The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:58 pm

I get more depressed as every day passes since I passed the bar exam.

The job search seems so hopeless. No responses. Not seeing many openings. I feel so fucked.

Seems like getting no-offered from 2L SA (through no fault of my own) ruined my career before it could even start.

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:I get more depressed as every day passes since I passed the bar exam.

The job search seems so hopeless. No responses. Not seeing many openings. I feel so fucked.

Seems like getting no-offered from 2L SA (through no fault of my own) ruined my career before it could even start.

Keep your head up man

It's a hard road but it doesn't have to ruin your career

If you're a 3L as weird as this sounds it's still early

Nothin to do but keep pluggin

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:34 am

baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I get more depressed as every day passes since I passed the bar exam.

The job search seems so hopeless. No responses. Not seeing many openings. I feel so fucked.

Seems like getting no-offered from 2L SA (through no fault of my own) ruined my career before it could even start.

Keep your head up man

It's a hard road but it doesn't have to ruin your career

If you're a 3L as weird as this sounds it's still early

Nothin to do but keep pluggin

Wish i was still a 3L. Passed the bar. Went to a decent school (T20). All my friends think it's easy to find a job and I'll be some rich big shot. I wish.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:19 pm

For all you 3Ls out there who are getting worried, words of hope: I lurked here for a long time while I was looking. I was at a T14 with decent grades but struck out at 2L EIW. One of my really good friends did the same.

Life got complicated and I missed some school, as well as a good chunk of 3L OCI, because of personal reasons. I spent the rest of 3L hustling but ended up with nothing after graduation and the bar. I was terrified.

The stars finally aligned in August and I am now clerking. I know it sounds trite, but if I had gotten a job earlier, I would not have been looking at clerkships and would have missed out on this great opportunity.

My friend stuck to her guns and kept chasing her dream job, which she landed with a Magic Circle firm only this past month. She also says that if she had gotten a job earlier, she would not have been around or available for this opportunity.

All of this is to say, the process is terrifying and stressful, but the one silver lining is that when a good opportunity comes along, you will be ready to snatch it up because you were available. Don't give up hope.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:48 pm

3L in the Vale. Just got rejection letter from the one and only clerkship interview I somehow managed to get.

This sucks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:54 pm

What's a good example of a JD-Advantage jerb for someone who is public interest oriented?

I want to practice law but there is a (small) chance that I won't be able to do so b/c of C&F issues. All of my legal work experience is PD/Legal Aid.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For all you 3Ls out there who are getting worried, words of hope: I lurked here for a long time while I was looking. I was at a T14 with decent grades but struck out at 2L EIW. One of my really good friends did the same.

Life got complicated and I missed some school, as well as a good chunk of 3L OCI, because of personal reasons. I spent the rest of 3L hustling but ended up with nothing after graduation and the bar. I was terrified.

The stars finally aligned in August and I am now clerking. I know it sounds trite, but if I had gotten a job earlier, I would not have been looking at clerkships and would have missed out on this great opportunity.

My friend stuck to her guns and kept chasing her dream job, which she landed with a Magic Circle firm only this past month. She also says that if she had gotten a job earlier, she would not have been around or available for this opportunity.

All of this is to say, the process is terrifying and stressful, but the one silver lining is that when a good opportunity comes along, you will be ready to snatch it up because you were available. Don't give up hope.


This. Seriously. I was at a T20 with top 10% grades and struck out at OCI feeling like all hope was lost and I'd never be successful in this profession. I ended up landing a state-level clerkship, during which I grew up a lot. I mass mailed firms during clerkship and landed mid-law (30 lawyers, market pay). I love this job. I don't think I'd be happier at any of the big-law firms I interviewed with as a 2L. Seriously, hang in there. It feels like the end of the world but it's not. Keep up the hustle.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For all you 3Ls out there who are getting worried, words of hope: I lurked here for a long time while I was looking. I was at a T14 with decent grades but struck out at 2L EIW. One of my really good friends did the same.

Life got complicated and I missed some school, as well as a good chunk of 3L OCI, because of personal reasons. I spent the rest of 3L hustling but ended up with nothing after graduation and the bar. I was terrified.

The stars finally aligned in August and I am now clerking. I know it sounds trite, but if I had gotten a job earlier, I would not have been looking at clerkships and would have missed out on this great opportunity.

My friend stuck to her guns and kept chasing her dream job, which she landed with a Magic Circle firm only this past month. She also says that if she had gotten a job earlier, she would not have been around or available for this opportunity.

All of this is to say, the process is terrifying and stressful, but the one silver lining is that when a good opportunity comes along, you will be ready to snatch it up because you were available. Don't give up hope.


This. Seriously. I was at a T20 with top 10% grades and struck out at OCI feeling like all hope was lost and I'd never be successful in this profession. I ended up landing a state-level clerkship, during which I grew up a lot. I mass mailed firms during clerkship and landed mid-law (30 lawyers, market pay). I love this job. I don't think I'd be happier at any of the big-law firms I interviewed with as a 2L. Seriously, hang in there. It feels like the end of the world but it's not. Keep up the hustle.

Really happy for you guys but I don't think most of us have top 10% grades or are from t14's.

With that said, it is encouraging to hear success stories. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:11 pm

Anyone here in a relationship and seeing a strain that unemployment is placing on it? When I first passed the bar it wasn't too bad, but now my unemployment is becoming a reoccurring theme in arguments with my fiance, who is in grad school and doesn't make much as a student himself. We live together and he currently covers all the rent and most food...we're also engaged and would like to plan a wedding (serious planning obviously won't start until I get a job).

He knows I'm not just being lazy and that I am trying to find work, but money is still a really touchy subject for us and he uses it as a weapon when we argue ("Well, I am basically 100% supporting the both of us right now..blah blah blah at least I'm not in major debt blah blah blah").

I know he just says it because he's upset, but it still stings.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone here in a relationship and seeing a strain that unemployment is placing on it? When I first passed the bar it wasn't too bad, but now my unemployment is becoming a reoccurring theme in arguments with my fiance, who is in grad school and doesn't make much as a student himself. We live together and he currently covers all the rent and most food...we're also engaged and would like to plan a wedding (serious planning obviously won't start until I get a job).

He knows I'm not just being lazy and that I am trying to find work, but money is still a really touchy subject for us and he uses it as a weapon when we argue ("Well, I am basically 100% supporting the both of us right now..blah blah blah at least I'm not in major debt blah blah blah").

I know he just says it because he's upset, but it still stings.


Can't you work at the mall or something and at least bring some stuff in...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I went to a TTT on a full ride to avoid taking loans, graduated in the top five students with an almost perfect GPA, clerked for a magistrate judge for a year in one of the more "prestigious" districts, and am clerking for a district judge now in a big city where I am barred and want to practice. I do not have a personality disorder, am not horrifically ugly, and I also have other legal experience actually drafting motions and doing other real substantive work. For the past six months, I have steadily sent out applications (2-3 a day average, some days many more, some days less) to firms large and small, non-profits, DOJ, and other government agencies, and I have received absolutely no response whatsoever. I have targeted firms with alumni from my law school, I have hit up old contacts, and I have reached out cold-email style to people at firms in the hopes of just getting a cup of coffee. Nothing has come of any of it.

A lot of people have suggested that my current judge should help me out and I have asked on occasion for her to make calls. She genuinely wants to help I think but she has been on the bench a long time and the contacts she had from her past jobs have either retired or gone elsewhere. She doesn't like making cold calls to people she doesn't know and I don't blame her and how effective could the call be anyway? I didn't think it would be a picnic finding a job in this economy or this market, and I now know how bad of an idea it was to go to a TTT, but after clerking twice I thought I would at least be able to get some interest.

It is even more disheartening that 3Ls who I have hired as interns who went to decent (not even T14) schools and are only maybe in the top 1/3 of their class are getting good offers with ease but I am struggling utterly to find ANYthing. True, I haven't really applied to firms at that one final level of shitlaw "Law Offices of ______" where you work for 35k or less for a guy who graduated 4 yrs before you and wants to boss you around in loser small $ civil rights cases. Maybe that's the level I need to go for, but honestly if that is all that is out there for me, it's really so unappealing that I think I would rather leave law altogether. With no debt this seems like a possibility --- although I wonder who would hire me now, given my litigation-specific experience.

I actually am one of those rare birds who really does enjoy law, but my clerkship is up soon and I have been giving switching careers more and more thought lately. I can't expect anyone to give me advice here, mostly I'm just writing to commiserate. It is a foul market out there (for some of us). Here's to better luck in the New Year.



Apply to the shitlaw firms. If you have to do that for awhile, there are worse things in life, and you'll make it out of there eventually. You'll end up alright in the worst case scenario.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone here in a relationship and seeing a strain that unemployment is placing on it? When I first passed the bar it wasn't too bad, but now my unemployment is becoming a reoccurring theme in arguments with my fiance, who is in grad school and doesn't make much as a student himself. We live together and he currently covers all the rent and most food...we're also engaged and would like to plan a wedding (serious planning obviously won't start until I get a job).

He knows I'm not just being lazy and that I am trying to find work, but money is still a really touchy subject for us and he uses it as a weapon when we argue ("Well, I am basically 100% supporting the both of us right now..blah blah blah at least I'm not in major debt blah blah blah").

I know he just says it because he's upset, but it still stings.


Have you been looking at contract work, doc review, or even volunteering?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone here in a relationship and seeing a strain that unemployment is placing on it? When I first passed the bar it wasn't too bad, but now my unemployment is becoming a reoccurring theme in arguments with my fiance, who is in grad school and doesn't make much as a student himself. We live together and he currently covers all the rent and most food...we're also engaged and would like to plan a wedding (serious planning obviously won't start until I get a job).

He knows I'm not just being lazy and that I am trying to find work, but money is still a really touchy subject for us and he uses it as a weapon when we argue ("Well, I am basically 100% supporting the both of us right now..blah blah blah at least I'm not in major debt blah blah blah").

I know he just says it because he's upset, but it still stings.

That sucks. Unemployment also put a strain on mine but in a different way. It's hard for spouses to understand the psychological strain and depression associated with unemployment if they aren't in that situation themselves. Is it possible to get some sort of part time job like clerking for a firm while you hunt for something full-time?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:24 pm

Just want to say that I've been in the vale since graduating in 2013 from a top 10 with horrible grades (bottom 10 percent). Well after a long very hard road I ended up with multiple offers in my top choice home market. Not firm jobs but definitely the type of jobs I was looking for. It can take a LOT to find a job ITE but even with bad grades it is possible. Don't give up guys and apply for jobs as often as you can. One of the offers came from a position that I forgot I had even applied for. Also my personal opinion--if you strike out focus as much as you can on the market that you have ties to. It can be tough but in the long run having a resume that screams I am from this area etc. just works best in the long run when you don't have great grades etc.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone here in a relationship and seeing a strain that unemployment is placing on it? When I first passed the bar it wasn't too bad, but now my unemployment is becoming a reoccurring theme in arguments with my fiance, who is in grad school and doesn't make much as a student himself. We live together and he currently covers all the rent and most food...we're also engaged and would like to plan a wedding (serious planning obviously won't start until I get a job).

He knows I'm not just being lazy and that I am trying to find work, but money is still a really touchy subject for us and he uses it as a weapon when we argue ("Well, I am basically 100% supporting the both of us right now..blah blah blah at least I'm not in major debt blah blah blah").

I know he just says it because he's upset, but it still stings.


I know this isn't a relationship advice thread, but your fiance is being an asshole by using that against you. I would think long and hard about marrying someone willing to go there in an argument.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:38 pm

Is a JD a scarlet letter for K-12 teaching positions? Or would it merit a pay bump since it is an advanced degree?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:25 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone here in a relationship and seeing a strain that unemployment is placing on it? When I first passed the bar it wasn't too bad, but now my unemployment is becoming a reoccurring theme in arguments with my fiance, who is in grad school and doesn't make much as a student himself. We live together and he currently covers all the rent and most food...we're also engaged and would like to plan a wedding (serious planning obviously won't start until I get a job).

He knows I'm not just being lazy and that I am trying to find work, but money is still a really touchy subject for us and he uses it as a weapon when we argue ("Well, I am basically 100% supporting the both of us right now..blah blah blah at least I'm not in major debt blah blah blah").

I know he just says it because he's upset, but it still stings.


I know this isn't a relationship advice thread, but your fiance is being an asshole by using that against you. I would think long and hard about marrying someone willing to go there in an argument.


I second this. Think about all of the hardships you will face that are 10x worse than short-term (or even long-term) unemployment down the road, and be honest with yourself whether you can bear through it all with this person.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby crysmissmichelle » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:26 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Is a JD a scarlet letter for K-12 teaching positions? Or would it merit a pay bump since it is an advanced degree?


It's not a scarlet letter, but if it is long term, what would you do when you get a law-job, jump ship or stay?

Also, are you licensed to teach or willing to take the classes to get licensed if you meet the requirements for a provisional license?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:41 pm

How do you explain it in a cover letter when you just recently graduated (i.e. just this past semester)?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I get more depressed as every day passes since I passed the bar exam.

The job search seems so hopeless. No responses. Not seeing many openings. I feel so fucked.

Seems like getting no-offered from 2L SA (through no fault of my own) ruined my career before it could even start.


I'm in the same position (no offered 2L SA). If I don't get an actual attorney position with a salary by the end of 2015, I feel my career will be over before it started.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone here in a relationship and seeing a strain that unemployment is placing on it? When I first passed the bar it wasn't too bad, but now my unemployment is becoming a reoccurring theme in arguments with my fiance, who is in grad school and doesn't make much as a student himself. We live together and he currently covers all the rent and most food...we're also engaged and would like to plan a wedding (serious planning obviously won't start until I get a job).

He knows I'm not just being lazy and that I am trying to find work, but money is still a really touchy subject for us and he uses it as a weapon when we argue ("Well, I am basically 100% supporting the both of us right now..blah blah blah at least I'm not in major debt blah blah blah").

I know he just says it because he's upset, but it still stings.

This type of resentment is understandable but troubling. I know my husband is concerned/frustrated about my not having a job despite passing the bar. But he looks at the money concerns as ours and doesn't seem to resent me, thankfully.

This might sounds weird but maybe spend more time outside of the house? Like applying to jobs from Starbucks or something. He probably knows you are working hard to change your situation but somehow seeing someone on the couch (/at home) day after day can breed feelings that might not exist with just a few changes. Of course that won't make money appear but you can also do side jobs in the meantime to make money (law clerk, tutor, heck even Uber.)

HTH

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SFB222 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just want to say that I've been in the vale since graduating in 2013 from a top 10 with horrible grades (bottom 10 percent). Well after a long very hard road I ended up with multiple offers in my top choice home market. Not firm jobs but definitely the type of jobs I was looking for. It can take a LOT to find a job ITE but even with bad grades it is possible. Don't give up guys and apply for jobs as often as you can. One of the offers came from a position that I forgot I had even applied for. Also my personal opinion--if you strike out focus as much as you can on the market that you have ties to. It can be tough but in the long run having a resume that screams I am from this area etc. just works best in the long run when you don't have great grades etc.


I'm at a firm now and finding it very difficult to get out to a comparable firm because of my grades (even though I've been out for 3 years now).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:01 pm

I'm the anon you quoted. Not trying to be insensitive but if you notice I said that I did not get offers from firms. To be honest bad grades never really cease being a problem @ the type of firms that TLS focuses on unless you find a way to bring in your own book of business that appeals to them. But considering what it's like to actually work @ those firms I personally stopped caring. I think you should do some self evaluation and ask if that type of job is really the only kind that will make you happy.

Also you're already at a firm so what's the problem?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SFB222 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm the anon you quoted. Not trying to be insensitive but if you notice I said that I did not get offers from firms. To be honest bad grades never really cease being a problem @ the type of firms that TLS focuses on unless you find a way to bring in your own book of business that appeals to them. But considering what it's like to actually work @ those firms I personally stopped caring. I think you should do some self evaluation and ask if that type of job is really the only kind that will make you happy.

Also you're already at a firm so what's the problem?


Can you PM me?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SFB222 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm the anon you quoted. Not trying to be insensitive but if you notice I said that I did not get offers from firms. To be honest bad grades never really cease being a problem @ the type of firms that TLS focuses on unless you find a way to bring in your own book of business that appeals to them. But considering what it's like to actually work @ those firms I personally stopped caring. I think you should do some self evaluation and ask if that type of job is really the only kind that will make you happy.

Also you're already at a firm so what's the problem?


Just having problems there and feel overwhelmed by the fact that I can't leave.




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