The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:43 pm

Just submitted my app for the Mass. AG's Office Fellowship. *Fingers crossed*

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:19 pm

Do Bronx Defenders, BDS, and Legal Aid Society eventually ask for transcripts? I have a measly 3.006. :|

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do Bronx Defenders, BDS, and Legal Aid Society eventually ask for transcripts? I have a measly 3.006. :|

Don't make any apologies for it

Try to get into the mindset of thinking about what you do bring to the table

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:45 pm

baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do Bronx Defenders, BDS, and Legal Aid Society eventually ask for transcripts? I have a measly 3.006. :|

Don't make any apologies for it

Try to get into the mindset of thinking about what you do bring to the table


thanks. it is just so difficult to get over the inferiority complex. i am in the bottom half of my T30. :(

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby swimmer11 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:03 pm

I swear this whole process has made me an alcoholic. Fucking terrible.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:08 pm

is it bad to have a non-diverse resume? all of my legal experience has been in direct legal services (immigration or family law). no firms, no gov't, no judicial internships, no policy work. i don't want to be seen as a "1-trick pony", lol.

is it tough to get a clerkship without having had a judicial internship? MA Probate and Family court would be my DREAM. I have volunteered in the court system thru a Legal Aid org, providing family law forms assistance and brief advice to pro se litigants. is that good experience in judges' view?

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Pleasye
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:35 pm

BlueLotus wrote:is it bad to have a non-diverse resume? all of my legal experience has been in direct legal services (immigration or family law). no firms, no gov't, no judicial internships, no policy work. i don't want to be seen as a "1-trick pony", lol.

It's not "bad" per se, but it will make you a difficult sell for other jobs. It shows that you are dedicated to one type of work (public interest) and you will get pushback from other places, especially from law firms. Be ready for a "why this when your resume is all that" question in interviews and try to work that into your cover letter already so that your resume doesn't end up in the trash. Disclaimer: this was my experience looking for 2L summer jobs, but I am pretty sure it will be the same (or worse) for permanent jobs.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:51 pm

Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:is it bad to have a non-diverse resume? all of my legal experience has been in direct legal services (immigration or family law). no firms, no gov't, no judicial internships, no policy work. i don't want to be seen as a "1-trick pony", lol.

It's not "bad" per se, but it will make you a difficult sell for other jobs. It shows that you are dedicated to one type of work (public interest) and you will get pushback from other places, especially from law firms. Be ready for a "why this when your resume is all that" question in interviews and try to work that into your cover letter already so that your resume doesn't end up in the trash. Disclaimer: this was my experience looking for 2L summer jobs, but I am pretty sure it will be the same (or worse) for permanent jobs.


did firm employers say you're too public interest-ey?

legal aid/pd want "true believers", which is why my resume is full of do-gooder stuff.

i want to apply to small firms doing family law and/or immigration.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:55 pm

btw, wtf is the point of Linkedin's endorsement feature? a bus driver I've never met in my life endorsed me for "legal research", lol.

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Pleasye
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:06 pm

BlueLotus wrote:did firm employers say you're too public interest-ey?

legal aid/pd want "true believers", which is why my resume is full of do-gooder stuff.

i want to apply to small firms doing family law and/or immigration.

Basically. "You have all this public interest experience, why a firm?" Which is a legitimate question for you because you've always said you wanted to do public interest..

I don't think it will be as much of a hard sell for family law or immigration firms because you have experience in the area.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:08 pm

BlueLotus wrote:btw, wtf is the point of Linkedin's endorsement feature? a bus driver I've never met in my life endorsed me for "legal research", lol.


To give state bars something to wag their tongues about before they finally realize that (1) it's meaningless and (2) anyone who has ever seen LinkedIn knows it's meaningless.

--LinkRemoved--
http://www.isba.org/ibj/2013/01/lawpuls ... mentsproce
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... al_ethics/

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:16 pm

Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:I don't think it will be as much of a hard sell for family law or immigration firms because you have experience in the area.


would this include BigLaw firms doing immigration, such as Fragomen? After 5-10 or so years of doing immigration Legal Aid, would it be possible to transition to business immigration, even with my modest B/B+ average and lack of journal?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:39 pm

Does anyone know how to best-prepare for an interview with a SAO? I am not sure what to expect (i.e., I have heard of some of these interviews ask hypo-based Q's but have no clue if it's standard practice and whatnot).

I've been mass mailing as well but I need to step it up a notch again. I have talked with a lot of people and it seems that BigLaw and mid/small law hiring continues through Fall and even picks up even into the Spring semester. With that said, should we mass mail firms now knowing that we will probably mass mail the same firm again in the spring?

- groot

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Pleasye
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pleasye » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:49 pm

BlueLotus wrote:would this include BigLaw firms doing immigration, such as Fragomen? After 5-10 or so years of doing immigration Legal Aid, would it be possible to transition to business immigration, even with my modest B/B+ average and lack of journal?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the issue is that firms (with exceptions of course) just don't value direct client services experience very much.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deadpanic » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone know how to best-prepare for an interview with a SAO? I am not sure what to expect (i.e., I have heard of some of these interviews ask hypo-based Q's but have no clue if it's standard practice and whatnot).

I've been mass mailing as well but I need to step it up a notch again. I have talked with a lot of people and it seems that BigLaw and mid/small law hiring continues through Fall and even picks up even into the Spring semester. With that said, should we mass mail firms now knowing that we will probably mass mail the same firm again in the spring?

- groot


It really varies for local prosecution offices but from my experience, the first interview usually does not include any hypos. That would be for a 2nd interview in front of possibly a few other ADAs/ASAs. But it really seems to vary from office to office so you might have to be more specific.

Continue to mass mail but if you do not have the grades to snag big law from OCI, it will be pretty tough. Small law is pretty random and usually hires based on someone leaving and you having your license but you might as well. You never know when the timing will be right.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:59 am

Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:would this include BigLaw firms doing immigration, such as Fragomen? After 5-10 or so years of doing immigration Legal Aid, would it be possible to transition to business immigration, even with my modest B/B+ average and lack of journal?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the issue is that firms (with exceptions of course) just don't value direct client services experience very much.

This is my understanding. And the kind of immigration services you do for legal aid are generally not at all related to business immigration. If you ultimately wanted to make that transition I think you'd have to figure out other ways to get business immigration experience along the way.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:22 am

3L here. Have a second round skype interview with a state AG's office next week. This is the round of interviews where they cut from ~100 to ~12 candidates for 5 or 6 jobs. It's supposed to last about 40 minutes.

I worked at one of the AG's satellite offices 2L summer and a different local govt office 1L summer. I have good ties to the state/region and my resume is pure govt, including my summer job during UG and post-UG work.

any advice/words of wisdom on how I should prepare/things I should talk about/etc? I don't think I will have the interviewers' names beforehand, or even which departments they're from.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:3L here. Have a second round skype interview with a state AG's office next week. This is the round of interviews where they cut from ~100 to ~12 candidates for 5 or 6 jobs. It's supposed to last about 40 minutes.

I worked at one of the AG's satellite offices 2L summer and a different local govt office 1L summer. I have good ties to the state/region and my resume is pure govt, including my summer job during UG and post-UG work.

any advice/words of wisdom on how I should prepare/things I should talk about/etc? I don't think I will have the interviewers' names beforehand, or even which departments they're from.

I would like to know, too. Just applied to the Mass AG yesterday.

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:35 am

i know that for traditional academia jerbs you have to be HYS, top of the class, law review, published etc. does this ring true for clinical teaching jerbs as well?

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:05 am

BlueLotus wrote:i know that for traditional academia jerbs you have to be HYS, top of the class, law review, published etc. does this ring true for clinical teaching jerbs as well?

You're not competitive for thosenjobs

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby minnbills » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:15 am

BlueLotus wrote:i know that for traditional academia jerbs you have to be HYS, top of the class, law review, published etc. does this ring true for clinical teaching jerbs as well?


I think all the clinic profs from my school are alums. T20

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:24 am

minnbills wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:i know that for traditional academia jerbs you have to be HYS, top of the class, law review, published etc. does this ring true for clinical teaching jerbs as well?


I think all the clinic profs from my school are alums. T20


did they have journal/honors? the supervisor of my clinic went to a TTTT.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby minnbills » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:28 am

BlueLotus wrote:
minnbills wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:i know that for traditional academia jerbs you have to be HYS, top of the class, law review, published etc. does this ring true for clinical teaching jerbs as well?


I think all the clinic profs from my school are alums. T20


did they have journal/honors? the supervisor of my clinic went to a TTTT.


I doubt it, none of them are particularly "academic." They area all older though and had other jobs before coming back to teach.

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BVest
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BVest » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:08 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:would this include BigLaw firms doing immigration, such as Fragomen? After 5-10 or so years of doing immigration Legal Aid, would it be possible to transition to business immigration, even with my modest B/B+ average and lack of journal?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the issue is that firms (with exceptions of course) just don't value direct client services experience very much.

This is my understanding. And the kind of immigration services you do for legal aid are generally not at all related to business immigration. If you ultimately wanted to make that transition I think you'd have to figure out other ways to get business immigration experience along the way.


A friend of mine has been doing some non-legal-aid immigration work (business and private) lately. He did it by joining a small local (4-5 attorney) firm on a contract basis where the named partner was an immigrant from a middle-eastern country and therefore they do some PI, some family law, and a fair amount of immigration work, especially from the partner's home country. Would such experience ever provide entrée to a bigger immigration firm? Who knows, but it definitely won't hurt. (Not that being a K attorney is a great idea for first year out... this is a friend who had been practicing family law for 5 years prior to this).

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BlueLotus
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:09 pm

Anyone know about hiring practices for clerkships for Probate and Family Court in MA?




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