The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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dresden doll
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dresden doll » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:12 pm

If the place you volunteer at post-graduation is your only post-grad legal job, being able to use them as a reference can be very important. I can totally understand why anon was distressed.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:02 pm

presh wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
You shouldn't give two fucks about a place that doesn't pay you a salary.


Obviously someone looking for a job is going to give a fuck about a place that could potentially serve as a reference or provide connections to get them a permanent position. That's not rocket science. Why are you being such a dick ITT?


Oh. Okay. Hiring rates for those who completed an unpaid internship (37%) were almost the same for those who had not completed any internship at all (35%). Students who have a history of a paid internship were far more likely (63%) to secure employment. See Forbes. Furthermore, a reference is hardly needed from an unpaid employer, certainly not an employer that gets pissed when their unpaid "employee" needs to work at their other job so they can SURVIVE. Need a reference? A law school professor, career services office, dean, school year externship, summer internship will suffice! Or hell, why not volunteer somewhere else? Unless this organization is a federal district judge, United States Department of Justice, or a vault 250 law firm, I certainly would not give two fucks about hurting their feelings and would not bend over backwards to meet their needs if they can't even meet the simple need of paying someone who is advancing their organization. But that's fine. You can be a slave to someone who doesn't pay you.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:05 pm

sparty, are those numbers talking about legal internships or all internships across all professions?

also, calm down or get out.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:08 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:sparty, are those numbers talking about legal internships or all internships across all professions?

also, calm down or get out.


All internships. But the theme is still true: "You are worth more than chronic volunteer work. Don’t fall for the unpaid internship trap"

gfunk01
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gfunk01 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:19 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:sparty, are those numbers talking about legal internships or all internships across all professions?

also, calm down or get out.


Think people are talking at cross issues. Anon and everyone has a right to be treated with respect, and this place was out of line. Unfortunately, if a place is not paying you, sparty is right that will have to put your foot down and remind them that you are making decisions for your best interest and not worry about hurt feelings, b/c in the end they only care about themselves.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:01 pm

In DC interviewing for a couple of positions at the the Presidential Management Fellows program career fair and trying to get some more interviews! Hope it goes well.

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presh
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby presh » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:05 pm

It's not that Sparty is wrong, though I agree with you that people are talking at cross purposes here. It's that he seems to be going out of his way to make his points in the most abrasive way possible. Which is an especially asshole thing to do in a thread where people are already dealing with an incredibly discouraging time in their careers.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:27 pm

Good luck anon!

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:59 pm

spleenworship wrote:Good luck anon!

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:00 pm

Sometimes I subconsciously anthropomorphize my computer and wonder if he is really pissed that I hit refresh on my inbox every 3 - 5 minutes.

If he had hands, I bet he'd have throttled me by now.

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hichvichwoh
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hichvichwoh » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:05 pm

spleenworship wrote:Sometimes I subconsciously anthropomorphize my computer and wonder if he is really pissed that I hit refresh on my inbox every 3 - 5 minutes.

If he had hands, I bet he'd have throttled me by now.


your computer is male?

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:47 pm

hichvichwoh wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Sometimes I subconsciously anthropomorphize my computer and wonder if he is really pissed that I hit refresh on my inbox every 3 - 5 minutes.

If he had hands, I bet he'd have throttled me by now.


your computer is male?


Sort of. I named him after Holly from Red Dwarf. Who later had a face sex change to become a woman. So I suppose by calling him "him" I'm expressing my cis privilege or something.


On another note, I had to take my school's pre graduation employment survey. So depressing.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:13 pm

Had to turn down temp work with the in state but out of town PDs offices. I did this because I would have to move twice in a year to obtain possible employment, but I have an offer of possible employment in town. Possible offer.

I wouldn't have done it if not for the fact that they needed an answer yesterday from me.

God, I hope I don't regret this.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:24 pm

spleenworship wrote:Had to turn down temp work with the in state but out of town PDs offices. I did this because I would have to move twice in a year to obtain possible employment, but I have an offer of possible employment in town. Possible offer.

I wouldn't have done it if not for the fact that they needed an answer yesterday from me.

God, I hope I don't regret this.


I know the feeling--I turned down a trial level clerkship in an adjacent state because it simply didn't "feel" right, especially given the timeline where the needed an answer. Now, I remain in the vale for who knows how long...but even now, some months later, I still don't think I regret it.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:15 pm

Got emailed for a phone screening interview for my state superior (big-deal crimes and big-deal civil matters; no family, land, etc.) court clerkship. Does anybody have any advice about how to handle these?

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:16 pm

Not directly on point, objctnyrhnr, but here's my experience: I had a 2 phone interviews for trial clerk stuff last year. Each one was different. One judge was uptight. The other was easy going and let his clerk do the interview. Don't be afraid to stand up and walk around if it will help you relax. Just don't wear shoes that will make noise if you do.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:21 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:Got emailed for a phone screening interview for my state superior (big-deal crimes and big-deal civil matters; no family, land, etc.) court clerkship. Does anybody have any advice about how to handle these?


Have good reasons for wanting to do the clerkship and show how your experience or classes have prepped you to make the judge's life easier.


That said, I didn't get hired after my interviews, so maybe someone else in here will have better advice

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:15 pm

spleenworship wrote:
objctnyrhnr wrote:Got emailed for a phone screening interview for my state superior (big-deal crimes and big-deal civil matters; no family, land, etc.) court clerkship. Does anybody have any advice about how to handle these?

Have good reasons for wanting to do the clerkship and show how your experience or classes have prepped you to make the judge's life easier.

That said, I didn't get hired after my interviews, so maybe someone else in here will have better advice

:lol: I felt really bad for laughing at this. That's solid advice though.

They may ask you about coursework. I only had one clerkship interview and it was for a BK court though, so that's probably why they asked me.

I could see them asking something like "why a state court?"

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:25 pm

So they finished filling the local PD positions here in my city. They hired someone without any prior PD internships or externships, who had taken no advanced trial classes.

Even better, I located a pattern: with one exception (an out of state HLS kid) every single one of them interviewed with one of the managers. The people who interviewed with the other manager (who quit two weeks later and suddenly) went 0 for 8. So the fact that the other manager's remaining time slots were when I was in class, and I decided not to skip class.... that's what fucked me. That. A random decision one day.

Fuck.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:39 pm

spleenworship wrote:So they finished filling the local PD positions here in my city. They hired someone without any prior PD internships or externships, who had taken no advanced trial classes.

Even better, I located a pattern: with one exception (an out of state HLS kid) every single one of them interviewed with one of the managers. The people who interviewed with the other manager (who quit two weeks later and suddenly) went 0 for 8. So the fact that the other manager's remaining time slots were when I was in class, and I decided not to skip class.... that's what fucked me. That. A random decision one day.

Fuck.


I'm really sorry. I've been reading your posts and it seems like you have been very, very unlucky. The only bright side here is that your luck has to turn around.

Hiring is so much about timing, which is 100% about luck. Luck that there was an opening, luck that you saw it. Luck that you applied at the right point of the day so they guy reading your email is in a good mood and emails you back for a screener. But there is no way this can continue for you. I saw that you are still in school…. You actually have tons of time left. You are graduating from a regional school, no? Most people who get jobs from your school haven't got them yet. Dude I know that doesn't help or make you feel better, but it's true so you gotta keep grinding. Even if it takes you another nine months… Something will open up and you will be right there to get it.

Best of fucking luck.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:02 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
spleenworship wrote:So they finished filling the local PD positions here in my city. They hired someone without any prior PD internships or externships, who had taken no advanced trial classes.

Even better, I located a pattern: with one exception (an out of state HLS kid) every single one of them interviewed with one of the managers. The people who interviewed with the other manager (who quit two weeks later and suddenly) went 0 for 8. So the fact that the other manager's remaining time slots were when I was in class, and I decided not to skip class.... that's what fucked me. That. A random decision one day.

Fuck.


I'm really sorry. I've been reading your posts and it seems like you have been very, very unlucky. The only bright side here is that your luck has to turn around.

Hiring is so much about timing, which is 100% about luck. Luck that there was an opening, luck that you saw it. Luck that you applied at the right point of the day so they guy reading your email is in a good mood and emails you back for a screener. But there is no way this can continue for you. I saw that you are still in school…. You actually have tons of time left. You are graduating from a regional school, no? Most people who get jobs from your school haven't got them yet. Dude I know that doesn't help or make you feel better, but it's true so you gotta keep grinding. Even if it takes you another nine months… Something will open up and you will be right there to get it.

Best of fucking luck.


You are only a 3L? You have been complaining all this time and you are a 3L? You haven't even passed the bar? You have had like 10 interviews already? You haven't even graduated yet? I can't right now....

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:08 pm

I have a mortgage to pay this summer. Do you have one of those?

I have two kids to feed. Do you have that?

I can't take loans this summer. If I don't have a job, my family loses their home. And doesn't eat.

You ever think that maybe there was a reason I was freaking out? Despite the fact that I am only a 3L?

You don't know my situation. So just shut up sparty.

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:18 pm

spleen, your negativity is obviously the issue here. Be more positive, like sparty!

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:19 pm

Hopefully out of the vale. Got a conditional offer from a city agency, just need approval from the Office of Management and Budget since wasn't the advertised position I guess. Crossing my fingers, been here a while. Will of course give more details when gets confirmed.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hopefully out of the vale. Got a conditional offer from a city agency, just need approval from the Office of Management and Budget since wasn't the advertised position I guess. Crossing my fingers, been here a while. Will of course give more details when gets confirmed.


I hope it goes through. That way I can say Congratulations!




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