The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:56 pm

Find excuse to email them? Are you relocating? That would give tons of excuses...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:01 pm

spleenworship wrote:Find excuse to email them? Are you relocating? That would give tons of excuses...


Nope... Can't really think of any other excuses other than bluntly asking them for a confirmation :( ...
Just wondering what the value would be (other than peace of mind) in obtaining a written confirm though.
Is there?

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:03 pm

None I can think of right now.

Leave them alone, show up on your first day, and good luck.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:51 pm

Did you get a bar stipend? If it hasn't been disbursed, you can ask if and when that will happen, and I should give you some peace of mind

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:51 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:22 pm

rad lulz wrote:But honestly, I got an oral offer, and just acted like I had an offer, including going to visit my employer after school was over


Sounds like you had no problem when you showed up the first day thereafter? right?
Did you get to sign the contract the first day then?

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:44 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:59 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rad lulz wrote:But honestly, I got an oral offer, and just acted like I had an offer, including going to visit my employer after school was over


Sounds like you had no problem when you showed up the first day thereafter? right?
Did you get to sign the contract the first day then?

I don't remeber a contract

Shit you know what I lead you wrong bro I think they eventually sent me a letter saying pertinent details ab the job

Didn't sign it but ya I forgot they did that



Oh so there's no contract even after you start working? oh man.

AllTheLawz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby AllTheLawz » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rad lulz wrote:But honestly, I got an oral offer, and just acted like I had an offer, including going to visit my employer after school was over


Sounds like you had no problem when you showed up the first day thereafter? right?
Did you get to sign the contract the first day then?


This question keeps coming up.. There is no contract b/c you are an employee at-will. If you sign anything its a "terms of offer" or something like that. A contract wouldn't really do much because you aren't guaranteed anything. All can be changed with minimal notice, including what you are paid and your benefits.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:11 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Prairie
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Prairie » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Find excuse to email them? Are you relocating? That would give tons of excuses...


Nope... Can't really think of any other excuses other than bluntly asking them for a confirmation :( ...
Just wondering what the value would be (other than peace of mind) in obtaining a written confirm though.
Is there?


If the firm has an hr person/office manager, email that person, mention you are the new guy/girl starting in Oct., and request a w-4 form, and any/all benefits information. Ask if there is any documentation you need to provide before your first day. Ask about setting up direct deposit. Do you have to complete conflict and diligence worksheets? There are a lot of "detail" reasons to be in touch with your firm--but I would recommend reaching out to an hr/manager person, as mentioned.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:19 am

Prairie wrote:If the firm has an hr person/office manager, email that person, mention you are the new guy/girl starting in Oct., and request a w-4 form, and any/all benefits information. Ask if there is any documentation you need to provide before your first day. Ask about setting up direct deposit. Do you have to complete conflict and diligence worksheets? There are a lot of "detail" reasons to be in touch with your firm--but I would recommend reaching out to an hr/manager person, as mentioned.


I definitely agree - and even if there is not an HR person, you could ask the person who gave you an offer to point you to who can answer these questions.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:16 pm

Hey everyone,

I've been lurking on this thread for the better part of a year now, and I've seen a ton of great advice. I figure it's my turn to tap this board's knowledge.

I was just contacted for a phone interview for an attorney position with the in-house legal department of a financial services company. I have a small amount of knowledge of this area of law--mostly from taking a handful of classes in law school--but not much substantive industry experience.

I know it's very preliminary, but I was just curious to hear how these phone interviews typically go. Are they like screening interviews at OCI? Obviously, every firm/company is going to take a different approach, but I'm trying to be as prepared as possible.

If you guys can offer any advice whatsoever, I would really appreciate it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:37 pm

Bikeflip wrote:That's about par for the course, anon. Just keep applying and don't stress drink yourself to death.

As for qualifications, I don't think you can extrapolate as much as you want to: I'm c/o 2013 and still in the Vale post 1,000+ cover letters. I was median at a strong regional with interesting clinical experiences. Many of my classmates were in the Vale with magna cum laude on their resume. Others had honors and law review or honors and great clinical experiences. A few buddies were T14 and never left the Vale after a few years of trying.

Also bros, might have an interview with a solo. I'm not excited about it b/c there's limited information about this solo. No website. No linkedin. No professional volunteering experience. Only some bad AVVO reviews. He was also very specific about when I can interview, and his time is when I have a dr's appt I had to book months in advance.


I'm in the same boat. I'm c/o 2013 and was below median at my T30 (strong regional), but my grades weren't awful - I was a B+/B student. I don't know how many applications I've sent out so far, it has to be around 500. I got dinged after two interviews with smaller firms and and one for a court administrative position that didn't even require a law degree. I've had like two other random phone interviews, but that's kind of it. The only chance I had at anything was at this really strangely-run smaller firm that would have made my life hell, and that wasn't even a solid offer.

Has this whole process just turned anyone off to practicing law? Frankly, I could care less at this point. I went to an expensive school outside of my home market because I thought employment prospects would be good, even if I missed out on biglaw. No one mentioned bimodal salary distributions or anything of the sort. At this point, I'd much rather take any job that doesn't pay beans and has reasonable hours over the "prestige" of being an attorney. I feel like I didn't learn anything in law school except for theory I can bring up in casual conversations and I'm wondering what the hell I paid so much money for. I'm still applying to positions at law firms, but after a year of this, I just feel like I've hurled myself into a field I have no business being in. I don't know if that's true or if it's just my depression from being unemployed talking, but thinking about taking a job as a lawyer makes me more nervous and scared than excited. All I can see is working long hours in a high-pressure environment making less money than I could have with just a bachelor's degree in engineering or something.

A lot of days I just wonder if I should just go get an IT certification or try for a master's in compsci or something, there at least seem to be jobs in those fields and I've always been a techie. I have the standard private law school debt load (around 150K) but I can always go on PAYE so I can still have an OK standard of living, but I have to get a job first. They say you can do anything with a law degree, but I'm running out of ideas at the moment. I've been applying to a lot of non-lawyer jobs where my JD would at least be tangentially useful, but it's tough getting so many rejections. I went to a top 10 undergrad right here in my home state, but apparently the name on your degree counts for squat these days unless it's Harvard or Yale.

I really just don't care anymore. I'd take a job as a barista if it paid 40K a year (lol). I'm sick of all this pressure to "act like a professional" when I don't even know how I'm going to pay my bills. I want to get out there and work but I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.

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Dafaq
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dafaq » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Oh so there's no contract even after you start working? oh man.

The firm makes a verbal offer. In a few weeks they mail your compensation package (salary, benefits, start date, etc.). That’s it. Nothing to sign.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Find excuse to email them? Are you relocating? That would give tons of excuses...


Nope... Can't really think of any other excuses other than bluntly asking them for a confirmation :( ...
Just wondering what the value would be (other than peace of mind) in obtaining a written confirm though.
Is there?

I had formally accepted an offer in writing and still got fucked during 2L year, so paper isnt't everything. :lol:

Congrats, though!

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legalese_retard
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby legalese_retard » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote: Has this whole process just turned anyone off to practicing law? Frankly, I could care less at this point. I went to an expensive school outside of my home market because I thought employment prospects would be good, even if I missed out on biglaw. No one mentioned bimodal salary distributions or anything of the sort. At this point, I'd much rather take any job that doesn't pay beans and has reasonable hours over the "prestige" of being an attorney. I feel like I didn't learn anything in law school except for theory I can bring up in casual conversations and I'm wondering what the hell I paid so much money for. I'm still applying to positions at law firms, but after a year of this, I just feel like I've hurled myself into a field I have no business being in. I don't know if that's true or if it's just my depression from being unemployed talking, but thinking about taking a job as a lawyer makes me more nervous and scared than excited. All I can see is working long hours in a high-pressure environment making less money than I could have with just a bachelor's degree in engineering or something.


I wouldn't say I am turned off to the practice of law just yet, but I don't know I should apply to outside of the law. I went straight from undergrad to law school and I am about to finish clerking for a second judge. If I can't get hired as an attorney based on that experience, I don't know what kind of non-law job would.

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BruceWayne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:That's about par for the course, anon. Just keep applying and don't stress drink yourself to death.

As for qualifications, I don't think you can extrapolate as much as you want to: I'm c/o 2013 and still in the Vale post 1,000+ cover letters. I was median at a strong regional with interesting clinical experiences. Many of my classmates were in the Vale with magna cum laude on their resume. Others had honors and law review or honors and great clinical experiences. A few buddies were T14 and never left the Vale after a few years of trying.

Also bros, might have an interview with a solo. I'm not excited about it b/c there's limited information about this solo. No website. No linkedin. No professional volunteering experience. Only some bad AVVO reviews. He was also very specific about when I can interview, and his time is when I have a dr's appt I had to book months in advance.


I'm in the same boat. I'm c/o 2013 and was below median at my T30 (strong regional), but my grades weren't awful - I was a B+/B student. I don't know how many applications I've sent out so far, it has to be around 500. I got dinged after two interviews with smaller firms and and one for a court administrative position that didn't even require a law degree. I've had like two other random phone interviews, but that's kind of it. The only chance I had at anything was at this really strangely-run smaller firm that would have made my life hell, and that wasn't even a solid offer.

Has this whole process just turned anyone off to practicing law? Frankly, I could care less at this point. I went to an expensive school outside of my home market because I thought employment prospects would be good, even if I missed out on biglaw. No one mentioned bimodal salary distributions or anything of the sort. At this point, I'd much rather take any job that doesn't pay beans and has reasonable hours over the "prestige" of being an attorney. I feel like I didn't learn anything in law school except for theory I can bring up in casual conversations and I'm wondering what the hell I paid so much money for. I'm still applying to positions at law firms, but after a year of this, I just feel like I've hurled myself into a field I have no business being in. I don't know if that's true or if it's just my depression from being unemployed talking, but thinking about taking a job as a lawyer makes me more nervous and scared than excited. All I can see is working long hours in a high-pressure environment making less money than I could have with just a bachelor's degree in engineering or something.

A lot of days I just wonder if I should just go get an IT certification or try for a master's in compsci or something, there at least seem to be jobs in those fields and I've always been a techie. I have the standard private law school debt load (around 150K) but I can always go on PAYE so I can still have an OK standard of living, but I have to get a job first. They say you can do anything with a law degree, but I'm running out of ideas at the moment. I've been applying to a lot of non-lawyer jobs where my JD would at least be tangentially useful, but it's tough getting so many rejections. I went to a top 10 undergrad right here in my home state, but apparently the name on your degree counts for squat these days unless it's Harvard or Yale.

I really just don't care anymore. I'd take a job as a barista if it paid 40K a year (lol). I'm sick of all this pressure to "act like a professional" when I don't even know how I'm going to pay my bills. I want to get out there and work but I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.


Did I post this by accident lol? I swear I feel the EXACT same way.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:21 pm

Early last week I returned a call asking for my availability to interview this week. I called the guy back and gave my availability and he said he would call back to confirm. I didn't hear anything so on Monday I called him and he said they were still working it out but they currently had me set up for Thursday and he would call if they changed or email me with details for the interview. I hate having to call AGAIN, but I still haven't heard back and I don't really want to just show up at the specified time tomorrow with no confirmation or other information. This is so disorgnaized.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:47 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:50 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Early last week I returned a call asking for my availability to interview this week. I called the guy back and gave my availability and he said he would call back to confirm. I didn't hear anything so on Monday I called him and he said they were still working it out but they currently had me set up for Thursday and he would call if they changed or email me with details for the interview. I hate having to call AGAIN, but I still haven't heard back and I don't really want to just show up at the specified time tomorrow with no confirmation or other information. This is so disorgnaized.

I'd call again

Small orgs aren't set up to do hiring well and may just need a reminder

It's a biglaw firm : /

sandcastle45
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sandcastle45 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:29 pm

Yay for not even getting an interview for a non-law job you are overqualified for.

jaydizzle
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jaydizzle » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:36 pm

Just got word that my references are being checked for a policy position with the feds. This is good news after getting about 10 rejections today. Might the end of my time in the vale be near? Here is to hoping for the best.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:08 pm

Good luck!

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Early last week I returned a call asking for my availability to interview this week. I called the guy back and gave my availability and he said he would call back to confirm. I didn't hear anything so on Monday I called him and he said they were still working it out but they currently had me set up for Thursday and he would call if they changed or email me with details for the interview. I hate having to call AGAIN, but I still haven't heard back and I don't really want to just show up at the specified time tomorrow with no confirmation or other information. This is so disorgnaized.

I'd call again

Small orgs aren't set up to do hiring well and may just need a reminder

It's a biglaw firm : /

In that case if it's a hiring lady I say call again it's nbd




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