The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
Pretzel_Logic
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Have an interview next week with a small commercial lit firm in an insular market, so really want to be prepared for it. Three partners from biglaw who formed the firm 8 years ago, and now they have 4 associates with 3-5 years of experience. All associates are lateral hires. I just graduated in May, so I'm a little wary of why they're interviewing me. Are they maybe just trying to see what kind of candidates are out there and are not serious about hiring me? I'm going to treat it seriously like every other interview, but was just wondering if anyone had similar experiences. A friend of mine made it to the callback at a small firm in a large market, and the firm seemed to like him, but they rejected him because of his lack of experience.


This is essentially the sort of place I work in. I'm a year out from being sworn in and I had some volunteer/federal criminal work under my belt when they interviewed me, but essentially I was brought in as the youngblood/"investment" hire. It's actually not a bad way to start, especially if they're supportive and want to help you build a book of business.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273588
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:19 pm

Delete
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
BlueLotus
Posts: 2428
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:07 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:38 pm

Any of you Valers attending CLEs for networking purposes?

User avatar
Pretzel_Logic
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:35 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Any of you Valers attending CLEs for networking purposes?


I did. Mostly what happened is that I collected business cards I never again referred to and I don't need CLE classes for about two years.

Thanks, that's good to hear. Did you get a sense during the interview that they were looking for an investment hire? Did you feel isolated as the only junior associate? I'm just afraid that I'll be the only clueless person in the room all the time, and maybe would feel even more pressure from the strong personalities (if there are any). I'm waiting to hear back from a mid-sized firm that just hired several first-year associates, so if I get an offer, I'd lean more towards that firm because there might be more camaraderie. There's also a formal mentoring system in place at that firm. Downside is the commute.


I was surprised they hired me but I figured out why pretty quickly. Imposter syndrome is what you're referring to, and if you're not aware that you need to ask for help, you're an auto-terrible hire. I was very up front about "this is what I know, and here's the universe of crap I don't know I want to learn" and they were very receptive to that. The personality fit here is also very good so I haven't felt isolated, but I don't usually hang out with work people outside the office (never have really) so I may have a different perspective on that.

User avatar
BlueLotus
Posts: 2428
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:07 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:01 pm

What sort of stats do you need for Assistant City Solicitor at City of X Law Department? Anyone have any experience in applying for these sorts of positions?

User avatar
Pretzel_Logic
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:50 pm

BlueLotus wrote:What sort of stats do you need for Assistant City Solicitor at City of X Law Department? Anyone have any experience in applying for these sorts of positions?

Just apply. Stats aren't really a thing for the vast majority of non big law positions and even then...just apply if you're interested.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:02 pm

BlueLotus wrote:What sort of stats do you need for Assistant City Solicitor at City of X Law Department? Anyone have any experience in applying for these sorts of positions?


A classmate of mine got a job doing that:

Bottom 25%, no journal, no internship, no relevant experience. Decent personality though.

Assumpsit
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:57 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Assumpsit » Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:51 pm

.
Last edited by Assumpsit on Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273588
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:03 pm

Graduate top 10% with law review in a t100 in NY. No job. Barely any interviews. Oh, and the school e-mails us with "great opportunities" with firms that pay $40k, and Craigslist routinely lists jobs that pay $35k. Life sucks.

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby AReasonableMan » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Graduate top 10% with law review in a t100 in NY. No job. Barely any interviews. Oh, and the school e-mails us with "great opportunities" with firms that pay $40k, and Craigslist routinely lists jobs that pay $35k. Life sucks.

I know that this won't bring much reconciliation, but this is the biggest reason why the "just make law review at a TT" mantra is bad. A big percentage of TT law students don't try, and a big percentage are not very intelligent. It's never 50-50 one makes law review, and is therefore a bad plan. But the bigger issue with the plan is that even if you succeed, who cares? Top ten percent of Hofstra and St. John's is likelier to move back in with their parents than pay sticker debt. Not enough weight is given to the fact that the prize for winning is life crushing debt. You spent 200k on a lottery ticket where the winner gets a 10 percent off coupon at Chuckie Cheeses.

User avatar
BlueLotus
Posts: 2428
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:07 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Graduate top 10% with law review in a t100 in NY. No job. Barely any interviews. Oh, and the school e-mails us with "great opportunities" with firms that pay $40k, and Craigslist routinely lists jobs that pay $35k. Life sucks.


--LinkRemoved--

Sorry to hear your troubles; we are here to help. What part of New York are you from? This upstate-NY fellowship app is due in a few days. Not great pay ($47K) but at least it is PSLF-eligible. Do you have relevant PI experience?

User avatar
BlueLotus
Posts: 2428
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:07 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:46 pm

AReasonableMan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Graduate top 10% with law review in a t100 in NY. No job. Barely any interviews. Oh, and the school e-mails us with "great opportunities" with firms that pay $40k, and Craigslist routinely lists jobs that pay $35k. Life sucks.

I know that this won't bring much reconciliation, but this is the biggest reason why the "just make law review at a TT" mantra is bad. A big percentage of TT law students don't try, and a big percentage are not very intelligent. It's never 50-50 one makes law review, and is therefore a bad plan. But the bigger issue with the plan is that even if you succeed, who cares? Top ten percent of Hofstra and St. John's is likelier to move back in with their parents than pay sticker debt. Not enough weight is given to the fact that the prize for winning is life crushing debt. You spent 200k on a lottery ticket where the winner gets a 10 percent off coupon at Chuckie Cheeses.


How does this help anon in any way? You're just kicking someone who's already down.

jarofsoup
Posts: 1952
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:41 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jarofsoup » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Graduate top 10% with law review in a t100 in NY. No job. Barely any interviews. Oh, and the school e-mails us with "great opportunities" with firms that pay $40k, and Craigslist routinely lists jobs that pay $35k. Life sucks.


You should consider a position that pays $40k w/ benefits. I went to a top 20 and I would consider it because it would allow me to make ends meet financially for the time being. Do not think you are going to get better options around the corner. That being said if you pass the bar it could make things a bit better in regards to the job hunt.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273588
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:25 pm

BlueLotus wrote:What sort of stats do you need for Assistant City Solicitor at City of X Law Department? Anyone have any experience in applying for these sorts of positions?


Speaking of which, anyone applying to NYC Law Department, and having a difficult time with the online application site?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273588
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:What sort of stats do you need for Assistant City Solicitor at City of X Law Department? Anyone have any experience in applying for these sorts of positions?


Speaking of which, anyone applying to NYC Law Department, and having a difficult time with the online application site?


Nevermind, I finally got it to work. Just FYI for anyone applying to NYC Law Dep't, the application site is a bit buggy.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:09 pm

Goldman Sachs is looking for compliance people. I can't post the ad right now (on phone), but if anyone shows interest I'll use my computer to do it later tonight.

jarofsoup
Posts: 1952
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:41 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jarofsoup » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:53 pm

spleenworship wrote:Goldman Sachs is looking for compliance people. I can't post the ad right now (on phone), but if anyone shows interest I'll use my computer to do it later tonight.


I am interested.

User avatar
worldtraveler
Posts: 7669
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:47 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:45 am

Pretzel_Logic wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:What sort of stats do you need for Assistant City Solicitor at City of X Law Department? Anyone have any experience in applying for these sorts of positions?

Just apply. Stats aren't really a thing for the vast majority of non big law positions and even then...just apply if you're interested.


Yeah unless it's a fellowship app that asks for 19 essays and 3 letters of reference, just do it. No sense in stressing out over whether you're competitive when you could spend that time just submitting the application.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273588
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:29 pm

spleenworship wrote:Goldman Sachs is looking for compliance people. I can't post the ad right now (on phone), but if anyone shows interest I'll use my computer to do it later tonight.


Interested.

hookem12
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:54 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hookem12 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:31 pm

spleenworship wrote:Goldman Sachs is looking for compliance people. I can't post the ad right now (on phone), but if anyone shows interest I'll use my computer to do it later tonight.

Also interested.

User avatar
BlueLotus
Posts: 2428
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:07 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:28 am

Should I make some sort of introductory cover sheet for a memorandum that I am using as a writing sample?

In addition, should writing samples, reference sheets, and cover letters be submitted on bond paper like the resume?

User avatar
crysmissmichelle
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:39 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby crysmissmichelle » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:01 am

BlueLotus wrote:Should I make some sort of introductory cover sheet for a memorandum that I am using as a writing sample?

In addition, should writing samples, reference sheets, and cover letters be submitted on bond paper like the resume?


I make an introductory page any time I've had to trim the sample's length to fit employer requirements.

User avatar
BlueLotus
Posts: 2428
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:07 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:23 am

crysmissmichelle wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Should I make some sort of introductory cover sheet for a memorandum that I am using as a writing sample?

In addition, should writing samples, reference sheets, and cover letters be submitted on bond paper like the resume?


I make an introductory page any time I've had to trim the sample's length to fit employer requirements.


Thanks! Is 8 pages good for a writing sample?

User avatar
BVest
Posts: 5718
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:24 am

Even if not trimming it, you should give the context from which the sample arises.

Some may disagree, but I say don't count it toward the page limit (but also don't make it so long that a reader would think it should count toward the page limit).

Writing Sample
The writing sample below is an excerpt from a legal memorandum prepared for ________________ in my [_______ class] [internship/law clerk position at _____ in the summer of ___________ ].

The case presented two issues of [general subject]: [detail of the issues]. The analysis of the former issue is included in this excerpt.


ETA: And 8 pages is good.

User avatar
minnbills
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby minnbills » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:38 am

If no one else worked on the sample (i.e. edited it) you should mention that as well.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.