The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:48 pm

Okay - then why would they hire you for your access? Why don't they just get their own accounts?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:58 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Okay - then why would they hire you for your access? Why don't they just get their own accounts?


Because they don't have a firm account, they are too expensive. The partners and other associates will have access but it is against the terms of service for them to give their account information to others to use, these accounts are for personal use only as long as you are the person using it. It's intended you will use it for work and is covered by the state bar association in many if not most jurisdictions.

I wouldn't feel comfortable about giving my log in credentials to a recent grad, I don't know about others though.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:01 pm

Interesting. I always understood that students couldn't use their accounts for work that would go to a private employer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Okay - then why would they hire you for your access? Why don't they just get their own accounts?


Because they don't have a firm account, they are too expensive. The partners and other associates will have access but it is against the terms of service for them to give their account information to others to use, these accounts are for personal use only as long as you are the person using it. It's intended you will use it for work and is covered by the state bar association in many if not most jurisdictions.

I wouldn't feel comfortable about giving my log in credentials to a recent grad, I don't know about others though.


In regard to why they don't use their own accounts, because they can pay a recent grad $20 an hour to do legal research while they bill their clients $150 an hour as paralegal pay rather than the $350 if they did it. Clients care about keep their bills down and firms care about keep clients happy. Its completely ethical, responsible, and good practice.

The partners I have worked for probably don't even know how to use the databases, they have better things to do than do law clerk work.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:04 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Interesting. I always understood that students couldn't use their accounts for work that would go to a private employer.


Its not a student account, its an account you get from a bar association. It's intended to be used in an employment setting to assist clients. All attorney's and/or bar applicants have access in many if not most jurisdictions.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Interesting. I always understood that students couldn't use their accounts for work that would go to a private employer.


Its not a student account, its an account you get from a bar association. It's intended to be used in an employment setting to assist clients. All attorney's and/or bar applicants have access in many if not most jurisdictions.

Ah, that's my misunderstanding, I thought you were talking about a student account. Never mind.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:12 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Interesting. I always understood that students couldn't use their accounts for work that would go to a private employer.


Its not a student account, its an account you get from a bar association. It's intended to be used in an employment setting to assist clients. All attorney's and/or bar applicants have access in many if not most jurisdictions.

Ah, that's my misunderstanding, I thought you were talking about a student account. Never mind.


Silly Mouse. ;P

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:22 am

Jessuf wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What does one do when they didn't get a paying job in a super expensive city? I have an opportunity to volunteer, but don't know how I am going to survive!

School funding, get a second job, parental support

Unfortunately school funding and parental support isn't an option. If I'm volunteering 20-25 hours a week I am not sure that will be enough to cut it rent wise. Does anyone have experience doing this and how they made it work?

I've been thinking of volunteering for 3 full days and then working on the other days so that I can pay bills. I was honestly just considering working at my law school since it pays decently, the cafeteria there is good and has a student discount, the gym is right there, and I can screw off on TLS and facebook the whole time.


I am very, very wary of working and volunteering unless both your employers are very understanding. I had a volunteer job a few months ago and they wanted me to take up to two weeks off of work at my paying job to go watch a trial out of town. I was seriously worried about paying my bills at that point, didn't have a permanent job lined up or any interviews on the horizon and couldn't afford the travel expenses or time off. When I told them I couldn't go, they freaked out and guilt tripped me, told me I didn't value my legal career enough, told everyone they could find that I was choosing my crappy part time job over going to watch a trial and gain experience (when I would have absolutely loved to go and was crushed that I couldn't make it work). It was a really demoralizing experience and I've been afraid to ever ask them for a reference. So just be wary that even though you're volunteering, a lot of employers won't be understanding if you need time off for your second job.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dunkin » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am very, very wary of working and volunteering unless both your employers are very understanding. I had a volunteer job a few months ago and they wanted me to take up to two weeks off of work at my paying job to go watch a trial out of town. I was seriously worried about paying my bills at that point, didn't have a permanent job lined up or any interviews on the horizon and couldn't afford the travel expenses or time off. When I told them I couldn't go, they freaked out and guilt tripped me, told me I didn't value my legal career enough, told everyone they could find that I was choosing my crappy part time job over going to watch a trial and gain experience (when I would have absolutely loved to go and was crushed that I couldn't make it work). It was a really demoralizing experience and I've been afraid to ever ask them for a reference. So just be wary that even though you're volunteering, a lot of employers won't be understanding if you need time off for your second job.


What a horrible place. FWIW, my experience was completely different. I volunteered for a PI organization while working my non-law related job, and both places were cool with it. The PI place knew that volunteers realistically had to work unless they/their parents were independently wealthy in my pricey California city. The non-law related place knew I volunteered, though I had to take a few weeks off from volunteering in the beginning. Although I ended up working 6-7 days a week, it ended up working out.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kronk » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:09 pm

Yeah I don't think that anecdote is indicative of how it would normally turn out. lol. Sorry to hear that, though.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:43 pm

Ugh. Had a CB with a top NYC firm last week. Prepped the shit out of it and bulked up my knowledge of the practice. I thought I did well with the first 3 interviewers but then the last one, who was the practice head, hated me. Shat on me for not having an SA, said I only wanted the job b/c I want to be in NYC and basically intimated she couldn't understand why they interviewed me.

Just got the rejection today. I'm so sick of this process. I'm better at handling it than before but god it's hard.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Just got the rejection today. I'm so sick of this process. I'm better at handling it than before but god it's hard.



I has feels for you. Just keep plugging.

Also, hopefully the practice head will contract the clap this weekend. What a douche.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:53 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Just got the rejection today. I'm so sick of this process. I'm better at handling it than before but god it's hard.



I has feels for you. Just keep plugging.

Also, hopefully the practice head will contract the clap this weekend. What a douche.


Thanks. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. The practice and the work sounded boring and I was pursuing it because it's a job and it paid well not because I really wanted it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:24 pm

After about 7 months of nothing... I finally have an interview at a firm that I really love in the practice area that I want.

I'm the only one interviewing for this position - no one else. Someone I worked with over the summer (of my second year) forwarded my resume around in the morning and I got invited for an interview in the afternoon.

Super excited. Now I just hope I pass the interview. :-/

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:27 pm

Good luck anon. Just relax. You got this.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:36 pm

spleenworship wrote:Good luck anon. Just relax. You got this.



And other anons going through hell this week, hugs brews. Asshole department heads and asshole non-profits sound awful.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:45 pm

dunkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am very, very wary of working and volunteering unless both your employers are very understanding. I had a volunteer job a few months ago and they wanted me to take up to two weeks off of work at my paying job to go watch a trial out of town. I was seriously worried about paying my bills at that point, didn't have a permanent job lined up or any interviews on the horizon and couldn't afford the travel expenses or time off. When I told them I couldn't go, they freaked out and guilt tripped me, told me I didn't value my legal career enough, told everyone they could find that I was choosing my crappy part time job over going to watch a trial and gain experience (when I would have absolutely loved to go and was crushed that I couldn't make it work). It was a really demoralizing experience and I've been afraid to ever ask them for a reference. So just be wary that even though you're volunteering, a lot of employers won't be understanding if you need time off for your second job.


What a horrible place. FWIW, my experience was completely different. I volunteered for a PI organization while working my non-law related job, and both places were cool with it. The PI place knew that volunteers realistically had to work unless they/their parents were independently wealthy in my pricey California city. The non-law related place knew I volunteered, though I had to take a few weeks off from volunteering in the beginning. Although I ended up working 6-7 days a week, it ended up working out.


Yeah, the attorneys paraded around our office and told all the other volunteers "hey, anon decided she wants to go 'brew coffee' (not actually working at a coffee shop so substitute another menial task here, just afraid of outing myself) instead of going to a trial HAHAHA!!!" One of the other volunteers said "well I understand we all need money, but that's such a poor use of your time, you're here to learn and you're wasting this opportunity. Why don't you just take out more loans?" Coming from a person that was being fully supported by her rich parents. It was miserable, but I've had other positive volunteer experiences too. I'm not saying all places are like that but it's best to be up front about working two jobs and having to split your time and see if that's going to be a problem for them.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dresden doll » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:

Yeah, the attorneys paraded around our office and told all the other volunteers "hey, anon decided she wants to go 'brew coffee' (not actually working at a coffee shop so substitute another menial task here, just afraid of outing myself) instead of going to a trial HAHAHA!!!" One of the other volunteers said "well I understand we all need money, but that's such a poor use of your time, you're here to learn and you're wasting this opportunity. Why don't you just take out more loans?" Coming from a person that was being fully supported by her rich parents. It was miserable, but I've had other positive volunteer experiences too. I'm not saying all places are like that but it's best to be up front about working two jobs and having to split your time and see if that's going to be a problem for them.


We had volunteers at both my old and current job, and no one would have even thought of berating someone like that. I think you just worked for some serious assholes. Really, that is legit reprehensible.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:19 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:

Yeah, the attorneys paraded around our office and told all the other volunteers "hey, anon decided she wants to go 'brew coffee' (not actually working at a coffee shop so substitute another menial task here, just afraid of outing myself) instead of going to a trial HAHAHA!!!" One of the other volunteers said "well I understand we all need money, but that's such a poor use of your time, you're here to learn and you're wasting this opportunity. Why don't you just take out more loans?" Coming from a person that was being fully supported by her rich parents. It was miserable, but I've had other positive volunteer experiences too. I'm not saying all places are like that but it's best to be up front about working two jobs and having to split your time and see if that's going to be a problem for them.


We had volunteers at both my old and current job, and no one would have even thought of berating someone like that. I think you just worked for some serious assholes. Really, that is legit reprehensible.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
dunkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am very, very wary of working and volunteering unless both your employers are very understanding. I had a volunteer job a few months ago and they wanted me to take up to two weeks off of work at my paying job to go watch a trial out of town. I was seriously worried about paying my bills at that point, didn't have a permanent job lined up or any interviews on the horizon and couldn't afford the travel expenses or time off. When I told them I couldn't go, they freaked out and guilt tripped me, told me I didn't value my legal career enough, told everyone they could find that I was choosing my crappy part time job over going to watch a trial and gain experience (when I would have absolutely loved to go and was crushed that I couldn't make it work). It was a really demoralizing experience and I've been afraid to ever ask them for a reference. So just be wary that even though you're volunteering, a lot of employers won't be understanding if you need time off for your second job.


What a horrible place. FWIW, my experience was completely different. I volunteered for a PI organization while working my non-law related job, and both places were cool with it. The PI place knew that volunteers realistically had to work unless they/their parents were independently wealthy in my pricey California city. The non-law related place knew I volunteered, though I had to take a few weeks off from volunteering in the beginning. Although I ended up working 6-7 days a week, it ended up working out.


Yeah, the attorneys paraded around our office and told all the other volunteers "hey, anon decided she wants to go 'brew coffee' (not actually working at a coffee shop so substitute another menial task here, just afraid of outing myself) instead of going to a trial HAHAHA!!!" One of the other volunteers said "well I understand we all need money, but that's such a poor use of your time, you're here to learn and you're wasting this opportunity. Why don't you just take out more loans?" Coming from a person that was being fully supported by her rich parents. It was miserable, but I've had other positive volunteer experiences too. I'm not saying all places are like that but it's best to be up front about working two jobs and having to split your time and see if that's going to be a problem for them.


You shouldn't give two fucks about a place that doesn't pay you a salary.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JohannDeMann » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:16 am

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
dunkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am very, very wary of working and volunteering unless both your employers are very understanding. I had a volunteer job a few months ago and they wanted me to take up to two weeks off of work at my paying job to go watch a trial out of town. I was seriously worried about paying my bills at that point, didn't have a permanent job lined up or any interviews on the horizon and couldn't afford the travel expenses or time off. When I told them I couldn't go, they freaked out and guilt tripped me, told me I didn't value my legal career enough, told everyone they could find that I was choosing my crappy part time job over going to watch a trial and gain experience (when I would have absolutely loved to go and was crushed that I couldn't make it work). It was a really demoralizing experience and I've been afraid to ever ask them for a reference. So just be wary that even though you're volunteering, a lot of employers won't be understanding if you need time off for your second job.


What a horrible place. FWIW, my experience was completely different. I volunteered for a PI organization while working my non-law related job, and both places were cool with it. The PI place knew that volunteers realistically had to work unless they/their parents were independently wealthy in my pricey California city. The non-law related place knew I volunteered, though I had to take a few weeks off from volunteering in the beginning. Although I ended up working 6-7 days a week, it ended up working out.


Yeah, the attorneys paraded around our office and told all the other volunteers "hey, anon decided she wants to go 'brew coffee' (not actually working at a coffee shop so substitute another menial task here, just afraid of outing myself) instead of going to a trial HAHAHA!!!" One of the other volunteers said "well I understand we all need money, but that's such a poor use of your time, you're here to learn and you're wasting this opportunity. Why don't you just take out more loans?" Coming from a person that was being fully supported by her rich parents. It was miserable, but I've had other positive volunteer experiences too. I'm not saying all places are like that but it's best to be up front about working two jobs and having to split your time and see if that's going to be a problem for them.


You shouldn't give two fucks about a place that doesn't pay you a salary.


Well common decent human nature makes decent people give a fuck about anyone who they interact with. Fuck man someone should have punched you in the face in 3rd grade for this bullshit. You are intolerable.

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presh
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby presh » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:26 am

sparty99 wrote:
You shouldn't give two fucks about a place that doesn't pay you a salary.


Obviously someone looking for a job is going to give a fuck about a place that could potentially serve as a reference or provide connections to get them a permanent position. That's not rocket science. Why are you being such a dick ITT?

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hous
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hous » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:37 am

I feel like everyone is too harsh on Sparty99, perhaps because of his past behavior? He may not be elegant with his words, but he just offers his opinions like everyone else.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JohannDeMann » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:52 am

hous wrote:I feel like everyone is too harsh on Sparty99, perhaps because of his past behavior? He may not be elegant with his words, but he just offers his opinions like everyone else.


No justification needed. Sparty: 1) doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about; 2) sucks at conveying his point; and 3) is an asshole. People are not harsh enough on him. The appropriate amount of harshness would be a permaban from this thread.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:02 pm

I kin of half agree with sparty... At least in the sense that their douchebaggery shouldn't be allowed to bother you anymore. They didn't pay you, then fuck it and move on.

I understand why it bothered anon at the time though.




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