The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Holly Golightly
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Holly Golightly » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:09 pm

Have you asked around the courthouse to see if there are any judges with an open spot willing to take you in this coming year? In my courthouse, a lot of judges don't necessarily hire as many clerks as they're allowed to, so if your current judge recommends you, maybe you could get in with someone else? Or have you asked your current judge if you can stay on?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys, some advice here would be greatly appreciated if you can.

Worked at a midsize firm making $80K, no bonus, however firm had some issues and so I was out the door after 6 months, and have now been in the Vale for about 5 months now. I've had some unsuccessful interviews from a mix of places, ranging from midsize to biglaw, and a few state/local gov't positions, with the main thing preventing an offer being lack of experience. Primary focus was corporate/transactional and that's where the bulk of my experience/background is.

To cut to the chase, I applied to a few craigslist postings that looked legitimate enough, for a major city that pays market and is high cost of living, near where I live. I received an interview from one taking place in the next week. The firm is less than 10 people, and focuses on labor/employment and is litigation only, things I really know nothing about other than the basic litigation exposure I received in law school.

Any recommendations on how to approach the interview (their ad was seeking students from top schools, I went to a T14, graduated below median), and it seems I was granted the interview on the basis of where I went to school more so than any fit in terms of background. Also, how can I tell if a firm is shady, has high turnover, low morale/terrible culture, in the case of a 10< person firm here.

I definitely understand it's a tough market and that beggars can't be choosers, but I also am weary of grabbing the next offer (this is if I get one, I'm not confident at all that I will land it) and having a similar or worse result as my first experience working at a midsize firm. Also, as I stated, the city/area is high cost of living and so any tips on how to negotiate salary if it comes to that would be appreciated as well. Thank you all so much!


I was the poster who put this up earlier. Had the interview, total waste of time. Interviewer said that the firm puts their ad out and that they interview all the time and put resumes on file in case there's an opening (the advertisement specifically says x law firm seeking a junior/mid-level associate) and just likes bringing in a lot of candidates. I didn't really know what to say to that. I was told that sometimes, months later or more, a person will be called and told that they can take them on at the firm, which is great for someone who grew up city/area where the firm is but if you're trying to find a job and cannot just live there just to seek a job (funds running low, etc) that's a complete waste of time. Sorry to vent, it was just extremely frustrating to have prepared for the interview, traveled to the office, and just known from minute one that this was a waste of time upon getting there, definitely had other things I could have done and that needed doing.

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Tanicius
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tanicius » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys, some advice here would be greatly appreciated if you can.

Worked at a midsize firm making $80K, no bonus, however firm had some issues and so I was out the door after 6 months, and have now been in the Vale for about 5 months now. I've had some unsuccessful interviews from a mix of places, ranging from midsize to biglaw, and a few state/local gov't positions, with the main thing preventing an offer being lack of experience. Primary focus was corporate/transactional and that's where the bulk of my experience/background is.

To cut to the chase, I applied to a few craigslist postings that looked legitimate enough, for a major city that pays market and is high cost of living, near where I live. I received an interview from one taking place in the next week. The firm is less than 10 people, and focuses on labor/employment and is litigation only, things I really know nothing about other than the basic litigation exposure I received in law school.

Any recommendations on how to approach the interview (their ad was seeking students from top schools, I went to a T14, graduated below median), and it seems I was granted the interview on the basis of where I went to school more so than any fit in terms of background. Also, how can I tell if a firm is shady, has high turnover, low morale/terrible culture, in the case of a 10< person firm here.

I definitely understand it's a tough market and that beggars can't be choosers, but I also am weary of grabbing the next offer (this is if I get one, I'm not confident at all that I will land it) and having a similar or worse result as my first experience working at a midsize firm. Also, as I stated, the city/area is high cost of living and so any tips on how to negotiate salary if it comes to that would be appreciated as well. Thank you all so much!


I was the poster who put this up earlier. Had the interview, total waste of time. Interviewer said that the firm puts their ad out and that they interview all the time and put resumes on file in case there's an opening (the advertisement specifically says x law firm seeking a junior/mid-level associate) and just likes bringing in a lot of candidates. I didn't really know what to say to that. I was told that sometimes, months later or more, a person will be called and told that they can take them on at the firm, which is great for someone who grew up city/area where the firm is but if you're trying to find a job and cannot just live there just to seek a job (funds running low, etc) that's a complete waste of time. Sorry to vent, it was just extremely frustrating to have prepared for the interview, traveled to the office, and just known from minute one that this was a waste of time upon getting there, definitely had other things I could have done and that needed doing.


Hate that bullshit. Sorry to hear.

I once had an interview where the office requires a resume, references, writing sample, and cover letter. I get there, and they explain it's just an informational interview. They start off by asking me whether I'd like to intern at their office next semester, or whether I'd be interested in apply for the job 6 months later, in the spring of my 3L year. All of us who interviewed there thought it was an interview for an actual job. After all, they solicited cover letters from us, where we all talked about wanting to work a job there. They were so clueless that they spent the whole half hour interview selling the job to me, as if I hadn't already expressed informed interest in working there.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:51 pm

I once went to an interview that required a selection process for a local school's OCI for a law-enforcing govt agency. When I asekd OCS about it, they told me was probably hiring for their general counsel in my home city (location where job was listed on symplicity), which made me even more excited.

I prepped hard for the interview. I arrived early. I showed up and was directed to the appropriate room. I could not find the appropriate room because the room I had been directed to was actually a theater. I went back down and asked if the OCI coordinator people were sure. They said yes. I figured that there must just have been an interview-room shortage during this OCI (justifying having an interview in a theater), so I went into the theater and sat for 20 minutes.

During those next 20 minutes, 30 other confused-looking law students in suits (and one or two non-confused-looking law student in jeans) funneled into the theater and sat down. A guy came in, announced he was senior special agent at this govt agency, and showed us a video about "what it takes to become a special agent at [agency]." and then left.

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Tanicius
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Tanicius » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:59 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:I once went to an interview that required a selection process for a local school's OCI for a law-enforcing govt agency. When I asekd OCS about it, they told me was probably hiring for their general counsel in my home city (location where job was listed on symplicity), which made me even more excited.

I prepped hard for the interview. I arrived early. I showed up and was directed to the appropriate room. I could not find the appropriate room because the room I had been directed to was actually a theater. I went back down and asked if the OCI coordinator people were sure. They said yes. I figured that there must just have been an interview-room shortage during this OCI (justifying having an interview in a theater), so I went into the theater and sat for 20 minutes.

During those next 20 minutes, 30 other confused-looking law students in suits (and one or two non-confused-looking law student in jeans) funneled into the theater and sat down. A guy came in, announced he was senior special agent at this govt agency, and showed us a video about "what it takes to become a special agent at [agency]." and then left.


Lmao. That definitely takes the cake for shittyness.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:46 pm

LJL at this page. This profession sucks if you miss a brass ring. I interviewed with another clueless solo who may or may not have for work me. At least this one actually showed up to the interview.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:25 pm

Bikeflip wrote:LJL at this page. This profession sucks if you miss a brass ring. I interviewed with another clueless solo who may or may not have for work me. At least this one actually showed up to the interview.



You're next to get a ticket out, bro. You're due. Keep your chin up (easier said than done, i know)

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:58 am

Pretzel_Logic wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:LJL at this page. This profession sucks if you miss a brass ring. I interviewed with another clueless solo who may or may not have for work me. At least this one actually showed up to the interview.



You're next to get a ticket out, bro. You're due. Keep your chin up (easier said than done, i know)

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jessuf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:08 am

Bikeflip wrote:LJL at this page. This profession sucks if you miss a brass ring. I interviewed with another clueless solo who may or may not have for work me. At least this one actually showed up to the interview.

:cry: ilu, bike

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MG95
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby MG95 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:01 pm

.
Last edited by MG95 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LeDique
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby LeDique » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:21 pm

Just got an interview with a 1 partner, 1 associate firm in my desired practice area from ~networking~ (and a mini-listserv war looool). I know the associate fairly well, and am currently sperging out over what exactly to email her to ask her things about the jerb/putting a good word for me.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:55 pm

M_n_M wrote:Told my career adviser about my "originally advertised 70k/paid by the hour/hardly any hours" associate situation. She said that I should look for something else, but to instead talk to the alumni relations adviser and apply to a judicial clerkship in southern GA that pays about the same as my current job.

I assume the hours are still crap? That's rough, man.

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MG95
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby MG95 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:05 pm

.
Last edited by MG95 on Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jessuf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:09 pm

LeDique wrote:Just got an interview with a 1 partner, 1 associate firm in my desired practice area from ~networking~ (and a mini-listserv war looool). I know the associate fairly well, and am currently sperging out over what exactly to email her to ask her things about the jerb/putting a good word for me.

Awesomeeeeee. Just link her to your okc.

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:12 pm

M_n_M wrote:
Stanford4Me wrote:
M_n_M wrote:Told my career adviser about my "originally advertised 70k/paid by the hour/hardly any hours" associate situation. She said that I should look for something else, but to instead talk to the alumni relations adviser and apply to a judicial clerkship in southern GA that pays about the same as my current job.

I assume the hours are still crap? That's rough, man.


Thanks, man. Yeah. Only 52 so far this month. I know I should be grateful to have a job, but this whole experience is freaking depressing and makes me feel more and more like a worthless piece of shit.

You shouldn't feel like a worthless piece of shit

But some anger is def understandable

52 hrs this month = utter shit

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:42 pm

Thanks for letting me vent bros. Good luck, dique. PM me the details.

At least for the next week, I have a doc review gig. Having a tiny bit of money will be encouraging.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:43 pm

Just lot out on a job to a classmate in a practice area where I have more knowledge and more experience than this person. I mean they're good people and they deserve it but fuck it sucks. :evil:

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:Just lot out on a job to a classmate in a practice area where I have more knowledge and more experience than this person. I mean they're good people and they deserve it but fuck it sucks. :evil:


This happened to me like three times. Every time I was like "WTF employer?!?"

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:Just lot out on a job to a classmate in a practice area where I have more knowledge and more experience than this person. I mean they're good people and they deserve it but fuck it sucks. :evil:


This happened to me four times...that I know of. Keep hustling, although I know it sucks.

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:Just lot out on a job to a classmate in a practice area where I have more knowledge and more experience than this person. I mean they're good people and they deserve it but fuck it sucks. :evil:

Dude it def sucks

Seems like a common experience ITT

Hiring is so idiosyncratic and it's maddening

But keep your head up man

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:08 pm

baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just lot out on a job to a classmate in a practice area where I have more knowledge and more experience than this person. I mean they're good people and they deserve it but fuck it sucks. :evil:

Dude it def sucks

Seems like a common experience ITT

Hiring is so idiosyncratic and it's maddening

But keep your head up man


I hate to be the guy to say this, but IME, good resume only gets you to the interview. once everybody has an interview, it's largely about how u interview/fit. i would almost be inclined to say that everybody is more or less on the same level who is selected for the interview pool. in the judicial clerkship context, for example, at that point, you are already qualified for the position and that is acknowledged (so is everybody else who is interviewing)...and then the question becomes one of fit.

but keep your head up. getting interviews is the tough part (if they wanted to use their time to interview you, you did something right), then it's just a numbers game.

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baal hadad
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby baal hadad » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:14 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:
baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just lot out on a job to a classmate in a practice area where I have more knowledge and more experience than this person. I mean they're good people and they deserve it but fuck it sucks. :evil:

Dude it def sucks

Seems like a common experience ITT

Hiring is so idiosyncratic and it's maddening

But keep your head up man


I hate to be the guy to say this, but IME, good resume only gets you to the interview. once everybody has an interview, it's largely about how u interview/fit. i would almost be inclined to say that everybody is more or less on the same level who is selected for the interview pool. in the judicial clerkship context, for example, at that point, you are already qualified for the position and that is acknowledged (so is everybody else who is interviewing)...and then the question becomes one of fit.

but keep your head up. getting interviews is the tough part (if they wanted to use their time to interview you, you did something right), then it's just a numbers game.

I've definitely lost at least one position to someone w better credentials/experience even though I was more liked personally

It both credentials and like ability

Your resume doesn't stop mattering after u interview

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:31 pm

I know the feels, guys. I was final three for two positions with an insurance defense firm, and was the one not selected for a position - the other two had all government internships, one exclusively in prosecution :oops:

Hope things start looking up for those still looking

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:21 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:
baal hadad wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just lot out on a job to a classmate in a practice area where I have more knowledge and more experience than this person. I mean they're good people and they deserve it but fuck it sucks. :evil:

Dude it def sucks

Seems like a common experience ITT

Hiring is so idiosyncratic and it's maddening

But keep your head up man


I hate to be the guy to say this, but IME, good resume only gets you to the interview. once everybody has an interview, it's largely about how u interview/fit. i would almost be inclined to say that everybody is more or less on the same level who is selected for the interview pool. in the judicial clerkship context, for example, at that point, you are already qualified for the position and that is acknowledged (so is everybody else who is interviewing)...and then the question becomes one of fit.

but keep your head up. getting interviews is the tough part (if they wanted to use their time to interview you, you did something right), then it's just a numbers game.


Thanks bros :D

To your point, I thought the interview went well. Sold how my classwork and experience made me a good fit. Head of the practice asked me what I think a first-year does and nailed the answer. Hit all the talking points. But it's such a random process.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:47 pm

What do people in here know about insurance defense work in terms of long term options? What can you do with the experience? I'm not talking lateral to biglaw--not crazy. But just a good overview of realistic decent jobs that it prepares you for.




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