The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Holly Golightly
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Holly Golightly » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:21 pm

Everyone keeps saying "NEVER DO DOC REVIEW," but it can be a great way to pay the bills. Just keep working your ass off on job apps and don't put it on your resume. It's decent money and I see nothing wrong with it as long as it's only short-term and not interfering with your job applications/interviews.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:06 pm

Puttanesca wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: Hey guys, I'm ordinarily not the type to repost something I've posted earlier if no responses, but I'm honestly doing this because nothing I'm doing seems to be working and I'm truly open to any ideas anyone can think of. I mean literally fearing that I am going to be unemployed with zero legal work or JD preferred work of any kind for much longer than the 7 months it has been already. My undergrad degree was a useless one and I was K-JD so I don't have a previous career or say a finance background I can turn to. Again, any advice, suggestions, criticism, words of any kind would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


Are you willing to work a non-legal job? If you are, try to find something in a field related to the type of law you want to practice. As an example, if you were interested in health law, get a job in an administrative position at a healthcare facility.

I had to find another job in the meantime since my legal job has a 2015 start date, so I did something similar to what I wrote above. Although it is not an attorney position, I am learning things that could be very useful in the future as an attorney. Zero experience in that field.

You could try using a staffing agency if you need job leads. The agencies vary tremendously in quality though. Just don't do doc review.


I would definitely be willing to work a non-legal job, just haven't had any luck with my applications for non-legal and JD preferred jobs that I have applied to. The secondary market I'm in has very little doc review needs right now and so even if I did it for the money, which I would gladly do and just leave it off my resume as Holly Golightly said, my market has very little out there right now. I'm meeting with a headhunter in my market this week. When I was living in New York, I wasn't able to get a headhunter to help/take me on, but given the 6 months of experience and NYC being such a sautéed market, I could see why, but I'm hoping in my much smaller secondary home market that maybe I can do a little better with that.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:44 pm

Graduated in May from a Vandy/USC/UCLA/Texas tier school somewhere between median and top quarter of the class. Still unemployed and waiting for bar results. Loans come due next month (luckily only about $60k or so and I have some savings). Received several rejection letters from law firms last week after not even getting interviews. Worked in-house at a publicly traded company last summer, but they have no openings for entry level attorneys at the moment. Interested in corporate transactional work. Starting to feel really fucked.

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Graduated in May from a Vandy/USC/UCLA/Texas tier school somewhere between median and top quarter of the class. Still unemployed and waiting for bar results. Loans come due next month (luckily only about $60k or so and I have some savings). Received several rejection letters from law firms last week after not even getting interviews. Worked in-house at a publicly traded company last summer, but they have no openings for entry level attorneys at the moment. Interested in corporate transactional work. Starting to feel really fucked.

To the extent possible, develop an interest in something else as well

The corporate transactional ship pretty much only takes passengers at 2l OCI

Puttanesca
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Puttanesca » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: I would definitely be willing to work a non-legal job, just haven't had any luck with my applications for non-legal and JD preferred jobs that I have applied to. The secondary market I'm in has very little doc review needs right now and so even if I did it for the money, which I would gladly do and just leave it off my resume as Holly Golightly said, my market has very little out there right now. I'm meeting with a headhunter in my market this week. When I was living in New York, I wasn't able to get a headhunter to help/take me on, but given the 6 months of experience and NYC being such a sautéed market, I could see why, but I'm hoping in my much smaller secondary home market that maybe I can do a little better with that.


Are there other cities you could commute to that might have additional job opportunities? When I was looking for a short-term job for right after the bar, I was willing to commute up to an hour each way, and that gave me many more potential opportunities.

Also, you may be completely uninterested in this, but in case you're looking for a way to get out of the house and make a little cash, now is the time for holiday seasonal hiring. I would have looked into this if I did not have a job now, but I'm the type of person who would go insane from boredom/unproductivity if I stayed home all day every day.

Anyhow, good luck!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:29 pm

baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Graduated in May from a Vandy/USC/UCLA/Texas tier school somewhere between median and top quarter of the class. Still unemployed and waiting for bar results. Loans come due next month (luckily only about $60k or so and I have some savings). Received several rejection letters from law firms last week after not even getting interviews. Worked in-house at a publicly traded company last summer, but they have no openings for entry level attorneys at the moment. Interested in corporate transactional work. Starting to feel really fucked.

To the extent possible, develop an interest in something else as well

The corporate transactional ship pretty much only takes passengers at 2l OCI


Not the anon above, but in a similar situation (unemployed waiting for bar results). This is not comforting at all. I went to law school only wanting to do transactional work, and I have no desire to litigate. Trying to secure a non-JD/JD-preferred position in investment & finance, but as a K-JD I don't have any experience to fall back on. Was hoping my JD would give me a boost over fresh college grads, but all I've gotten are rejections. Don't know what to do at this point :-/

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:19 am

Feeling really frustrated right now. I felt like I was sending things out into the wind do the lack of any sort of replies, then in a two week span was brought in for a second round with the largest firm in a relatively small market and made it to the second round at a company where the person interviewing me told me I was his top choice. Was actually stressing a little over not having heard back from the firm yet, as it was more desirable position than the company in a lot of ways and I didn't want to say yes to the company only to get a yes from the firm. Ended up not getting either and now just feel like I'm pushing papers in the wind again. I have an interview later this week, but it's hard to feel pumped for it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:38 am

No job, failed the bar.

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JoanSloan
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JoanSloan » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:29 am

No job, failed the bar.


Second.

I haven't gotten any interviews in my bar state, so I'm not sure how to feel/what to do.
Part of me wants to say "fuck it" and try for a different state that might yield more fruitful results.

Not sure if the angst and self-pity follows the confusion, or if this is it.

sgoodman
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sgoodman » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:56 am

....
Last edited by sgoodman on Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:10 am

2014 grad here. Been applying and interviewing since after taking the bar (passed). How do you all summon the confidence for interviews after repeated rejections? It's hard not to take it personally even if I know I didn't get the position because I wasn't a good fit, not because I wasn't qualified.

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JoanSloan
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JoanSloan » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:26 am

2014 grad here. Been applying and interviewing since after taking the bar (passed). How do you all summon the confidence for interviews after repeated rejections? It's hard not to take it personally even if I know I didn't get the position because I wasn't a good fit, not because I wasn't qualified.


You know about the rejections. They don't. They only see what you show them.
There's a job out there for you. But if you carry your baggage everywhere, you won't fit through an open door.

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snowpeach06
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:39 pm

If any of you were following my previous saga, I have official notice that I only have a paying job until Nov. 15th. Ugh. In preparation, I've been applying EVERYWHERE. I have two interviews coming up. But, both are for jobs super outside of law. One is community relations and one is for press at a preforming arts center. While the latter actually sound super fun, pay is... well... $37k in DC (which is basically poverty), and it's so far outside anything I ever thought I'd do. I'm kind of confused if I should even be wasting my time applying to jobs that are SO unrelated. I feel like once I step outside of law and policy, I'm probably not getting back in, but does anyone know if that's the case?

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:19 pm

Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:What title sounds better for resume/Linkedin: "Volunteer Law Clerk" or "Legal Intern"?

Just law clerk.


If you were given a specific title, I'd go with that, especially if you're not sure your boss would be okay with you using another title on your resume.

Outside of that, my understanding (which is probably not entirely correct) is that legal intern = unpaid law clerk.

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BVest
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:32 pm

JoanSloan wrote:You know about the rejections. They don't. They only see what you show them.
There's a job out there for you. But if you carry your baggage everywhere, you won't fit through an open door.


This. To the point that, in a screener with a firm that had not given me a screener during OCI but did later, a partner asked why I didn't interview with them during OCI.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:15 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:What title sounds better for resume/Linkedin: "Volunteer Law Clerk" or "Legal Intern"?

Just law clerk.


If you were given a specific title, I'd go with that, especially if you're not sure your boss would be okay with you using another title on your resume.

Outside of that, my understanding (which is probably not entirely correct) is that legal intern = unpaid law clerk.


What position would you ascribe an unpaid, newly admitted, volunteer legal service.....gopher? Like someone an attorney keeps around while they wait for a job so they can give them novel legal advice after client meetings. I have no idea what to put on my resume for this one.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TheFutureLawyer wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:What title sounds better for resume/Linkedin: "Volunteer Law Clerk" or "Legal Intern"?

Just law clerk.


If you were given a specific title, I'd go with that, especially if you're not sure your boss would be okay with you using another title on your resume.

Outside of that, my understanding (which is probably not entirely correct) is that legal intern = unpaid law clerk.


What position would you ascribe an unpaid, newly admitted, volunteer legal service.....gopher? Like someone an attorney keeps around while they wait for a job so they can give them novel legal advice after client meetings. I have no idea what to put on my resume for this one.


I've seen "Volunteer Attorney".

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:26 am

I need some quick advice!!!

I'm talking with a senior attorney for an in-house position. I met her at an alumni event and she told me about an upcoming job opening with her company. I followed up with her the next day with my interest by email. A friend later told me that I should have given her my resume. I want to follow up with her again to do that. But now I'm thinking I may have to include my transcript (which is less than mediocre) although it's slightly above 3.0 with some solid A- grades sprinkled in there.

Question: Should I be forthcoming and include all documents so as to not look like I'm hiding the ball/elephant in the room? Or, since she has yet to ask, just send her a follow up email with just the resume? I'm afraid she'll be turned off by seeing some poor grades. She appears to be accomplished to a degree (no law review/clerkship but mainly biglaw/corporate).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:I need some quick advice!!!

I'm talking with a senior attorney for an in-house position. I met her at an alumni event and she told me about an upcoming job opening with her company. I followed up with her the next day with my interest by email. A friend later told me that I should have given her my resume. I want to follow up with her again to do that. But now I'm thinking I may have to include my transcript (which is less than mediocre) although it's slightly above 3.0 with some solid A- grades sprinkled in there.

Question: Should I be forthcoming and include all documents so as to not look like I'm hiding the ball/elephant in the room? Or, since she has yet to ask, just send her a follow up email with just the resume? I'm afraid she'll be turned off by seeing some poor grades. She appears to be accomplished to a degree (no law review/clerkship but mainly biglaw/corporate).


As long as your resume shows your GPA I don't think the transcript is necessary unless asked for. I was in a situation eerily similar to yours. Through networking, I got an in-house interview (no journal, pretty much a 3.0 gpa on the dot). I sent my resume, interviewed, grades never came up, and I got the job. It's in a pretty competitive industry and the pay isn't biglaw but is six figures with amazing benefits and big pay jumps down the road. I don't know if my advice is worth anything since it was more amazing timing than anything else but don't worry about your grades. If she sees the number on your resume and still asks, she's probably an asshole anyway. Don't apologize for your grades but focus on your strengths (hopefully relevant experience/coursework or anything else). Good luck!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I need some quick advice!!!

I'm talking with a senior attorney for an in-house position. I met her at an alumni event and she told me about an upcoming job opening with her company. I followed up with her the next day with my interest by email. A friend later told me that I should have given her my resume. I want to follow up with her again to do that. But now I'm thinking I may have to include my transcript (which is less than mediocre) although it's slightly above 3.0 with some solid A- grades sprinkled in there.

Question: Should I be forthcoming and include all documents so as to not look like I'm hiding the ball/elephant in the room? Or, since she has yet to ask, just send her a follow up email with just the resume? I'm afraid she'll be turned off by seeing some poor grades. She appears to be accomplished to a degree (no law review/clerkship but mainly biglaw/corporate).


As long as your resume shows your GPA I don't think the transcript is necessary unless asked for. I was in a situation eerily similar to yours. Through networking, I got an in-house interview (no journal, pretty much a 3.0 gpa on the dot). I sent my resume, interviewed, grades never came up, and I got the job. It's in a pretty competitive industry and the pay isn't biglaw but is six figures with amazing benefits and big pay jumps down the road. I don't know if my advice is worth anything since it was more amazing timing than anything else but don't worry about your grades. If she sees the number on your resume and still asks, she's probably an asshole anyway. Don't apologize for your grades but focus on your strengths (hopefully relevant experience/coursework or anything else). Good luck!


Thanks for sharing. I never had my GPA on my resume before. That seems like a viable alternative. I'm afraid of the wince factor at the sight of it. But from what I've heard and read along these forums, a 3.0+ is passable especially from a T14. So it's worth a shot.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Graduated in May from a Vandy/USC/UCLA/Texas tier school somewhere between median and top quarter of the class. Still unemployed and waiting for bar results. Loans come due next month (luckily only about $60k or so and I have some savings). Received several rejection letters from law firms last week after not even getting interviews. Worked in-house at a publicly traded company last summer, but they have no openings for entry level attorneys at the moment. Interested in corporate transactional work. Starting to feel really fucked.

To the extent possible, develop an interest in something else as well

The corporate transactional ship pretty much only takes passengers at 2l OCI


Not the anon above, but in a similar situation (unemployed waiting for bar results). This is not comforting at all. I went to law school only wanting to do transactional work, and I have no desire to litigate. Trying to secure a non-JD/JD-preferred position in investment & finance, but as a K-JD I don't have any experience to fall back on. Was hoping my JD would give me a boost over fresh college grads, but all I've gotten are rejections. Don't know what to do at this point :-/


A JD is rarely a boost because law school hardly teaches you anything substantive. Being an attorney might give you some credibility for a non-legal job, but it's not the same as a recent grad with no experience. The above post is spot on. Most major transactional work is done by large firms and that ship sails after 2L. Transactional jobs outside of biglaw are few and far between. There are some transactional boutiques but many aren't looking to hire grads with no experience. To be honest, your job search is going to be very difficult if you keep looking with such a narrow focus.

Many actual lawyers don't end up practicing what they thought they would before/while in law school - they end up practicing the area of law they get a job in. For you and some of the other unemployed Valers, you need to broaden your search and not restrict your own potential opportunities with snowflake notions like "I want to practice only corporate M&A work." The market is tough, be flexible.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:20 pm

I have to agree with the anon above. By no means stop applying to the transactional gigs you want, but open up your opportunities as best you can.

I limited my options for a really long time and frankly I now regard that as a waste of time, so live and learn. I got a ton of interviews when I started applying to things out of my niche comfort zone (and one turned into a job).

ZyzzBrah
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ZyzzBrah » Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:37 pm

Thought I was gonna make it :/

Had a CB interview with a firm I really liked for the type of position that I wanted, then:

Radio silence for a month (doubt this delay means anything other than a ding)

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:37 pm

Sup again? Dat doc rev cycle.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:02 pm

Bikeflip wrote:Sup again? Dat doc rev cycle.

hang in there brother.




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