The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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kykiske
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kykiske » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:24 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
kykiske wrote:As a current 3L, I'm am becoming more and more panicked as the days go by that I will be unemployed at graduation.

I've networked with attorneys at various firms throughout these past few years. Stayed in good contact with them. And I'm still going out and meeting more people. I'm not a huge fan of the big bar-sponsored events. But I've been successful in networking with many attorneys 1 on 1 over lunch, coffee, drinks, etc.

I actually have a 2L SA under my belt, but have yet to hear from them on a full-time offer. Good performance reviews all around during the summer. Good fit too. I really want to work here. All I know is that they are still evaluating their needs for a 2015 associate.

I've been checking my school's job page every day for the past few months, and there's literally nothing aside from writing competitions. There aren't even part-time law clerk positions.

I feel so lost.

You might be able to apply to some other types of positions - for example, I know that the Department of Labor Office of Administrative Law Judges (in San Francisco) is hiring clerks for 2-year clerkship positions right now. Last I heard, they won't begin interviewing until January, so there should still be time to send in your application. Feel free to PM me for contact info for that position.

If that's something you're interested in, you might want to contact clerks for ALJs personally to see if they are still hiring. ALJs don't typically hire via OSCAR or traditional methods (ie Symplicity) so it can be hard to find out about jobs like that.

Does your school run any public interest/government career conferences? I know Northwestern hosts the "Midwestern Public Interest Law Career Consortium," which is like a mini-OCI for PI/Gov based summer and post-grad jobs. I don't know if you would be open to that sort of a thing or if you're firm-or-bust, though.


Man, thanks so much. I take some solace on how everyone on this board is so willing to help and has kind words to say.

I don't know if it'd be right to call me firm-or-bust, but I'm pretty close to that mentality. I'd substantially prefer starting out in private practice.

I've run into some current first-year associates in private practice that tell me how they didn't have a 2L SA, yet found an entry-level position with firms in my state, ranging from 20-lawyer firms to 150-lawyer firms.

The career center says that, "Oh, just keep checking Symplicity and network. Small and mid-size firms hire from now until after you're licensed." I don't know how true that is. Maybe it is.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:25 pm

I have finally realized that in my market, only people with clerkship experience will get hired in entry-level positions at firms. The rest of us, even if we have demonstrated good writing skills, should just rot on the sidewalk. Happy holidays.

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logdog
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby logdog » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:40 pm

kykiske wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
kykiske wrote:As a current 3L, I'm am becoming more and more panicked as the days go by that I will be unemployed at graduation.

I've networked with attorneys at various firms throughout these past few years. Stayed in good contact with them. And I'm still going out and meeting more people. I'm not a huge fan of the big bar-sponsored events. But I've been successful in networking with many attorneys 1 on 1 over lunch, coffee, drinks, etc.

I actually have a 2L SA under my belt, but have yet to hear from them on a full-time offer. Good performance reviews all around during the summer. Good fit too. I really want to work here. All I know is that they are still evaluating their needs for a 2015 associate.

I've been checking my school's job page every day for the past few months, and there's literally nothing aside from writing competitions. There aren't even part-time law clerk positions.

I feel so lost.

You might be able to apply to some other types of positions - for example, I know that the Department of Labor Office of Administrative Law Judges (in San Francisco) is hiring clerks for 2-year clerkship positions right now. Last I heard, they won't begin interviewing until January, so there should still be time to send in your application. Feel free to PM me for contact info for that position.

If that's something you're interested in, you might want to contact clerks for ALJs personally to see if they are still hiring. ALJs don't typically hire via OSCAR or traditional methods (ie Symplicity) so it can be hard to find out about jobs like that.

Does your school run any public interest/government career conferences? I know Northwestern hosts the "Midwestern Public Interest Law Career Consortium," which is like a mini-OCI for PI/Gov based summer and post-grad jobs. I don't know if you would be open to that sort of a thing or if you're firm-or-bust, though.


Man, thanks so much. I take some solace on how everyone on this board is so willing to help and has kind words to say.

I don't know if it'd be right to call me firm-or-bust, but I'm pretty close to that mentality. I'd substantially prefer starting out in private practice.

I've run into some current first-year associates in private practice that tell me how they didn't have a 2L SA, yet found an entry-level position with firms in my state, ranging from 20-lawyer firms to 150-lawyer firms.

The career center says that, "Oh, just keep checking Symplicity and network. Small and mid-size firms hire from now until after you're licensed." I don't know how true that is. Maybe it is.


I guess it depends on your market. I didn't have a job until the week after graduation. Then I got three offers within a week of each other. I met with some of my professors and adjuncts for classes I enjoyed and did well in. In the end, I landed my gig riding the recommendations of both a prof and an adjunct in the practice area I was interviewing for. I was stressing hard before then, because I am married with kids, but it all worked out as everyone said it would. Keep the hope alive. I promise you will score something.

kykiske
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kykiske » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:11 pm

logdog wrote:
kykiske wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
kykiske wrote:As a current 3L, I'm am becoming more and more panicked as the days go by that I will be unemployed at graduation.

I've networked with attorneys at various firms throughout these past few years. Stayed in good contact with them. And I'm still going out and meeting more people. I'm not a huge fan of the big bar-sponsored events. But I've been successful in networking with many attorneys 1 on 1 over lunch, coffee, drinks, etc.

I actually have a 2L SA under my belt, but have yet to hear from them on a full-time offer. Good performance reviews all around during the summer. Good fit too. I really want to work here. All I know is that they are still evaluating their needs for a 2015 associate.

I've been checking my school's job page every day for the past few months, and there's literally nothing aside from writing competitions. There aren't even part-time law clerk positions.

I feel so lost.

You might be able to apply to some other types of positions - for example, I know that the Department of Labor Office of Administrative Law Judges (in San Francisco) is hiring clerks for 2-year clerkship positions right now. Last I heard, they won't begin interviewing until January, so there should still be time to send in your application. Feel free to PM me for contact info for that position.

If that's something you're interested in, you might want to contact clerks for ALJs personally to see if they are still hiring. ALJs don't typically hire via OSCAR or traditional methods (ie Symplicity) so it can be hard to find out about jobs like that.

Does your school run any public interest/government career conferences? I know Northwestern hosts the "Midwestern Public Interest Law Career Consortium," which is like a mini-OCI for PI/Gov based summer and post-grad jobs. I don't know if you would be open to that sort of a thing or if you're firm-or-bust, though.


Man, thanks so much. I take some solace on how everyone on this board is so willing to help and has kind words to say.

I don't know if it'd be right to call me firm-or-bust, but I'm pretty close to that mentality. I'd substantially prefer starting out in private practice.

I've run into some current first-year associates in private practice that tell me how they didn't have a 2L SA, yet found an entry-level position with firms in my state, ranging from 20-lawyer firms to 150-lawyer firms.

The career center says that, "Oh, just keep checking Symplicity and network. Small and mid-size firms hire from now until after you're licensed." I don't know how true that is. Maybe it is.


I guess it depends on your market. I didn't have a job until the week after graduation. Then I got three offers within a week of each other. I met with some of my professors and adjuncts for classes I enjoyed and did well in. In the end, I landed my gig riding the recommendations of both a prof and an adjunct in the practice area I was interviewing for. I was stressing hard before then, because I am married with kids, but it all worked out as everyone said it would. Keep the hope alive. I promise you will score something.


Thanks for the bid of confidence.

As a 1L, I was like "Oh, I'll never have to struggle finding a job because I go to a top ranked school."

Wow, not only was I wrong, but also just plain naive.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:40 pm

If a person is offered a small firm position where the base pay is nominal, what is the typical/normal/acceptable amount in share of billing to be offered?

JJDancer
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JJDancer » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:30 pm

Someone from a firm I applied to a few days ago looked at my profile on LinkedIn today - it's the little things that give you hope.

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:04 am

Every time I hear LinkedIn I think, damn, I need to update that thing already. What with my new full time job and all in my favorite sub-field.


It's gonna suck doing this and studying for the bar, but it's better than not having a real income. Everyone keeps telling me, including one of my new bosses, that I need to make sure I pass on my second attempt. Dunno if I'd be fired if I find out in May that I failed again, but pretty stressful either way.



G'luck to the rest of y'all.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:05 pm

Just finished my semester (yeah, Saturday exam). Still no job lined up despite many interviews I thought went well. At least this winter break I can get a preview of what life is going to be like for the next few years after the Bar.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:59 pm

Is there any point in applying to biglaw jobs that ask for 1-3 years experience, where all my experience is kind of tangential and only in the context of law school (coursework, clinic work, etc)?

drs36
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby drs36 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is there any point in applying to biglaw jobs that ask for 1-3 years experience, where all my experience is kind of tangential and only in the context of law school (coursework, clinic work, etc)?


Yes, apply to these. Don't self-select out of the position. They may use 1-3 as a guideline and fully consider entry-level candidates. What's the worst that happens? They say no.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:47 pm

So there's a (law firm) job posting in a practice area that I have literally zero experience in (no work experience or coursework) aside from one of those required 1L courses. The only thing I can put on my resume that even remotely shows interest in that practice area is that as of now, I've accepted a legal job in that area that is supposed to start in February. The job posting I want to apply for starts in the fall. Is it sketchy to list the job that I anticipate starting (but haven't actually started) when applying to new jobs, listed as "Anticipated February 2015"? To be clear, if I got the firm job, I still would plan on starting the other job and sticking with it until the fall or whenever the new job starts (so about 6-7 months).

I'm grateful that I have anything lined up at all, but having gone to law school at sticker, this other job pays significantly better (like double-triple) and is in a much better location. Yes I realize this is rather sneaky/backstabby, but I'm just wondering if the benefits (showing on my resume at least an interest in the area) outweigh the costs (showing that I'm already looking to get out of the job I haven't even started).

Thanks for any input

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:27 pm

fuckin done w/ exams. feels good. would feel better if i had a job. but whatevs. gonna start looking again once grades are back.

bro2baseball
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bro2baseball » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So there's a (law firm) job posting in a practice area that I have literally zero experience in (no work experience or coursework) aside from one of those required 1L courses. The only thing I can put on my resume that even remotely shows interest in that practice area is that as of now, I've accepted a legal job in that area that is supposed to start in February. The job posting I want to apply for starts in the fall. Is it sketchy to list the job that I anticipate starting (but haven't actually started) when applying to new jobs, listed as "Anticipated February 2015"? To be clear, if I got the firm job, I still would plan on starting the other job and sticking with it until the fall or whenever the new job starts (so about 6-7 months).

I'm grateful that I have anything lined up at all, but having gone to law school at sticker, this other job pays significantly better (like double-triple) and is in a much better location. Yes I realize this is rather sneaky/backstabby, but I'm just wondering if the benefits (showing on my resume at least an interest in the area) outweigh the costs (showing that I'm already looking to get out of the job I haven't even started).

Thanks for any input


No authority for this, but I definitely think it would raise flags.

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Tanicius
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tanicius » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:So there's a (law firm) job posting in a practice area that I have literally zero experience in (no work experience or coursework) aside from one of those required 1L courses. The only thing I can put on my resume that even remotely shows interest in that practice area is that as of now, I've accepted a legal job in that area that is supposed to start in February. The job posting I want to apply for starts in the fall. Is it sketchy to list the job that I anticipate starting (but haven't actually started) when applying to new jobs, listed as "Anticipated February 2015"? To be clear, if I got the firm job, I still would plan on starting the other job and sticking with it until the fall or whenever the new job starts (so about 6-7 months).

I'm grateful that I have anything lined up at all, but having gone to law school at sticker, this other job pays significantly better (like double-triple) and is in a much better location. Yes I realize this is rather sneaky/backstabby, but I'm just wondering if the benefits (showing on my resume at least an interest in the area) outweigh the costs (showing that I'm already looking to get out of the job I haven't even started).

Thanks for any input


So, what's your plan if an employer contacts your February 2015 employer and puts them on notice (either accidentally or on purpose) that you haven't even started your job and are already looking for different jobs?

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BVest
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:fuckin done w/ exams. feels good. would feel better if i had a job. but whatevs. gonna start looking again once grades are back.


Don't you have plenty of grades already? It's not like we just finished first semester 1L.

[ETA: Didn't mean that to come off as dickish as I think it did. Sorry.]

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:22 am

BVest wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:fuckin done w/ exams. feels good. would feel better if i had a job. but whatevs. gonna start looking again once grades are back.


Don't you have plenty of grades already? It's not like we just finished first semester 1L.

[ETA: Didn't mean that to come off as dickish as I think it did. Sorry.]

No worries... It's three-fold: 1) hopefully boost gpa, 2) figure it's probably best to wait until after the holidays, and 3) I could use a breather before I hit the onslaught of apps again

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:04 pm

I feel like bitching and complaining right now. I have posted ITT several times. My situation is that I'm working at my dream gig right now but there is no guarantee that I'm going to get hired ("waiting to watch the market").

Lately I'm feeling pretty doom and gloom because since I left the office for finals/christmas break my situation has gotten a lot worst (yay oil prices being lowest in five years!).

Also, grades are coming in and they fucking blow. I knew this would happen since I was working around 25-30 hours a week - but shit. Now I'm nervous as fuck my classrank will take a huge hit and suck when I'm back on the market looking for work. So definitely going to mass mail like fuck the next few days before I have to slap my new shit GPA on my resume.

So, fuck.

taway
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby taway » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:10 pm

I applied for a job a month ago. I blow all of the qualification "requirements" out of the water and I also meet some of the "preferred" requirements (only one I don't meet is speaking Spanish). After two weeks I get an email from someone that works there. Apparently it is an email that went to all applicants seeking information about breadth of experience in that particular area. Admittedly, my experience in the area is limited, but it exists. At that point I'm guessing that they have several qualified candidates and just want to widdle some out. Right? NO.

They just re-posted the listing. No change to the qualifications or anything. What the hell? So I once again applied for the job that I am qualified for under their own description and I expect to get beaten by no one. Again.

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fats provolone
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby fats provolone » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:12 pm

...wut

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:44 am

kykiske wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
kykiske wrote:As a current 3L, I'm am becoming more and more panicked as the days go by that I will be unemployed at graduation.

I've networked with attorneys at various firms throughout these past few years. Stayed in good contact with them. And I'm still going out and meeting more people. I'm not a huge fan of the big bar-sponsored events. But I've been successful in networking with many attorneys 1 on 1 over lunch, coffee, drinks, etc.

I actually have a 2L SA under my belt, but have yet to hear from them on a full-time offer. Good performance reviews all around during the summer. Good fit too. I really want to work here. All I know is that they are still evaluating their needs for a 2015 associate.

I've been checking my school's job page every day for the past few months, and there's literally nothing aside from writing competitions. There aren't even part-time law clerk positions.

I feel so lost.

You might be able to apply to some other types of positions - for example, I know that the Department of Labor Office of Administrative Law Judges (in San Francisco) is hiring clerks for 2-year clerkship positions right now. Last I heard, they won't begin interviewing until January, so there should still be time to send in your application. Feel free to PM me for contact info for that position.

If that's something you're interested in, you might want to contact clerks for ALJs personally to see if they are still hiring. ALJs don't typically hire via OSCAR or traditional methods (ie Symplicity) so it can be hard to find out about jobs like that.

Does your school run any public interest/government career conferences? I know Northwestern hosts the "Midwestern Public Interest Law Career Consortium," which is like a mini-OCI for PI/Gov based summer and post-grad jobs. I don't know if you would be open to that sort of a thing or if you're firm-or-bust, though.


Man, thanks so much. I take some solace on how everyone on this board is so willing to help and has kind words to say.

I don't know if it'd be right to call me firm-or-bust, but I'm pretty close to that mentality. I'd substantially prefer starting out in private practice.

I've run into some current first-year associates in private practice that tell me how they didn't have a 2L SA, yet found an entry-level position with firms in my state, ranging from 20-lawyer firms to 150-lawyer firms.

The career center says that, "Oh, just keep checking Symplicity and network. Small and mid-size firms hire from now until after you're licensed." I don't know how true that is. Maybe it is.


Being firm or bust is a horrible mentality and will most likely keep you jobless and depressed as that ship has mostly sailed. You need to focus on passing the bar and then landing any legal employment that will provide you a salary for 12 months.

hiima3L
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:57 pm

kykiske wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
kykiske wrote:As a current 3L, I'm am becoming more and more panicked as the days go by that I will be unemployed at graduation.

I've networked with attorneys at various firms throughout these past few years. Stayed in good contact with them. And I'm still going out and meeting more people. I'm not a huge fan of the big bar-sponsored events. But I've been successful in networking with many attorneys 1 on 1 over lunch, coffee, drinks, etc.

I actually have a 2L SA under my belt, but have yet to hear from them on a full-time offer. Good performance reviews all around during the summer. Good fit too. I really want to work here. All I know is that they are still evaluating their needs for a 2015 associate.

I've been checking my school's job page every day for the past few months, and there's literally nothing aside from writing competitions. There aren't even part-time law clerk positions.

I feel so lost.

You might be able to apply to some other types of positions - for example, I know that the Department of Labor Office of Administrative Law Judges (in San Francisco) is hiring clerks for 2-year clerkship positions right now. Last I heard, they won't begin interviewing until January, so there should still be time to send in your application. Feel free to PM me for contact info for that position.

If that's something you're interested in, you might want to contact clerks for ALJs personally to see if they are still hiring. ALJs don't typically hire via OSCAR or traditional methods (ie Symplicity) so it can be hard to find out about jobs like that.

Does your school run any public interest/government career conferences? I know Northwestern hosts the "Midwestern Public Interest Law Career Consortium," which is like a mini-OCI for PI/Gov based summer and post-grad jobs. I don't know if you would be open to that sort of a thing or if you're firm-or-bust, though.


Man, thanks so much. I take some solace on how everyone on this board is so willing to help and has kind words to say.

I don't know if it'd be right to call me firm-or-bust, but I'm pretty close to that mentality. I'd substantially prefer starting out in private practice.

I've run into some current first-year associates in private practice that tell me how they didn't have a 2L SA, yet found an entry-level position with firms in my state, ranging from 20-lawyer firms to 150-lawyer firms.

The career center says that, "Oh, just keep checking Symplicity and network. Small and mid-size firms hire from now until after you're licensed." I don't know how true that is. Maybe it is.


I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to avoid resume gaps. So, while you can (and should) search for firm jobs while looking for others, your #1 goal right now is to get ANY law job lined up. Finding that first job out of law school is almost always going to be the hardest.

If you are committed to working at a firm, there is nothing wrong with landing a job while continuing to look for others to replace it.

Private practice will always be around. But your chances of landing a job after months of unemployment get worse and worse. I know plenty of people with good to great credentials who couldn't land anything for 1-2 years because they were too picky, either due to practice area or geographic area.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:33 am

Met with someone from the state bar who acts like a CSO for new attorneys. He reviewed my resume and cover letter, and we did a mock interview. At the end, he said everything looked great. I interview well, my resume and cover letter are great, and I have a lot of experience for a 2014 grad. So.... Now what? Worst holiday ever.


objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:40 pm

don't forget to frequently check oscar for random last minute "need somebody yesterday"-type clerkship postings (usually temporary). even if you thought you weren't material for clerkship on the regular cycle, it's still worth doing. these aren't common, but they certainly happen. the more geographically flexible you are, the better.

pays solidly, looks awesome on resume, will definitely open doors, and you can do it anywhere in the country because you don't need to be barred to do it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:28 pm

I need advice. 2014 grad--I have a small firm offer on the table. I'm currently working as a "law clerk," really a full-time paralegal doing paralegal and intermittent attorney work. I'm being paid around $45k for this work with benefits, under the assumption by my bosses that I will be looking for attorney work and be out the door as soon as I find it. The small firm is offering pay by percentage of billing, with far fewer benefits than my current position.

The small firm offer is close to the work I want to do, but not exactly; while my current law clerk position is much closer to what I want to do--but absolutely no hope of an attorney position opening up.

The small firm will start me out with some billable work for the first month, then I'm expected to be finding mostly my own clients. I'm scared to death of the percentage billing so early without a base salary to speak of or fall back on. . . .I'm just having trouble finding any alternative and am worried that if I continue to be a "law clerk" for much longer, that I'll lose any marketability. I'm searching everywhere, applying everywhere, all over the country. . . but getting no bites (everything wants 3-7 years experience as an attorney).




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