The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Thu May 01, 2014 3:08 pm

And good luck to you!

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Thu May 01, 2014 3:56 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:had a phone interview today for my [large] home state (top choice) trial court clerkship. think it went well, but the thing is 3 rounds. the most important thing, i found, was getting myself out of the depressed "vale" mindset, and (though it sounds weird) giving myself a bit of a pep talk beforehand about specifically why they should hire me.

continued good luck to all


Why should they hire you? Because your name is Jack, and you work out, everyday.

Good luck.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 01, 2014 8:08 pm

Had an interview today for a clerkship position. At the time I thought it went okay (very, very complimentary of my resume, had a few laughs, seemed to get along) but on the drive home I started thinking about all the little things I did wrong. Like blinking too much or not sitting up straight at times or not enunciating clearly enough, really stupid shit. This is the last interview I had lined up before graduation, I've been on three others this semester and struck out at all of them with dat radio silence (actually scratch that I got one rejection letter today. The interview was in February but, you know, thanks for the extra kick in the nuts). If I don't get this job I'll probably be in the Vale until after bar results come out. And I know everyone just brushes that off like it's nothing (my cs certainly does) but six months is a decently long time to be unemployed.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 01, 2014 8:43 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Thu May 01, 2014 9:03 pm

Yeah. Don't over analyze it. Let it go and hope for the best.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 01, 2014 11:00 pm

Just saw these posted, thought it might help someone. Keep the fait guys, I'm pulling for you all.

LISTING #1

AV- rated Downtown Brooklyn Medical Negligence and Complex Litigation firm seeks hard working, motivated attorney for entry level associate position. Excellent benefits and opportunities for a self starter. Strong analytical and writing skills necessary. Salary commensurate with experience.

POSITION TYPE
Full-time Permanent
DESIRED CLASS LEVEL(S)
Graduate/Alumni, 3L(4LE)
COMPENSATION DETAILS
commensurate with experience
CONTACT INFORMATION
employer: Bonina & Bonina, P.C. (Brooklyn, NY)
Name: Ms. Andrea E. Bonina
Title: Managing Partner
Address: 16 Court Street - Suite 1800
Brooklyn, NY
11241 United States

LISTING #2
The Bronx Defenders – an innovative, progressive, community-oriented indigent defense office in the South Bronx – seeks two immigration staff attorneys to join our immigration practice, one with an immediate start date and one with a flexible start date.

JOB DESCRIPTION

We seek two immigration attorneys to join our vibrant immigration practice. The job includes: advising noncitizens accused of crimes on the immigration consequences of convictions and working closely with our criminal defense attorneys to mitigate the impact of those convictions by crafting and advocating for appropriate alternative outcomes for clients; engaging in early-intervention advocacy when our clients are incarcerated with detainers to work to secure release when possible and prepare defenses against deportation before the clients' transfer to ICE custody; work with the attorneys from our family defense practice and their clients, parents accused of abuse or neglect, on immigration matters impacting their family case; represent non-citizens in applications for immigration status including citizenship, adjustment of status, special Immigrant Juvenile Status, Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, and remedies for victims of trafficking, domestic violence, and other crimes; represent noncitizens facing deportation in removal proceedings, both detained and non-detained, in proceedings including bond hearings, mental competency hearings, Motions to Terminate challenging the basis of removability, applications for relief including discretionary relief from criminal convictions, relief based on hardship to family members, and persecution-based relief.

QUALIFICATIONS

We seek application with a demonstrated commitment to public service, immigration defense, as well as to working with clients from poor communities. Applicants must be highly motivated, creative, flexible and able to work as part of an interdisciplinary team of advocates. The position requires strong oral and written advocacy skills, excellence in legal research and writing, and excellent organizational skills as well as the ability to work and problem-solve under pressure.

Applicants must have graduated from an ABA accredited law school and be admitted to the New York State Bar or available to sit for the July bar exam. Prior experience in immigration law required; experience in representing noncitizens in removal proceedings strongly preferred. Spanish fluency or high proficiency is required as the job requires extensive legal counseling and representation in the Spanish language.

The Bronx Defenders is an equal opportunity employer: People of color; women; people with disabilities; gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people; and people with personal experience with the criminal justice system are welcome and encouraged to apply
POSITION TYPE
Full-time Permanent
DESIRED CLASS LEVEL(S)
Graduate/Alumni, 3L(4LE)
COMPENSATION DETAILS
Starting salary is commensurate with experience. Excellent benefits.

sandcastle45
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sandcastle45 » Sat May 03, 2014 2:49 pm

Hi guys, new poster here…I've been lurking for a while. 3L, graduating in 2 weeks.

Just feeling sad about jobs lately. The worst part of it is that I would be perfectly fine getting a decent non-law job in either of two fields that I'm interested in (don't really want to specify to maintain privacy). Both of the fields are sort of law-adjacent and I've taken classes related to them. The reason I feel so depressed about this whole thing is that I've applied to like at least 15-20 jobs in these fields (I know this may not be as much as some of you guys), and I haven't heard ANYTHING. Zilch, nada, nothing. This is what is killing me. If I can't even get an interview in fields that supposedly aren't as competitive as law, and I actually do have some experience in, then what the hell am I gonna do? Some of my friends seem to think it will get better after the bar, but I don't really understand how I'll be in a better position then. Nothing will really have changed. I don't have geographic mobility. I need to stay where I live now.

I'm just really nervous. I don't live with my parents. My husband doesn't make a lot of money, I've been living off loans for 3 years. They are about to run out and I will need to pay rent, so I can't just sit on my thumbs till bar results come out. I would be willing to get another job, but honestly I don't want to be waitressing or something like that (which I don't even think I would get hired for, I have no experience in that), but as I explained above, I'm just freaking out that I won't be able to get ANY job, let alone a law job, if I haven't even gotten an interview for those non-law jobs I explained above.

My parents don't get it either. Mom today said she was talking to my aunt, who told her I should apply to insurance companies. Wanted to bang my head against a desk. I have no interest in insurance. I did not take any insurance classes. Therefore, I highly doubt, even if there are legal jobs at insurance companies, they would even interview me over people who actually did take insurance-related classes and had insurance internships. Nothing in my resume screams insurance or business. My parents literally think I can just apply for any job in field and get it.

She also told me today that my brother get offered a paid summer internship at a well-known company and is waiting to hear from another one. He's just graduating undergrad, and I know this is super stupid, but it made me feel like shit. I've seen his resume and it's a piece of crap. I know it's just a summer internship but how come I could never get paid legal ones? I actually had legitimate internships at legitimate organizations but I can't even get a fucking interview in non-law fields that I actually have experience in. Both my brother and sister got decent jobs/opportunities right out of undergrad. So why the fuck did I go to law school again, please tell me.

I just don't know what do. It's getting to the point like…seriously concerned about finding any job. I don't know how I'm gonna pay my bills.

Thanks for listening.

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Lwoods
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lwoods » Sat May 03, 2014 3:10 pm

Sorry to hear it, sandcastle--this market is brutal. :( And it's tough to be tied to one geographic area.

However, I think it's good that you have targeted interests--I know that's a bit counterintuitive, but it will allow you to brand yourself. Of course you should apply any opening you see (and retail jobs, etc) to pay the bills in the mean time, but mentally compile all of your strengths and experience to develop a good pitch for yourself.

Then, reach out to everyone you know in the field, particularly past bosses. Tell them you're looking. Remember that networking only rarely works in the reach out to Bob and Bob gives you a job sort of way. It's more like, reach out to Bob, who introduces you to Lisa, who advises you join the Sandcastle Club, where you meet David, who introduces you to James, Lesley, and Joyce. And then you realize you had applied to Joyce's employer three months ago, so you follow up with her in a more directed way. Because you have this pitch of wanting to work in X or Y industry, people in that industry will want to help you, in part because they'll be flattered to hear from someone who wants to do what they do. There will be a lot of dead ends in the short term, but it will be more productive than sending your resume into the abyss.

Best of luck.

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hous
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hous » Sat May 03, 2014 3:21 pm

sandcastle45 wrote:Hi guys, new poster here…I've been lurking for a while. 3L, graduating in 2 weeks.

....


You should really apply to everything you find on your schools simplicity, craigslist, linkedin, USAJobs, Monster, CareerBuilder.... You get the point.

You can't be selective, not in this market and especially not now. You have to throw everything out to get that first job and take what you can get.

Unfortunately insurance seems to be the market with the most job postings and easiest to get an interview. You should apply to them and interview for it.

Its not to late to get a job, not even close, but its in your best interest to lower your selectivity. You don't want to be in the Vale this time next year when the raising 3L's are competiting for the same jobs.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sun May 04, 2014 10:23 am

Sandcastle,

Keep applying. Keep your chin up.

I'm in a similar situation to you, so I really feel your pain. Keep plugging and feel free to come in and talk anytime.

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Kronk
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kronk » Sun May 04, 2014 11:14 am

They might not be taking your application as seriously as they would normally because you're in law school and not even graduated yet, too. They might think you're also looking for law jobs and just sent an application to them for the interim until you find a law job or as a backup plan.

I'd just make it very clear in a cover letter or whatever that you're serious about it, if you haven't already. Be convincing.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Sun May 04, 2014 12:40 pm

I was in your boat, looking for a non-law job as a 3L. A couple pieces of advice, First, you should make sure you always send a cover letter and develop a really good story why you want (and are qualified for) the job. I sent one even if the application didn't require it. You have to sell yourself to someone who might just view you as a potential lawyer who'll bolt at the first opportunity. So many people who go the non-law route just change a few words on their law firm cover letters and send them out. I develop a tailored cover letter that explains why I'd be great for a specific job in a specific company. It is more time intensive but I think you get better results. Secondly, apply widely as everyone else said but remember the companies in your new field may hire differently than law firms. I applied to a lot of places before I started to get interviews. In the field I'm going to be working in the hiring cycle is different than law firms thus it was a few months before I heard back from anybody beyond "we received your app." You'll get through this.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Sun May 04, 2014 12:40 pm

Kronk wrote:They might not be taking your application as seriously as they would normally because you're in law school and not even graduated yet, too. They might think you're also looking for law jobs and just sent an application to them for the interim until you find a law job or as a backup plan.

I'd just make it very clear in a cover letter or whatever that you're serious about it, if you haven't already. Be convincing.


I didn't notice you made the same point.

ditch digger
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ditch digger » Sun May 04, 2014 1:24 pm

One of my professors suggested that I send an application to a local law firm. The firm's website instructs all applicants to email their materials to the head of the hiring committee. The available position is in the firm's commercial law division, and on of the directors of the commercial law division happens to be a fellow alum, however, I do not know his/her name. Should I cc this director when emailing my materials to the hiring committee?

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Sun May 04, 2014 2:04 pm

ditch digger wrote:One of my professors suggested that I send an application to a local law firm. The firm's website instructs all applicants to email their materials to the head of the hiring committee. The available position is in the firm's commercial law division, and on of the directors of the commercial law division happens to be a fellow alum, however, I do not know his/her name. Should I cc this director when emailing my materials to the hiring committee?

I wouldn't CC that person unless you first reach out to them to chat about the position or firm.

Just yesterday I was talking to someone who graduated from my school and works at a firm, and a girl currently at my school copied her. The first thing the managing partner asked was, "do you know this 3L?" My friend was caught off guard and had no choice but to answer honestly, "no, I have no idea who that is.." This without a question hurt that 3L who randomly copied my friend without notice.

I think before you do something like that there should be some context beyond having graduated from the same school. If your professor knows people there and wouldn't mind you could say, "Professor X suggested I reach out to you..."

sandcastle45
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sandcastle45 » Sun May 04, 2014 2:43 pm

They might not be taking your application as seriously as they would normally because you're in law school and not even graduated yet, too. They might think you're also looking for law jobs and just sent an application to them for the interim until you find a law job or as a backup plan.

I'd just make it very clear in a cover letter or whatever that you're serious about it, if you haven't already. Be convincing


I have been. Plus the two areas I've been applying to - I do have experience in, even though they have been legal internships, because they are connected to the area. It's very obvious I'm interested in this area because my resume reflects it. But maybe I will also try to emphasize that I won't bolt. How do you recommend saying that so it doesn't come off as them then asking you, well why did you even go to law school then?

To hous, I'm not being selective. By the insurance thing - I mean, if a job says you need 5-10 years of experience as a financial manager (just an example) or something like that, I'm not applying to it because I clearly don't have that. If I haven't heard back from jobs in areas I do have experience in, I don't see how applying to an insurance job when I have no experience and they require it, would get me a callback?

sundontshine
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sundontshine » Sun May 04, 2014 4:38 pm

sandcastle45 wrote:But maybe I will also try to emphasize that I won't bolt. How do you recommend saying that so it doesn't come off as them then asking you, well why did you even go to law school then?


For non-law jobs, you need to develop a very strong narrative in your cover letter about a few different things.

1) Why/how you decided you don't want to be a lawyer. If you can communicate this effectively, then they won't be wondering as much if you'll bolt. Pick things you don't like about law school and your internships, and talk about how they aren't something you can see yourself doing for a career. If you ignore this part, they'll likely just see you as someone who is applying there as a backup plan while they wait to find a law job. And make sure that these things you talk about aren't also present at the company you're applying to (don't tell a consulting firm you don't want to be a lawyer because of the long hours, etc.)
2) How your legal/law school experience relates to the position. Even if it's just that you honed your writing, research, and critical thinking skills. Just something that they can see as a positive of hiring someone from law school.
3) Why you want to work at that company, in that position, specifically.

If you can hit on all three of those in your cover letter, you'll give yourself a good chance of at least getting an interview. It took me literally months of talking to people and refining my "why not law" narrative for me to finally get to something that was both true and understandable for someone who has never interviewed law students before. Once you can get that down, in the interview you can better explain why you want the position and give them more assurance that you won't bolt. But, if the hiring person doesn't come away from your cover letter impressed and understanding exactly why you want to work there instead of at a law firm, you won't get the interview.

Also, I would recommend networking in those non-law fields to whatever extent possible. My best success for landing non-legal interviews was through personal contacts who work in those companies. Having someone on the inside who can communicate to the hiring manager why you're interested in the position and not wanting to practice law is huge.

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Kronk
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kronk » Mon May 05, 2014 2:22 pm

Got an interview for a job in Vail.

Image

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Mon May 05, 2014 2:52 pm

Kronk wrote:Got an interview for a job in Vail.

Image


Congrats hope you get it. Seems like that would be an awesome place to work.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon May 05, 2014 4:09 pm

Kronk wrote:Got an interview for a job in Vail.

Image

Good luck!!!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bjsesq » Mon May 05, 2014 4:23 pm

Kronk wrote:Got an interview for a job in Vail.

Image


America, fuck yeah. Do well, dude.

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Kronk
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kronk » Mon May 05, 2014 4:57 pm

ty guys, hoping the competition is a little less severe than in Denver or Boulder because it's a mountain town, even if it is a resort.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon May 05, 2014 5:16 pm

Good luck, Kronk. And please stop posting pictures of me.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 05, 2014 10:24 pm

So I have a bit of a weird situation. Jobless 3L at a T14. I landed an interview with a firm in State A where I have concrete ties. However, I have already signed up to take the bar in State B in July and the deadline for signing up for the July exam in State A will have passed by the time I would, in theory, get an offer. I never indicated in my application that I was taking the bar in State A but they still decided to interview me. Am I dead in the water? Should I cancel the interview?

TYIA.

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Kronk
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kronk » Mon May 05, 2014 10:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So I have a bit of a weird situation. Jobless 3L at a T14. I landed an interview with a firm in State A where I have concrete ties. However, I have already signed up to take the bar in State B in July and the deadline for signing up for the July exam in State A will have passed by the time I would, in theory, get an offer. I never indicated in my application that I was taking the bar in State A but they still decided to interview me. Am I dead in the water? Should I cancel the interview?

TYIA.


The states don't both happen to be UBE states, do they?

You could ask the firm.




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