm gonna fail c&f and all these years of hard work will go to waste. :cry: so i'm looking at JD-Advantage jerbs out of necessity.


Just report it. It doesn't sound like anything you'd not be able to pass C&F for. Unless it was somehow related to fraud/financial malpractice/deceit, you're almost certainly good. And even if it was, the fact that it was handled by the college rather than the police tells me that it probably wasn't major, so I doubt you should worry.

Honesty is the #1 concern with these things. I passed and I had (and still have) an unpaid debt with a certain internet provider that thinks it can just make up whatever number it wants, send you a bill, and report you to collections if you protest payment. But I disclosed that on my bar app, including letters I sent the company asking them to correct my bill, gave them the circumstances, etc. I just said that it was basically a bogus bill and a mistake, and that I was never going to pay them ever, unless a judge ordered me to. Of course, this company is well-known for scamming its customers. Nobody cared.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dr. Review » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:05 pm

fats provolone wrote:uh i was basically kicked out of school for a similar thing and didn't report it bc honestly i had totally forgotten about it until now and there was no record. so i guess no one cares

How did you forget something like that?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What about c&f issues with University honor codes? Specifically using music sharing programs in freshmen dorms (I was 17 and stupid as fuck)? Got a letter from the RIAA at the end of the year, had to pay $3000 to settle. Going to disclose, obviously, but worried it might be an issue.

Eta: was not disclosed to my law school bc they did not ask about it, to my recollection.

I know multiple people who got in trouble for similar things and had no problem whatsoever with C&F.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:51 pm

fats provolone wrote:uh i was basically kicked out of school for a similar thing and didn't report it bc honestly i had totally forgotten about it until now and there was no record. so i guess no one cares

Good to know. Spoke to an admin at the law school and they said to ask for my UG official record so that I can check to see if there's any mention of it there, so I'm going to do that just in case. Glad to hear that others have had this issue and haven't ran into trouble with C&F though.
Holly Golightly wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What about c&f issues with University honor codes? Specifically using music sharing programs in freshmen dorms (I was 17 and stupid as fuck)? Got a letter from the RIAA at the end of the year, had to pay $3000 to settle. Going to disclose, obviously, but worried it might be an issue.

Eta: was not disclosed to my law school bc they did not ask about it, to my recollection.

I know multiple people who got in trouble for similar things and had no problem whatsoever with C&F.

Do you happen to know if they disclosed it?

Thanks for the advice, makes me way less worried about it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby fats provolone » Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:48 pm

Dr. Review wrote:
fats provolone wrote:uh i was basically kicked out of school for a similar thing and didn't report it bc honestly i had totally forgotten about it until now and there was no record. so i guess no one cares

How did you forget something like that?

i have a long and storied past and a shit memory

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby crysmissmichelle » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:45 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Are JDs a "plus" for social work and K-12 teaching jobs? Looking into alternate careers if C&F shit doesn't work in my favor.



I doubt JD is a plus for k-12 unless you're planning to go into admin AND get an ED.D or Ph.D to add to the mix.

With social work, add an MSW and it probably would be a plus.

Also consider administrative police work where you are working with statistical data and legal jargon. . .met an MSW doing quasi legal work today that could benefit from a JD.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:22 am

L'13 grad here, wanting to get something permanent, preferably outside of actual legal practice.

My undergraduate major is a business major that isn't finance or accounting. I worked in finance/insurance (in my target market) for one year between college and law school and performed well there. Then I went to a T20 (outside of my target market) and finished bottom 25%. Now I am back in my target market, having passed the bar and been admitted to practice there, but things have not panned out on the job market. Might my finance/insurance background help me land a compliance job here? Or are compliance jobs hard to come by? Alternatively I am considering returning to my prior career track. Any insight is appreciated.

ETA: My market is a secondary market with a reasonably healthy economy.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sandcastle45 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:56 pm

I'm feeling depressed lately. I had a law clerk/"associate" job a while ago where I was paid shit. I could handle the being paid shit part but it got to a point where like I just fucking hated it so much. My boss was a jerk, he made me feel like an idiot and completely incompetent. Whatever, I lined up a part-time job, although it's more money per hour in a non-JD field I am really interested in and actually want to spend the rest of my life working in. However, due to admin stuff, it's just literally taking me forever to start it. It was supposed to be a little while ago, and now who knows when it's going to be? Meanwhile, I've just gotten depressed. Like I want to just start this job but due to stuff out of my control, it's taking forever. Meanwhile, I'm sitting at home, twiddling my thumbs, which was fine for like 2 weeks, but now I'm just like ugh. It's not like I work in a medical field or something where it's easier to pick up something per diem.

I don't know, a lot of my depression just mostly stems from deep and utter regret about going to and finishing law school. I honestly don't know why I went. I'm deep in debt right now which should be the main catalyst behind the depression, but honestly it's more the fact that I wasted 3 years of my life on something I don't want to do and actually apparently suck at. And like where do I go from here? I honestly don't want to spend more money/loans on getting another degree and at this point degrees seem worthless. Does anyone get what I'm saying? It's just depressing, like I had applied to so many jobs in this field before and only heard back from 2. I've done plenty of internships, especially in this field. It's just insanely depressing, feeling like you wasted your life on something that is now actively screwing you in pursuing things you are more interested in.

Thanks for listening.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JCougar » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:06 pm

sandcastle45 wrote:I'm feeling depressed lately. I had a law clerk/"associate" job a while ago where I was paid shit. I could handle the being paid shit part but it got to a point where like I just fucking hated it so much. My boss was a jerk, he made me feel like an idiot and completely incompetent. Whatever, I lined up a part-time job, although it's more money per hour in a non-JD field I am really interested in and actually want to spend the rest of my life working in. However, due to admin stuff, it's just literally taking me forever to start it. It was supposed to be a little while ago, and now who knows when it's going to be? Meanwhile, I've just gotten depressed. Like I want to just start this job but due to stuff out of my control, it's taking forever. Meanwhile, I'm sitting at home, twiddling my thumbs, which was fine for like 2 weeks, but now I'm just like ugh. It's not like I work in a medical field or something where it's easier to pick up something per diem.

I don't know, a lot of my depression just mostly stems from deep and utter regret about going to and finishing law school. I honestly don't know why I went. I'm deep in debt right now which should be the main catalyst behind the depression, but honestly it's more the fact that I wasted 3 years of my life on something I don't want to do and actually apparently suck at. And like where do I go from here? I honestly don't want to spend more money/loans on getting another degree and at this point degrees seem worthless. Does anyone get what I'm saying? It's just depressing, like I had applied to so many jobs in this field before and only heard back from 2. I've done plenty of internships, especially in this field. It's just insanely depressing, feeling like you wasted your life on something that is now actively screwing you in pursuing things you are more interested in.

Thanks for listening.


If it makes you feel any better, I've been waiting for over a year for admin-type stuff to pan out. I've been volunteering in public service in the meantime. It seems like a comedy of errors--one disaster/budget issue after another--as to why X employer has to wait longer and longer to hire. And nothing is guaranteed, either. The supposed near-entry level job I've been waiting for (at least as far as minimum requirements go) has had very competent attorneys with like 20 years of experience apply. Even though I've done great work and shown my commitment by volunteering, how do you justify hiring a schlep who was never trained how to practice law over someone who can hit the ground running at full speed?

My bosses have been great, but the stories I hear from others as to how they are treated in this profession are just beyond belief. The fact that people are so desperate for any paying job in law because there's so few openings and so many attorneys turns a lot of bosses into mini-tyrants. Who cares if you quit, when there are 1,000 other desperate suckers they could hire with a snap of the fingers?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:09 pm

Hey all, I exited the vale earlier this week. '14 grad with grades between top 25% and median at a regional T2 that was pretty much unheard of in my target home market. I didn't realize I wanted to work in my home market until about halfway through law school, so by then, I had to just tough it out and hope for the best. Thankfully, I worked both summers in my home market and networked my butt off. My market is very insular (think Seattle/Denver), and my competition was stiff. Honestly for a while there, I didn't think I was ever going to get a job, but I got really lucky. I interviewed with a partner at a firm for a job that was advertised online. He and I really clicked, and now I'm working at a small firm in my ideal practice area. It's a small, but highly regarded, firm

I just wanted to say good luck to everyone, and keep trying. It is really tough, but do everything you can to meet people in the legal community and do per diem or volunteer work if you can. I found the advice on this board comforting, but in a lot of ways, inapplicable to my situation because of how insular my market is. I often found myself doing things very differently than what people suggested here and in other law forums. And I don't mean that in an ungrateful way, just that not all advice that works in NYC/Chi, etc. markets will work everywhere. So, if you find yourself in a "nontraditional" market, feel free to reach out to me at vodka.esq(a)gmail.com. I'm happy to share my experiences and what worked or didn't work for me.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Iforgotmylastone » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hey all, I exited the vale earlier this week. '14 grad with grades between top 25% and median at a regional T2 that was pretty much unheard of in my target home market. I didn't realize I wanted to work in my home market until about halfway through law school, so by then, I had to just tough it out and hope for the best. Thankfully, I worked both summers in my home market and networked my butt off. My market is very insular (think Seattle/Denver), and my competition was stiff. Honestly for a while there, I didn't think I was ever going to get a job, but I got really lucky. I interviewed with a partner at a firm for a job that was advertised online. He and I really clicked, and now I'm working at a small firm in my ideal practice area. It's a small, but highly regarded, firm

I just wanted to say good luck to everyone, and keep trying. It is really tough, but do everything you can to meet people in the legal community and do per diem or volunteer work if you can. I found the advice on this board comforting, but in a lot of ways, inapplicable to my situation because of how insular my market is. I often found myself doing things very differently than what people suggested here and in other law forums. And I don't mean that in an ungrateful way, just that not all advice that works in NYC/Chi, etc. markets will work everywhere. So, if you find yourself in a "nontraditional" market, feel free to reach out to me at vodka.esq(a)gmail.com. I'm happy to share my experiences and what worked or didn't work for me.


Congratulations and best of luck!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby keyboardguy » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:56 pm

Does anyone know if the time between screeners and callbacks are longer for entry-level positions than with summer associate ones? Coming up on a week of silence which, if I remember right for OCI, was generally not a great sign (this is for a bigger, non-regional market; e.g. NY/LA). Just want to adjust expectations accordingly.
Last edited by keyboardguy on Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey all, I exited the vale earlier this week. '14 grad with grades between top 25% and median at a regional T2 that was pretty much unheard of in my target home market. I didn't realize I wanted to work in my home market until about halfway through law school, so by then, I had to just tough it out and hope for the best. Thankfully, I worked both summers in my home market and networked my butt off. My market is very insular (think Seattle/Denver), and my competition was stiff. Honestly for a while there, I didn't think I was ever going to get a job, but I got really lucky. I interviewed with a partner at a firm for a job that was advertised online. He and I really clicked, and now I'm working at a small firm in my ideal practice area. It's a small, but highly regarded, firm

I just wanted to say good luck to everyone, and keep trying. It is really tough, but do everything you can to meet people in the legal community and do per diem or volunteer work if you can. I found the advice on this board comforting, but in a lot of ways, inapplicable to my situation because of how insular my market is. I often found myself doing things very differently than what people suggested here and in other law forums. And I don't mean that in an ungrateful way, just that not all advice that works in NYC/Chi, etc. markets will work everywhere. So, if you find yourself in a "nontraditional" market, feel free to reach out to me at vodka.esq(a)gmail.com. I'm happy to share my experiences and what worked or didn't work for me.

Thats a solid story bro grats

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:09 pm

keyboardguy wrote:Does anyone know if the time between screeners and callbacks are longer for entry-level positions than with summer associate ones? Coming up on a week of silence which, if I remember right for OCI, was generally not a great sign (this is for a bigger, non-regional market). Just want to adjust expectations accordingly.

Longer for sure

Smaller places usually don't have a well oiled recruiting dept (or a recruiter at all) and frankly candidates who interview aren't as important as actual work

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:03 pm

Another day, another rejection. Why do places bother interviewing me if they're going to hire someone with more experience anyway?

keyboardguy
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby keyboardguy » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:54 pm

baal hadad wrote:
keyboardguy wrote:Does anyone know if the time between screeners and callbacks are longer for entry-level positions than with summer associate ones? Coming up on a week of silence which, if I remember right for OCI, was generally not a great sign (this is for a bigger, non-regional market). Just want to adjust expectations accordingly.

Longer for sure

Smaller places usually don't have a well oiled recruiting dept (or a recruiter at all) and frankly candidates who interview aren't as important as actual work


Sorry for being unclear! This is a biglaw entry-level position.




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