The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Nomo
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Nomo » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:14 pm

I actually think you should do the LLM. But be prepared to do something outside of biglaw. Definitely apply to the IRS, Tax Court clerkships, and anything else you can think of.

That said, I have a very limited knowledge of job prospects coming out of NYU tax LLM. I just sort of think you've got the right pedigree for NY biglaw and that they will be interested in scooping you up.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:33 pm

Hey bros...

I'm out of the Vale.

I'm taking a running leap off a cliff with this job, but I'm out of the Vale AND it's as an associate. As an attorney. Never stop hustling.

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Kronk
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kronk » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:37 pm

Pretzel_Logic wrote:Hey bros...

I'm out of the Vale.

I'm taking a running leap off a cliff with this job, but I'm out of the Vale AND it's as an associate. As an attorney. Never stop hustling.


Awesome.

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CaptainCrunch
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby CaptainCrunch » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:22 pm

Pretzel_Logic wrote:Hey bros...

I'm out of the Vale.

I'm taking a running leap off a cliff with this job, but I'm out of the Vale AND it's as an associate. As an attorney. Never stop hustling.


We want details.

I feel like I can finally stop following this thread. Most everyone here I was really routing for is now employed. Congrats, Pretzel.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:31 pm

Pretzel_Logic wrote:Hey bros...

I'm out of the Vale.

I'm taking a running leap off a cliff with this job, but I'm out of the Vale AND it's as an associate. As an attorney. Never stop hustling.


Congrats!!

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:41 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:53 pm

Hey guys, some advice here would be greatly appreciated if you can.

Worked at a midsize firm making $80K, no bonus, however firm had some issues and so I was out the door after 6 months, and have now been in the Vale for about 5 months now. I've had some unsuccessful interviews from a mix of places, ranging from midsize to biglaw, and a few state/local gov't positions, with the main thing preventing an offer being lack of experience. Primary focus was corporate/transactional and that's where the bulk of my experience/background is.

To cut to the chase, I applied to a few craigslist postings that looked legitimate enough, for a major city that pays market and is high cost of living, near where I live. I received an interview from one taking place in the next week. The firm is less than 10 people, and focuses on labor/employment and is litigation only, things I really know nothing about other than the basic litigation exposure I received in law school.

Any recommendations on how to approach the interview (their ad was seeking students from top schools, I went to a T14, graduated below median), and it seems I was granted the interview on the basis of where I went to school more so than any fit in terms of background. Also, how can I tell if a firm is shady, has high turnover, low morale/terrible culture, in the case of a 10< person firm here.

I definitely understand it's a tough market and that beggars can't be choosers, but I also am weary of grabbing the next offer (this is if I get one, I'm not confident at all that I will land it) and having a similar or worse result as my first experience working at a midsize firm. Also, as I stated, the city/area is high cost of living and so any tips on how to negotiate salary if it comes to that would be appreciated as well. Thank you all so much!

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:54 pm

I'll keep the deets vague but it's a small shop, pretty diverse practice area. The catch is that I'm going to have to start hustling for clients on day one, which is terrifying, but long term it's a great opportunity.

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deadpanic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deadpanic » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:57 pm

Pretzel_Logic wrote:Hey bros...

I'm out of the Vale.

I'm taking a running leap off a cliff with this job, but I'm out of the Vale AND it's as an associate. As an attorney. Never stop hustling.


WOOHOO!!! Congrats. That's really awesome to hear.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys, some advice here would be greatly appreciated if you can.

Worked at a midsize firm making $80K, no bonus, however firm had some issues and so I was out the door after 6 months, and have now been in the Vale for about 5 months now. I've had some unsuccessful interviews from a mix of places, ranging from midsize to biglaw, and a few state/local gov't positions, with the main thing preventing an offer being lack of experience. Primary focus was corporate/transactional and that's where the bulk of my experience/background is.

To cut to the chase, I applied to a few craigslist postings that looked legitimate enough, for a major city that pays market and is high cost of living, near where I live. I received an interview from one taking place in the next week. The firm is less than 10 people, and focuses on labor/employment and is litigation only, things I really know nothing about other than the basic litigation exposure I received in law school.

Any recommendations on how to approach the interview (their ad was seeking students from top schools, I went to a T14, graduated below median), and it seems I was granted the interview on the basis of where I went to school more so than any fit in terms of background. Also, how can I tell if a firm is shady, has high turnover, low morale/terrible culture, in the case of a 10< person firm here.

I definitely understand it's a tough market and that beggars can't be choosers, but I also am weary of grabbing the next offer (this is if I get one, I'm not confident at all that I will land it) and having a similar or worse result as my first experience working at a midsize firm. Also, as I stated, the city/area is high cost of living and so any tips on how to negotiate salary if it comes to that would be appreciated as well. Thank you all so much!


Don't know about the rest, but for high turnover, look in the offices. If they are bare or all have paintings and degrees sitting on the floor unhung, then you know people are jockeying for the good offices as other people leave.

As for morale, just look how stressed the associates look. Do they have time to sit and talk to you? Do they seem happy? Are the support staff friendly (this can also point to high turnover if they don't want to get too friendly with the fresh meat since you'd likely be gone in a few months).

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:40 pm

Congrats Pretz. Hope to follow you soon.

Vale and Valor
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Vale and Valor » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:52 pm

Making an account for the Vale to see if anyone has any advice.

Anyway, I have average grades at an average school (think Emory/GW/Notre Dame/Vandy/WUSTL) and in a summer position that won't lead to permanent employment. (I'm a 3L now)

I'm very much in flux because my wife is applying to get a PhD entering Fall of 2015, and she's expecting based on her numbers and career to get a decent fellowship (full tuition + living stipend) however she's applying to schools in Cali, Chicago and the East Coast where we're from. However no schools in the town we are in now.

I'm very much confused what I should be doing right now, other than just trying to improve my grades, because nothing will be set as far as where I'll be until Feb or March of next year.

Anyone been in a similar position, and have and advice? I can't really be networking in 10 cities, and hard to be applying to a ton of places if I may end up in a different city.

My plan was right when she decides where she wants to go to school, go all out in that area to find a job, but of course it's a bit nerve-wracking to not be able to go all out right now.

Thank you, and I'll see everyone in the Vale for a while.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:01 pm

Vale and Valor wrote:Making an account for the Vale to see if anyone has any advice.

Anyway, I have average grades at an average school (think Emory/GW/Notre Dame/Vandy/WUSTL) and in a summer position that won't lead to permanent employment. (I'm a 3L now)

I'm very much in flux because my wife is applying to get a PhD entering Fall of 2015, and she's expecting based on her numbers and career to get a decent fellowship (full tuition + living stipend) however she's applying to schools in Cali, Chicago and the East Coast where we're from. However no schools in the town we are in now.

I'm very much confused what I should be doing right now, other than just trying to improve my grades, because nothing will be set as far as where I'll be until Feb or March of next year.

Anyone been in a similar position, and have and advice? I can't really be networking in 10 cities, and hard to be applying to a ton of places if I may end up in a different city.

My plan was right when she decides where she wants to go to school, go all out in that area to find a job, but of course it's a bit nerve-wracking to not be able to go all out right now.

Thank you, and I'll see everyone in the Vale for a while.


What kind of job are you looking for?

Private or public interest?

What kind of law do you want to do?

How many cities will she really be applying to? If you don't know yet, when will you know?

Vale and Valor
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Vale and Valor » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:45 pm

Would've loved to clerk but I know that ship has likely sailed. I will apply to bankruptcy and tax courts still

Want private sector, other than clerking

Interested in tax/bankruptcy without CPA, some business but no finance background, and likely don't want to do an llm. My resume is definitely geared towards these two areas. I'm okay not being at a firm, but I don't want to do ch 7/13 stuff.

She is still narrowing down, but her program specilty isn't super common, and she looking at about 12 schools in about 10 cities. From Ann Arbor to NYC. She of course has top choices, but they are more competitive.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:14 am

I would also like to get some general advice. Top 20% at UT...transfer student, top 5% at ttt. Working too mid law jobs this summer, I doubt either will lead to employment. I want private sector litigation. Mainly, however, I just want to become a good attorney and maybe do plaintiff stuff one day. Also not aversed to trying pd bc of the potential for trial experience. Any thoughts/ suggestions would be helpful.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:47 am

Vale and Valor wrote:Would've loved to clerk but I know that ship has likely sailed. I will apply to bankruptcy and tax courts still

Want private sector, other than clerking

Interested in tax/bankruptcy without CPA, some business but no finance background, and likely don't want to do an llm. My resume is definitely geared towards these two areas. I'm okay not being at a firm, but I don't want to do ch 7/13 stuff.

She is still narrowing down, but her program specilty isn't super common, and she looking at about 12 schools in about 10 cities. From Ann Arbor to NYC. She of course has top choices, but they are more competitive.


Sorry, I don't know much about this. Hopefully someone else can help.

Anonymous User wrote:I would also like to get some general advice. Top 20% at UT...transfer student, top 5% at ttt. Working too mid law jobs this summer, I doubt either will lead to employment. I want private sector litigation. Mainly, however, I just want to become a good attorney and maybe do plaintiff stuff one day. Also not aversed to trying pd bc of the potential for trial experience. Any thoughts/ suggestions would be helpful.



If you are going to try PD as a backup, keeping in mind they hate being backup, you need to hit up the PD/DA gunners thread. And take PD externships/internships ASAP.

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Gefuehlsecht
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Gefuehlsecht » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:41 am

Pretzel_Logic wrote:Hey bros...

I'm out of the Vale.

I'm taking a running leap off a cliff with this job, but I'm out of the Vale AND it's as an associate. As an attorney. Never stop hustling.


Congratulations, Pretzel, Esq.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:28 am

hey guys, I still check this thread regularly because I am rooting for all of you and happy about the recent job-obtainment since I last visited. even though I am out of the vale, I still feel very connected to it, and I just want to throw a feel-good message on the board.

I was in the vale all throughout 2014 until a couple weeks ago, so depressed that I couldn't sleep for nights at a time, checking this thread and others constantly, questioning everything I ever did. then, one day, I got an interview for a job as a federal judicial clerk. i did my best to put the self-doubt behind me, went in, delivered the best interview of my life. got the job, and now I have what many would consider to be the best (given the district), or at least one of the best, post-grad outcomes in my t30 graduating class.

never stop hustling. it'll be tough, but then one day it'll happen. going through this shit builds character that the guys who lined up the full time positions at the end of their cushy 8 week SA's never had the opportunity to build. I am confident that this will serve all of us in the long run, and we will appreciate what we have to a much greater degree than others to whom things have come more easily.

believe in yourselves and remember that this difficult time period will pass.

timmyd
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby timmyd » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:39 am

Above post is inspiring. Thanks man.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:50 am

timmyd wrote:Above post is inspiring. Thanks man.


Absolutely man. everybody should feel free to PM me if they want more of the above, or just somebody to listen to their issue and advise them as best I can.

I also want to give one more piece of general advice that many people don't think about. If you are unemployed for some time, or even if you are a 3L who is concerned about being unemployed, try to publish something. It's not super-easy but it's easier than people think to get a bite from one of those low-prestige schools' secondary law journals. having one or two publications (i'm talking full-length LR-type article where you advocate for a particular point/change in the law) will revolutionize your resume, cover letters, and interviews.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby legalese_retard » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:12 pm

I think my nerves are shot. Long story short, clerking for a judge and the clerkship ends in a couple of weeks. Haven't had any job prospects or interviews since I began applying in January. The other day, a recruiter at one of the big firms I applied to called chambers and asked to speak me about an employment application. I was in the courtroom, but my co-clerk took the message and told me to call back. I thought it was weird that they called chambers because I put my cell as my contact number, but was super excited that I might have finally received an interview.

Called back the recruiter the same day and told her I was returning her call. She thanked me for the quick response and said I was listed as a reference for a 3L that applied to their firm for a position next year. The 3L was a former intern for the court who listed me as reference. I later found out that even though she is a SA at another firm, she is applying to other firms as a back-up.

I remember telling her that she could use me as a reference, but I was caught completely off-guard by the phone call given my circumstance. Luckily I was able to snap back and gave her a strong recommendation. However, I felt crushed after getting off the phone with the recruiter. Especially since I went to the same law school as the intern, had better grades, and I have clerkship experience.

Sorry for the rant, but I try being optimistic about job prospects at the office, but I am freaking out on the inside.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:31 pm

legalese_retard wrote:I think my nerves are shot. Long story short, clerking for a judge and the clerkship ends in a couple of weeks. Haven't had any job prospects or interviews since I began applying in January. The other day, a recruiter at one of the big firms I applied to called chambers and asked to speak me about an employment application. I was in the courtroom, but my co-clerk took the message and told me to call back. I thought it was weird that they called chambers because I put my cell as my contact number, but was super excited that I might have finally received an interview.

Called back the recruiter the same day and told her I was returning her call. She thanked me for the quick response and said I was listed as a reference for a 3L that applied to their firm for a position next year. The 3L was a former intern for the court who listed me as reference. I later found out that even though she is a SA at another firm, she is applying to other firms as a back-up.

I remember telling her that she could use me as a reference, but I was caught completely off-guard by the phone call given my circumstance. Luckily I was able to snap back and gave her a strong recommendation. However, I felt crushed after getting off the phone with the recruiter. Especially since I went to the same law school as the intern, had better grades, and I have clerkship experience.

Sorry for the rant, but I try being optimistic about job prospects at the office, but I am freaking out on the inside.


what kind of clerkship? level/location/state v. fed?

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legalese_retard
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby legalese_retard » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:44 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:what kind of clerkship? level/location/state v. fed?


Federal district court

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:49 pm

LOL. Rejected from a head-hunter who specialized in entry-level work.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:I think my nerves are shot. Long story short, clerking for a judge and the clerkship ends in a couple of weeks. Haven't had any job prospects or interviews since I began applying in January. The other day, a recruiter at one of the big firms I applied to called chambers and asked to speak me about an employment application. I was in the courtroom, but my co-clerk took the message and told me to call back. I thought it was weird that they called chambers because I put my cell as my contact number, but was super excited that I might have finally received an interview.

Called back the recruiter the same day and told her I was returning her call. She thanked me for the quick response and said I was listed as a reference for a 3L that applied to their firm for a position next year. The 3L was a former intern for the court who listed me as reference. I later found out that even though she is a SA at another firm, she is applying to other firms as a back-up.

I remember telling her that she could use me as a reference, but I was caught completely off-guard by the phone call given my circumstance. Luckily I was able to snap back and gave her a strong recommendation. However, I felt crushed after getting off the phone with the recruiter. Especially since I went to the same law school as the intern, had better grades, and I have clerkship experience.

Sorry for the rant, but I try being optimistic about job prospects at the office, but I am freaking out on the inside.


what kind of clerkship? level/location/state v. fed?


I'm really sorry this happened. :( But, also I'm trying to think of if there would be a tactful way of following up with the firm recruiter on your application. Maybe if you waited a couple of days you could follow up and reference the conversation? I don't know, but I'm still always surprised that great fed clerks who didn't have SAs are having a harder time than you guys probably should. Keep your head up.




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