The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:33 am

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jaydizzle
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jaydizzle » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
jaydizzle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:two 2L friends at NU are without decent summer offers.
Dude A has 3.85 GPA. he is also above average looking and 6'3. not awkward, though not a SUPER CHARMER either.
Dude B has a 3.5 GPA. he is good looking but 5'6. outgoing.

Dude A has a crappy offer. if offered a job from his 2L summer job, it will only pay around 80k/yr.
Dude B has no offer.

Not too surprising Dude B has no offer... but wtfetty f @ Dude A?

Question: does Dude A have a decent chance at landing a good clerkship?


Ummm...... Since when is a job paying 80k crap? If Dude A does get the job, I say he was pretty successful.


I think for his GPA and the school, 80k is not great


People fall through the cracks at big law all the time now. There is no such thing as a guaranteed 160k. I know of top 1% at a T20 who struggled to get ANY job.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:40 am

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golfer89
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby golfer89 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:21 am

newyorker88 wrote:So, I interviewed with a solo today in MA and he said the salary for the position would be $30,000. Do you guys think that is sustainable?


I live in Boston right now. If you don't have family to live with it will be tough. If the offer is for western MA it might be more doable, but in Boston you'll be living like a student.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby newyorker88 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:34 am

golfer89 wrote:
newyorker88 wrote:So, I interviewed with a solo today in MA and he said the salary for the position would be $30,000. Do you guys think that is sustainable?


I live in Boston right now. If you don't have family to live with it will be tough. If the offer is for western MA it might be more doable, but in Boston you'll be living like a student.


It's in Framingham, MA. So, like 20 mins outside of Boston. From what I could see, Framingham seems a little cheaper to live than Boston.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:Yes, definitely. It's pretty sad/too bad though, bc they are rly hard workers and put in the time/etc. It doesn't really make sense to me in some cases why a certain candidate fell through the cracks. There really was nothing wrong with him. He's not a weirdo/antisocial/loser?

Have you been reading this thread? The whole point of the Vale is that the legal job market frequently sucks and that people struggle to get jobs who have absolutely no reason to struggle. Have you really been assuming that there's something wrong with everyone who doesn't get a job thrown at them at OCI? Even your candidate B doesn't sound like he has any good reason to be jobless. Why the fuck should it matter that he's 5' 6"? I don't know what rank 3.5 is at that school, but I bet there are others with that GPA who've gotten jobs. Wtf is this "it's understandable he doesn't have anything"? There are two many law students for not enough jobs, that's why a lot of people don't get jobs.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jaydizzle » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:41 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yes, definitely. It's pretty sad/too bad though, bc they are rly hard workers and put in the time/etc. It doesn't really make sense to me in some cases why a certain candidate fell through the cracks. There really was nothing wrong with him. He's not a weirdo/antisocial/loser?

Have you been reading this thread? The whole point of the Vale is that the legal job market frequently sucks and that people struggle to get jobs who have absolutely no reason to struggle. Have you really been assuming that there's something wrong with everyone who doesn't get a job thrown at them at OCI? Even your candidate B doesn't sound like he has any good reason to be jobless. Why the fuck should it matter that he's 5' 6"? I don't know what rank 3.5 is at that school, but I bet there are others with that GPA who've gotten jobs. Wtf is this "it's understandable he doesn't have anything"? There are two many law students for not enough jobs, that's why a lot of people don't get jobs.


Exactly. 80k sounds pretty damn tight. Maybe that 80k even comes with less hours.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:48 am

If you think 80K is a crappy offer to a freaking 2L, please get right the eff out of here and drink a nice tall glass of reality. Holy hell.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:52 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Even your candidate B doesn't sound like he has any good reason to be jobless. Why the fuck should it matter that he's 5' 6"? I don't know what rank 3.5 is at that school, but I bet there are others with that GPA who've gotten jobs. Wtf is this "it's understandable he doesn't have anything"? There are two many law students for not enough jobs, that's why a lot of people don't get jobs.

As a 5'6" outgoing person with a 3.5 GPA at NU (which is above median, btw), thanks for this.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby northwood » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:40 am

Pretzel_Logic wrote:If you think 80K is a crappy offer to a freaking 2L, please get right the eff out of here and drink a nice tall glass of reality. Holy hell.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby twenty 8 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:01 pm

As a recently minted alum I received two calls (2L and a 3L) asking for a meeting. In both cases the thinly vailed theme was “what is wrong with me?” Given that their grades were good, I do not find it unusual that someone might then believe it’s their height, weight, looks, etc. Especially true when there are positions that need to be filled and they are being passed over.

As a side note, I spoke with a friend at HR (in our home office) and she told me that one of the SAs was a total foul ball to the extent where a hiring partner wondered “what was I thinking?” Unfortunately this outcome adds fuel to the fire that all “no offered” candidates are messed up.

As far as the 30k job and the one for 80k. 80k is fine. Only good thing about the 30k job, at least you can say you’re employed.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:01 pm

I've been bar studying and haven't been paying attention. Has there been fail in this thread? Because if so, knock it off whoever is responsible. This ain't the place for that.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:17 pm

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:42 pm

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bk1 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:14 pm

The above poster has been warned as a 0L posting in the LE forum.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jbiresq » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:01 pm

Overheard two grads in the Starbucks parking lot talking shit about one of their classmates because she didn't have a job. Law students are the worst.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:34 pm

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:59 pm

Ugh rejected again. I did everything right: went to a T6, got good grades, worked on my interviewing when I realized it was a problem, yet I can't find anything. I know it's early but I feel really terrible.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:00 pm

I would appreciate any/some advice.. I got an offer over a phone. I don't think there will be any written offer confirming this though. I don't want to come across as paranoid (or unnecessarily stir the water). Should I request them to provide me with a written confirmation of the offer over email? or should I just take their word for it and just show up on the first day?
(Also not sure if writing is worth the hassle since offer/employment can be revoked at any time anyway?)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Jchance » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I would appreciate any/some advice.. I got an offer over a phone. I don't think there will be any written offer confirming this though. I don't want to come across as paranoid (or unnecessarily stir the water). Should I request them to provide me with a written confirmation of the offer over email? or should I just take their word for it and just show up on the first day?
(Also not sure if writing is worth the hassle since offer/employment can be revoked at any time anyway?)


Try to formally accept your offer via email, and if they write back, thats implicitly agreeing with you that there was an offer (for a peace of mind).

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:16 pm

I think I'm going to spend a lot of time in this forum from now on. T14 transfer from T25, 3.6 GPA from T25, 3.9 GPA at T14 in the Fall, 3.33 in the Spring. I thought if I repeated my Fall performance I'd have some sort of chance at the mythical 3L big law hiring, but with my shit Spring semester that's more or less out the window. I've got L. Rev., so that's something. I knew I should've dropped out after OCI didn't pan out 9 months ago.

I barely found anything to do this summer (interview/start date was in June...), and what I am doing will 100% not lead to permanent employment. Other than starting to mass mail in 2-3 weeks how should a new Vailer proceed? Snag some sort of small/mid-size internship during Fall semester and pray that they like me enough to actually keep me?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I think I'm going to spend a lot of time in this forum from now on. T14 transfer from T25, 3.6 GPA from T25, 3.9 GPA at T14 in the Fall, 3.33 in the Spring. I thought if I repeated my Fall performance I'd have some sort of chance at the mythical 3L big law hiring, but with my shit Spring semester that's more or less out the window. I've got L. Rev., so that's something. I knew I should've dropped out after OCI didn't pan out 9 months ago.

I barely found anything to do this summer (interview/start date was in June...), and what I am doing will 100% not lead to permanent employment. Other than starting to mass mail in 2-3 weeks how should a new Vailer proceed? Snag some sort of small/mid-size internship during Fall semester and pray that they like me enough to actually keep me?


From someone who followed a similar road (T2 Transfer to T6) here is what I would suggest:

- Don't mass mail. There are firms that seem to look for non practice specific 3Ls every year to but they basically want people with SA offers. I networked like crazy last summer with people at all these places. Got them to recommend me to the hiring people. I couldn't even get an interview. Places that will hire later on will look for 1 or 2 people to fill a specific practice need.

- Look at other things like consulting that hire in the fall and don't really care that much about your background. BCG (i'm not sure about McKinsey and Bain) is fairly liberal with handing out interviews to people who go to certain schools so if you start prepping cases now you will be in a good position come Sept./Oct. when they start interviewing.

- If you have a financial/accounting background look at the Big 4.

- Look to staff attorney clerkships at the 2nd/7th/8th/11th Circuits. They are not too selective but it will keep you off the breadline.

- Look at Magistrate clerkships

- Honestly your best bet is to find a small/midsize firm and clerk there

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I would appreciate any/some advice.. I got an offer over a phone. I don't think there will be any written offer confirming this though. I don't want to come across as paranoid (or unnecessarily stir the water). Should I request them to provide me with a written confirmation of the offer over email? or should I just take their word for it and just show up on the first day?
(Also not sure if writing is worth the hassle since offer/employment can be revoked at any time anyway?)


When is the start date?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:54 pm

Jchance wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would appreciate any/some advice.. I got an offer over a phone. I don't think there will be any written offer confirming this though. I don't want to come across as paranoid (or unnecessarily stir the water). Should I request them to provide me with a written confirmation of the offer over email? or should I just take their word for it and just show up on the first day?
(Also not sure if writing is worth the hassle since offer/employment can be revoked at any time anyway?)


Try to formally accept your offer via email, and if they write back, thats implicitly agreeing with you that there was an offer (for a peace of mind).



Guess I should have. But it's been 2 weeks almost so I feel like at this point, it's a bit too late and awkward to email? Thoughts?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:55 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would appreciate any/some advice.. I got an offer over a phone. I don't think there will be any written offer confirming this though. I don't want to come across as paranoid (or unnecessarily stir the water). Should I request them to provide me with a written confirmation of the offer over email? or should I just take their word for it and just show up on the first day?
(Also not sure if writing is worth the hassle since offer/employment can be revoked at any time anyway?)


When is the start date?



Start date is early Oct.




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