The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Pretty much a ton of hard work and being focused on the type of career I wanted. I knew I wanted something with cap markets, finance, banking, etc and had to figure out a way to get this with an alternate route. I networked within finance, consulting and at law firms once I got my 1L grades back (bottom 10%) and obtained different internships to make it known that I could do anything (regulatory, buy-side finance, modeling, securities law, etc).

You want to be broad in your experiences and show you excel at anything you do, but also want to create a coherant story as to why you are doing what you do. For me, I went (1) Financial Regulator --> (2) Asset manager --> (3) consulting firm --> V15 law firm. Each step, while a little of a stretch, can be shown to be very logical. Additionally, in this time I learned that just because life came easy before, doesn't mean things come easy to you throughout. You need to work for everything and go after what you want.

Also, be friends with classmates. Every opportunity I have gotten since graduating has been through classmates from UG and law school.


Different anon here.
Wanted to mention that I will also be heading to biglaw after graduating with no job. The practice area is corporate.


I wish I had solid advice, but I think I was mostly lucky to get the job and I do not think I did anything differently from what we are all doing on this thread. I guess the one thing I can say is that no matter how unlikely a lead is, still go for it. I thought I did not have a chance at the place I am going. And also, confidence >>>> grades and even substantive experience.


Congrats dooder-- are you class of 2013 or 2014? Also, was this nyc? trying to get a sense of the market.. tia


2014 and NYC.

Puttanesca
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Puttanesca » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:12 pm

Has anyone done (or is anyone considering doing) temp work, either legal or non-legal? I don't have any employment over the next 5 months or so and need something to do for income. I don't live near a major market, and would likely have a long commute (150 miles roundtrip) for any legal related jobs. Non-legal temp jobs in my city all pay around $10/hr. I don't know if I would be better off doing legal or non-legal related work (if I'm able to get any work at all, and that's a big IF).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:49 pm

I'm starting to get more legal temp work, but that doesn't sound like an option for you.

Are you bar licensed yet, and can you do legal volunteer work while temping in a non-legal job? What happens in 5 months? Woulf work in a legal job at that time?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Puttanesca » Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:25 pm

Bikeflip wrote:I'm starting to get more legal temp work, but that doesn't sound like an option for you.

Are you bar licensed yet, and can you do legal volunteer work while temping in a non-legal job? What happens in 5 months? Woulf work in a legal job at that time?


Not bar licensed yet. Just took the bar last week. I could possibly do legal volunteer work while temping in a non-legal job depending on the hours. If the non-legal job is 30+ hours/week though, then I would just do that. I will start a legal job in 2015. It will hopefully start in January, but it could be later than that (and I will not get my start date until after I pass the bar).

I may be willing to do the long commute in order to do legal temp work depending on the hours of the temp job. I know it probably varies by market, but what are the hours are generally like?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby vandalvideo » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:55 pm

Puttanesca wrote:Has anyone done (or is anyone considering doing) temp work, either legal or non-legal? I don't have any employment over the next 5 months or so and need something to do for income. I don't live near a major market, and would likely have a long commute (150 miles roundtrip) for any legal related jobs. Non-legal temp jobs in my city all pay around $10/hr. I don't know if I would be better off doing legal or non-legal related work (if I'm able to get any work at all, and that's a big IF).


Aye, I was doing temp work at a gym in D.C. while studying for the bar exam. We get about 3K people through here on a good night. Worked 5PM to 11PM as a front desk at a rather big place. The manager even let me study for the bar exam during my shift. A few attornies would come in and bump fists when they saw me studying. One brottorney who practices in my specialty area told me to come see him after I pass the bar exam and he may have an associate position for me. Aside from that, still comfortably sitting in the Vale applying to federal jobs while waiting for my results. Was turned down for a clerkship about a week ago.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Puttanesca » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:42 pm

vandalvideo wrote:
Puttanesca wrote:Has anyone done (or is anyone considering doing) temp work, either legal or non-legal? I don't have any employment over the next 5 months or so and need something to do for income. I don't live near a major market, and would likely have a long commute (150 miles roundtrip) for any legal related jobs. Non-legal temp jobs in my city all pay around $10/hr. I don't know if I would be better off doing legal or non-legal related work (if I'm able to get any work at all, and that's a big IF).


Aye, I was doing temp work at a gym in D.C. while studying for the bar exam. We get about 3K people through here on a good night. Worked 5PM to 11PM as a front desk at a rather big place. The manager even let me study for the bar exam during my shift. A few attornies would come in and bump fists when they saw me studying. One brottorney who practices in my specialty area told me to come see him after I pass the bar exam and he may have an associate position for me. Aside from that, still comfortably sitting in the Vale applying to federal jobs while waiting for my results. Was turned down for a clerkship about a week ago.


Sounds like a pretty sweet gig. Hope I can get a temp job along those lines. Still going to look into it, but the more I think about it, I think the legal doc review temp thing would be hard to pull off (limited opportunities, many of which require a law license + the commute). Sorry about the clerkship. Hope the associate position works out for you!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gortega86 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:52 am

So I interviewed for a great firm in my home market about a month ago. Following the interview I followed up with an email to the hiring partner and the associate who conducted the interview. I received an immediate general response from the hiring partner, but did not get one from the associate.

After a month, I have now received a response from the associate. The email was apologizing for the delayed response, he also stated to keep in touch with the firm and asked when I would be in town so we could link up.

Do you think this email has any indication of my possibility of getting the job? I am currently a 3L and the hiring partner said it would take a couple months to make a decision.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby uncle2drew » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:14 pm

Hello, I'm new here.

I was no offered by my 2L SA firm in a secondary market. I am starting my search by mailing any and all local firms that did not reject me during last year's recruiting season. Looking for advice as to how to handle my cover letter and pitch: do I revise the CL to speak positively about my summer experience? Right now I am thinking to very briefly mention that I have experience working in a law firm environment, something to that effect, but nothing more -- and then I would cover ground in any interviews, since the summer associate job will be on my resume.

My SA firm is one of the largest, top dogs in the secondary market, which is my home city. I am hoping that despite my no offer, local firms will find my summer there to be an asset. But on the flip side, I hope that the no offer does not turn employers off given that it is a smaller market. From what I know, the firm has an ~80% offer rate year-to-year. If anyone went through or is in a similar predicament, let me know.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:22 pm

Wanted to post this for any 3Ls interested in doing regulatory work. The SEC officially restarted it's Honors Program again. https://sec.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/375444800

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Been in the Vale for 1 yr so far. Graduated in May 2013. Was temporarily out of the vale when I got hired by small firm in my own state. Took job offer (1st job offer since graduating) of $24k/yr with guaranteed bonus of $26k. Job posting said looking for 0-3 yrs exp associate attorney. Fired 2 wks later for not having enough experience and would take too long to train. Went out of pocket for relocation expense (including signing up for 1 yr lease at apt) b/c firm located 4 hrs away from home state. Now I'm just fed up and through and thinking about leaving job market entirely. Don't know if should continue to stay in legal mkt. Don't have enough $ to keep at it. FYI: Graduated from T-30, median grades, no LR, no moot ct. This was 1st job offer out of 4 interviews I've obtained since graduation. Don't know anyone has any thoughts on this. I'm new to the forum and just needed to vent


Stuff like this is exactly why I could care less about being a lawyer anymore or having any kind of legal job. I also went to a T-30 and graduated around median. And for what? I'm 150K in debt and have been out of school for over a year. Apparently paying that much to go to a good law school isn't worth a damn anymore. You have to go around kissing butt and mass-mailing folks who are almost never interested in talking to you. I feel like I know nothing about most areas of law despite my education. I don't even know how to file a court document.

And what happens once you do get there? What law firm in their right mind would post a $24K/year job? Sadly, I've seen other postings that don't pay much more than that. If I'm not going to have regular hours and am going to have to take work home, I at least want to be reasonably compensated for it. Now that just seems like a pipe dream.

This ridiculous process of having to take unpaid internships that will probably go nowhere, somehow be a wizard at networking despite financial constraints and what your personality is like, and have the ability to "build a brand" and know something about the business side of law before you can even get an interview has destroyed pretty much all desire I ever had to be an attorney. It seems like unless you graduated top 20%, went to HYS, or are well-connected, law school just throws you to the sharks after you graduate. How the hell am I supposed to get involved with anything meaningful if I'm too busy worrying about how I'll support myself? I don't have rich parents; I'm the first in my family to even go to college and I don't have any connections into a career pipeline.

I'm so sick of this and I feel like I totally boned my future by going to law school. Right now I'm viewing my tuition as a sunk cost and hoping to get ANY 40K+ job with decent hours. PAYE will make my debt manageable, so I'll deal with that when the time comes. I just feel like I've gotten myself into something I'm ill-suited for in every way possible and just want out. I'm still applying for attorney jobs, but the whole thing seems utterly pointless.

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:25 pm

uncle2drew wrote:Hello, I'm new here.

I was no offered by my 2L SA firm in a secondary market. I am starting my search by mailing any and all local firms that did not reject me during last year's recruiting season. Looking for advice as to how to handle my cover letter and pitch: do I revise the CL to speak positively about my summer experience? Right now I am thinking to very briefly mention that I have experience working in a law firm environment, something to that effect, but nothing more -- and then I would cover ground in any interviews, since the summer associate job will be on my resume.

My SA firm is one of the largest, top dogs in the secondary market, which is my home city. I am hoping that despite my no offer, local firms will find my summer there to be an asset. But on the flip side, I hope that the no offer does not turn employers off given that it is a smaller market. From what I know, the firm has an ~80% offer rate year-to-year. If anyone went through or is in a similar predicament, let me know.

I got no offered back in the day; sorry to hear it op

When you mail I'd spin your firm exp. as an asset

Firms like to see firm experience in the resume

You're going to need to come up with a narrative as to why you didn't get an offer, bc you'll probably get asked

"My 2L SA firm rarely gives offers to all summers, and this yr was no exception" should be part of the narrative

Edit: good thread http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=212272

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lsatextreme » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:26 pm

So can I assume that basically no firm is looking to hire at this point until after bar passage? I need to make some income badly and I'm looking to do temp law clerk jobs basically at this point. I'm not sure if that's necessarily a smart idea though. Sigh.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:57 pm

lsatextreme wrote:So can I assume that basically no firm is looking to hire at this point until after bar passage? I need to make some income badly and I'm looking to do temp law clerk jobs basically at this point. I'm not sure if that's necessarily a smart idea though. Sigh.


I landed a job as a graduate law clerk right after taking the job which turned into an attorney position after I passed. So you shouldn't assume that.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:49 pm

lsatextreme wrote:So can I assume that basically no firm is looking to hire at this point until after bar passage? I need to make some income badly and I'm looking to do temp law clerk jobs basically at this point. I'm not sure if that's necessarily a smart idea though. Sigh.


I'd do it. For sure. Increases your network while giving you money. Win win.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:09 am

Can anyone shed light on what the market is like for 3L job hunting in the ERISA / Executive Compensation / Employee Benefits area?

I've got some relevant experience in the area, and CSO tells me there's a good market for that practice area (supposedly among the few that regularly hire 3Ls)... but I don't know. Most firms have tiny practice areas for the area; granted, seemingly even less people are interested in practicing in the area.

Any info would be nice, don't want to rely just on CSO.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Stanford4Me » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:12 am

gortega86 wrote:So I interviewed for a great firm in my home market about a month ago. Following the interview I followed up with an email to the hiring partner and the associate who conducted the interview. I received an immediate general response from the hiring partner, but did not get one from the associate.

After a month, I have now received a response from the associate. The email was apologizing for the delayed response, he also stated to keep in touch with the firm and asked when I would be in town so we could link up.

Do you think this email has any indication of my possibility of getting the job? I am currently a 3L and the hiring partner said it would take a couple months to make a decision.

I'd say it's an indication that they're still prospecting and you're still part of the pool of prospects. If you will be back in that market for any reason, try to meet with the associate and take opportunities to reaffirm your interest in the firm while not going overboard.

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone shed light on what the market is like for 3L job hunting in the ERISA / Executive Compensation / Employee Benefits area?

I've got some relevant experience in the area, and CSO tells me there's a good market for that practice area (supposedly among the few that regularly hire 3Ls)... but I don't know. Most firms have tiny practice areas for the area; granted, seemingly even less people are interested in practicing in the area.

Any info would be nice, don't want to rely just on CSO.

No clue but hey nows the time to email alums from your school and do some netwrkign

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:34 am

baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone shed light on what the market is like for 3L job hunting in the ERISA / Executive Compensation / Employee Benefits area?

I've got some relevant experience in the area, and CSO tells me there's a good market for that practice area (supposedly among the few that regularly hire 3Ls)... but I don't know. Most firms have tiny practice areas for the area; granted, seemingly even less people are interested in practicing in the area.

Any info would be nice, don't want to rely just on CSO.

No clue but hey nows the time to email alums from your school and do some netwrkign


Thanks. I have slowly started to do that, will continue with it.

Somewhat odd question, but is having the same alum the only acceptable way to email an attorney for networking purposes? Can I do it on the basis of belonging to a somewhat less common ethnic origin? Or is that... stupid and wrong?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gortega86 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:38 am

Stanford4Me wrote:
gortega86 wrote:So I interviewed for a great firm in my home market about a month ago. Following the interview I followed up with an email to the hiring partner and the associate who conducted the interview. I received an immediate general response from the hiring partner, but did not get one from the associate.

After a month, I have now received a response from the associate. The email was apologizing for the delayed response, he also stated to keep in touch with the firm and asked when I would be in town so we could link up.

Do you think this email has any indication of my possibility of getting the job? I am currently a 3L and the hiring partner said it would take a couple months to make a decision.

I'd say it's an indication that they're still prospecting and you're still part of the pool of prospects. If you will be back in that market for any reason, try to meet with the associate and take opportunities to reaffirm your interest in the firm while not going overboard.


Thank you for your response! I have definitely tried to set up a day to meet with the associate.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:06 am

Entering 3L now, needed a place to vent, figured this was as good as any. I have been top 1/3 at a borderline T1. The last 2 years I was lucky if I even got an interview for any position as a result my resume is barren, and I have no real experience in law besides some BS research assistant jobs aka bluebooking and hating life. I honestly have no idea what I am going to do to unfuck myself from this situation. Earlier in the summer I was regretting going back to school because I would have to try to come up with some lie about what I did over the summer, now I don't really care if people make fun of me because I feel like I have seriously screwed up my life. Deep down I know I should just throw in the towel and withdrawal, and just treat the last 2 years as a sunken cost (its not like I learned anything important anyway lol), and I have even had discussions with my family to this extent, but I was pretty much told I would be disowned if I did it. So here's to the next year or two sitting in the Vale hopefully I win the lottery because it seems like the only way out right now.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:37 am

Going to be a 3L... When should I start spamming ever potential place I can work at?

I want to do it as soon as possible, but not sure if early august is too early..

Also, do I look for internships during the year (to try to spin into a job) or a full-time job? (I know both, but what do I do for purposes of cold e-mailing?)

T20, below median

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:
baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone shed light on what the market is like for 3L job hunting in the ERISA / Executive Compensation / Employee Benefits area?

I've got some relevant experience in the area, and CSO tells me there's a good market for that practice area (supposedly among the few that regularly hire 3Ls)... but I don't know. Most firms have tiny practice areas for the area; granted, seemingly even less people are interested in practicing in the area.

Any info would be nice, don't want to rely just on CSO.

No clue but hey nows the time to email alums from your school and do some netwrkign


Thanks. I have slowly started to do that, will continue with it.

Somewhat odd question, but is having the same alum the only acceptable way to email an attorney for networking purposes? Can I do it on the basis of belonging to a somewhat less common ethnic origin? Or is that... stupid and wrong?


Depends on the ethnic origin I guess. As a Jew, I'd feel uncomfortable being all "hey, I'm a Jew, you're a Jew," (secret world domination handshake) "I'd like to pick your brain on legal hiring."

That said, a friend of mine totally made friends with a judge by going up to him an asking "I'd like to talk to you about what it's like to be a black man in the legal profession."

In short, you'd know better than me whats likely to be appropriate, having been a member of that group your whole life. Maybe if you say the ethnicity other members of the ethnicity could advise you better.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gortega86 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:Entering 3L now, needed a place to vent, figured this was as good as any. I have been top 1/3 at a borderline T1. The last 2 years I was lucky if I even got an interview for any position as a result my resume is barren, and I have no real experience in law besides some BS research assistant jobs aka bluebooking and hating life. I honestly have no idea what I am going to do to unfuck myself from this situation. Earlier in the summer I was regretting going back to school because I would have to try to come up with some lie about what I did over the summer, now I don't really care if people make fun of me because I feel like I have seriously screwed up my life. Deep down I know I should just throw in the towel and withdrawal, and just treat the last 2 years as a sunken cost (its not like I learned anything important anyway lol), and I have even had discussions with my family to this extent, but I was pretty much told I would be disowned if I did it. So here's to the next year or two sitting in the Vale hopefully I win the lottery because it seems like the only way out right now.


I would not be highly discouraged. Yes, your situation is not ideal, but if I were in your shoes the last thing I would do is give up. What you need to do is get a legal job during the school year. There are many volunteer organizations that need help and do not care about your experience. Near Emory we have the Georgia innocence project, research and find something similar. I would do that for a semester and look to get a small firm job in spring. From there you can keep building.

Have you tried networking? Harass your parents to ask everyone they come in contact with if they know any attorneys. You will be surprised how much networking can help. It might not directly lead to a position but you sure can get leads or interviews.

Lastly, fuck what anyone else thinks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:31 pm

For various reasons had to take a part time government position this 2L summer through the school, with virtually 0 chance of any type of long-term employment out of it.

I THINK they've liked me a lot.. particularly my supervisor, but figured I still wouldn't get anything out of it. Supervisor just came by, complimented my work this summer (last day), and then stated she reserved an hour to talk to me at end of day...

Hoping this means something good for long-term employment???

Probably not...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For various reasons had to take a part time government position this 2L summer through the school, with virtually 0 chance of any type of long-term employment out of it.

I THINK they've liked me a lot.. particularly my supervisor, but figured I still wouldn't get anything out of it. Supervisor just came by, complimented my work this summer (last day), and then stated she reserved an hour to talk to me at end of day...

Hoping this means something good for long-term employment???

Probably not...


At a minimum it's a LOR and a network contact. Maybe more, you never know. Good luck!




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