The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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BEAST_mode
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BEAST_mode » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:30 pm

Longtime lurker, first time poster. I have an interview at a well respected regional boutique in the coming weeks. They wanted someone junior, but still with a few years experience. I applied for the hell of it with no expectations and for some reason they decided to bring me in. My coursework/externships are entirely tied to the firm's practice area and I have airtight ties to the region, but I have no law firm experience whatsoever (externship experience is fed gov and in house). I know they will almost certainly ask about it. Is a self deprecating "it's not for lack of trying" ever okay? If not, what is the best approach to this question?

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:57 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Kronk wrote:
Jessuf wrote:
Kronk wrote:Are there solid non-criminal options for people that do appellate work for a state AG, public defender, or prosecutor? Or do those people have to stay with criminal law pretty much?

Maybe 1983 claims? I can also picture moving to family law/DV work or advocacy/policy stuff.


Yeah. It sucks to get wedged into one area of law, but I guess eventually that's how most people end up unless you work Gen Lit at a firm.

Specialization is the name of the game these days

General lit is still a thing but if you're not gonna be as attractive as a lateral


Though I do think people aren't as limited in exit options as they think. I've seen civil rights lawyers go to insurance defense, prosecutors go to plaintiffs, family go into bankruptcy, and crim def go into family. It's a lot about how you sell your previous experience.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:59 pm

BEAST_mode wrote:Longtime lurker, first time poster. I have an interview at a well respected regional boutique in the coming weeks. They wanted someone junior, but still with a few years experience. I applied for the hell of it with no expectations and for some reason they decided to bring me in. My coursework/externships are entirely tied to the firm's practice area and I have airtight ties to the region, but I have no law firm experience whatsoever (externship experience is fed gov and in house). I know they will almost certainly ask about it. Is a self deprecating "it's not for lack of trying" ever okay? If not, what is the best approach to this question?


Just play up your willingness and ability to learn quickly, and back it up with examples from your internships. I would think they'll probably ask you about familiarity/comfort with billable hours.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:02 pm

BEAST_mode wrote:Longtime lurker, first time poster. I have an interview at a well respected regional boutique in the coming weeks. They wanted someone junior, but still with a few years experience. I applied for the hell of it with no expectations and for some reason they decided to bring me in. My coursework/externships are entirely tied to the firm's practice area and I have airtight ties to the region, but I have no law firm experience whatsoever (externship experience is fed gov and in house). I know they will almost certainly ask about it. Is a self deprecating "it's not for lack of trying" ever okay? If not, what is the best approach to this question?


How about a simple "I want this area of law, and these were the first externships I could get. I would've liked a firm, but I didn't want to turn down perfectly good learning opportunities that were already offered to me."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:38 pm

NYSprague wrote:
spleenworship wrote:I don't know about a consultant, i always feel like those people might be shady. But I've never dealt with them and don't know anyone who has, so I could be way off base. In any case good luck with your interview. They wouldn't interview you if they weren't interested. Focus on good things about you that aren't grade related!

I think there was a Columbia grad in this thread who paid a consultant and got nothing after spending money. I would look for results and get references you can call and talk to before spending a dime. You should get a free initial consultation.


Thanks, I'll ask for references.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:50 pm

On another note, after a thank you follow up email to the lady who interviewed me I got a "you'd be a real asset, I think my boss will call you next week" response.

I'm going to take that as a strong maybe.

If I get an offer next week I'm probably going to break down in tears while screaming like a madman. Soooo much repressed emotion goin on in my head.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kronk » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:51 pm

And you guys haven't even graduated yet.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:04 pm

Kronk wrote:And you guys haven't even graduated yet.


I pray to God I'm never in those shoes. I feel for you guys something fierce. If I'm this stressed now I can't even imagine how bad it must be on the other side I the bar.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Yobot » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
BEAST_mode wrote:I would think they'll probably ask you about familiarity/comfort with billable hours.


Yeah, I imagine that would be what they ask as the big issue in terms of having not worked in a firm.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:45 pm

BEAST_mode wrote:Longtime lurker, first time poster. I have an interview at a well respected regional boutique in the coming weeks. They wanted someone junior, but still with a few years experience. I applied for the hell of it with no expectations and for some reason they decided to bring me in. My coursework/externships are entirely tied to the firm's practice area and I have airtight ties to the region, but I have no law firm experience whatsoever (externship experience is fed gov and in house). I know they will almost certainly ask about it. Is a self deprecating "it's not for lack of trying" ever okay? If not, what is the best approach to this question?


FWIW, I got beat out of two spots at my ideal firm in my ideal city doing litigation even though I had two summers at firms and the two that got the jobs had never worked at a firm. A lot of times firms don't care what you did during summers, as long as you demonstrate the ability to learn how to do things their way.

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Kronk
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kronk » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:42 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Kronk wrote:And you guys haven't even graduated yet.


I pray to God I'm never in those shoes. I feel for you guys something fierce. If I'm this stressed now I can't even imagine how bad it must be on the other side I the bar.


It isn't so bad tbh. I didn't even apply to any jobs prior to graduation because no one would accept apps for the jobs around here without bar passage. I am surprised so many PD offices do in NM.

A little different here though because all the PD jobs are through one central office and you can't choose any particular office. They do pre bar hiring there if you don't mind where you are placed. Other than that, all the local gov offices require you to have already passed and most of the prosecution offices do too. All the nonprofits.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:11 pm

Kronk wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
Kronk wrote:And you guys haven't even graduated yet.


I pray to God I'm never in those shoes. I feel for you guys something fierce. If I'm this stressed now I can't even imagine how bad it must be on the other side I the bar.


It isn't so bad tbh. I didn't even apply to any jobs prior to graduation because no one would accept apps for the jobs around here without bar passage. I am surprised so many PD offices do in NM.

A little different here though because all the PD jobs are through one central office and you can't choose any particular office. They do pre bar hiring there if you don't mind where you are placed. Other than that, all the local gov offices require you to have already passed and most of the prosecution offices do too. All the nonprofits.



This is the first year NM did pre-bar PD apps.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kronk » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:31 pm

Sweet year to be applying lol. That's awesome.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:36 pm

Kronk wrote:Sweet year to be applying lol. That's awesome.


Would've been if they hadn't turned me down lol.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:45 pm

If I went solo and did only CJA work, could that maybe be PLSF or LRAP eligible, or would I have to be employed by gov or a 501(c)3?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:18 pm

Jessuf wrote:Does the BYU job bank never update? It seems like all of the job postings have apps due in February.


Michigan submits a new one every 2 weeks on Friday. It's really sad that I know that.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JohannDeMann » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:12 pm

Jessuf wrote:If I went solo and did only CJA work, could that maybe be PLSF or LRAP eligible, or would I have to be employed by gov or a 501(c)3?


Has to be gov or 501(c)(3). "Qualifying employment is any employment with a federal, state, or local government agency, entity, or organization or a not-for-profit organization that has been designated as tax-exempt by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC)."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JohannDeMann » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:21 pm

BEAST_mode wrote:Longtime lurker, first time poster. I have an interview at a well respected regional boutique in the coming weeks. They wanted someone junior, but still with a few years experience. I applied for the hell of it with no expectations and for some reason they decided to bring me in. My coursework/externships are entirely tied to the firm's practice area and I have airtight ties to the region, but I have no law firm experience whatsoever (externship experience is fed gov and in house). I know they will almost certainly ask about it. Is a self deprecating "it's not for lack of trying" ever okay? If not, what is the best approach to this question?


Your story has to be compelling and make you look like this job you are interviewing for is what has been the end game you wanted the entire time even while working the externships. That's all the employer cares about. I'd say something like:

I've known since my (1L? 2L? college? ) year, I wanted to work in (name field) at a LAW FIRM. I knew to be a competitive candidate at (name firm) I needed x, y, and z skills. The first internship gave me an opportunity to learn x skill and at my 2nd internship I learned y skill doing this and this. Both were great opportunities to learn the skills I needed to be a competitive candidate at this firm.

E: Do not say or hint that you wanted to work in a law firm while in law school but couldn't find firm work. I wouldn't at least.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:53 am

I have essentially the same issue, where I worked both 1L and 2L is related but not the same, in a field where they really think "nothing's the same."

I played it essentially how JohannDeMann suggests- They asked "if you wanted to work X, why did you do Y? Why aren't you just applying at Y?"

The truth is, I DID apply at X, you people didn't even INTERVIEW me during LS, and I DID apply for a post-grad job at Y, and they didn't interview me either. Now, inexplicably, X is interviewing me for a post-grad job.
I did not SAY any of that, I gave an answer about how Y was such a great experience and gave me the opportunity to get ABC skills and 123 experience, which are relevant here at X because BLAH.

I got the callback, which is next week. So I'm crossing my fingers and I definitely agree this is the way to go. (Also, PLEASE PLEASE I want out of the Vale.)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:15 am

Good luck anon.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:31 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
Jessuf wrote:If I went solo and did only CJA work, could that maybe be PLSF or LRAP eligible, or would I have to be employed by gov or a 501(c)3?


Has to be gov or 501(c)(3). "Qualifying employment is any employment with a federal, state, or local government agency, entity, or organization or a not-for-profit organization that has been designated as tax-exempt by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC)."


If you go solo just set up a non-profit. It's not like you can't still make money working for your own non-profit.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hungryjumps » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:41 am

Hi everyone. First time poster in this thread.

Here's my situation: Ivy undergrad, T2 law school (went b/c of full ride), immediately went to T1 tax LLM. Graduated law school cum laude with 3.6, currently coasting with a 3.8 on the LLM. Pre-law school work experience was basically the boring old Wall Street investment banking schtick (meh... made good $, but so boring). During 1L and 2L summers I worked for a solo practitioner b/c it was the best offer I got that paid a decent $25/hr.

Anyway, I just got called into an interview with a BigLaw firm. I am taking a class with the managing partner of this BigLaw firm's regional office. We grabbed lunch and he asked for my resume. I sent it to him, and a few weeks later the firm's recruiter emails me asking for transcripts. I sent them along and immediately was asked to schedule an interview with the office's other co-managing partner. The partner I will be interviewing with for "30 - 45 minutes" runs the office's corporate practice, which is what the firm is known for in this market.

I'm wondering if anyone can give me some insight into this situation (non-OCI, interview with one top level partner). I'm pretty excited but nervous at the same time. I've never done a BigLaw interview before so any tips would be wonderful and greatly appreciated.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:18 am

hungryjumps wrote:Hi everyone. First time poster in this thread.

Here's my situation: Ivy undergrad, T2 law school (went b/c of full ride), immediately went to T1 tax LLM. Graduated law school cum laude with 3.6, currently coasting with a 3.8 on the LLM. Pre-law school work experience was basically the boring old Wall Street investment banking schtick (meh... made good $, but so boring). During 1L and 2L summers I worked for a solo practitioner b/c it was the best offer I got that paid a decent $25/hr.

Anyway, I just got called into an interview with a BigLaw firm. I am taking a class with the managing partner of this BigLaw firm's regional office. We grabbed lunch and he asked for my resume. I sent it to him, and a few weeks later the firm's recruiter emails me asking for transcripts. I sent them along and immediately was asked to schedule an interview with the office's other co-managing partner. The partner I will be interviewing with for "30 - 45 minutes" runs the office's corporate practice, which is what the firm is known for in this market.

I'm wondering if anyone can give me some insight into this situation (non-OCI, interview with one top level partner). I'm pretty excited but nervous at the same time. I've never done a BigLaw interview before so any tips would be wonderful and greatly appreciated.


it'll mostly be a conversation. They'll ask where you are from, why you decided to go to law school, why you chose the T2. What were your favorite classes, what were your least favorite. Why you want to work in bigLaw. Do you want to do transactional or litigation? Where do you want to be in 5-10 years? You should really sell your I-Banking experience and say you enjoyed working with businesses. Your work in ibanking will translate well in transaction work, doing the deal side. But if you don't want to do that, then you can also say since you have transactional work, you would also be open to litigation. They will also want to know why you got a LLM.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hungryjumps » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:25 am

sparty99 wrote: it'll mostly be a conversation. They'll ask where you are from, why you decided to go to law school, why you chose the T2. What were your favorite classes, what were your least favorite. Why you want to work in bigLaw. Do you want to do transactional or litigation? Where do you want to be in 5-10 years? You should really sell your I-Banking experience and say you enjoyed working with businesses. Your work in ibanking will translate well in transaction work, doing the deal side. But if you don't want to do that, then you can also say since you have transactional work, you would also be open to litigation. They will also want to know why you got a LLM.


Thank you so much! Yes, I'm set on transactional work, and the tax LLM is something I pursued to (1) open up more doors, like this one; and (2) further my study of corporate tax, which I am genuinely interested in. I should be able to field the basic background questions fairly well. I am particularly nervous that the first interview is with the office's managing partner, and I don''t know if that is something that happens in OCI. Thank you again, I appreciate it!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Assumpsit » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:14 pm

Am I being too cynical / quick to jump the law job ship ? I go to a T30, not good grades, good amount of law school work (1L,2L, and entire 3L year) and some pre law school with local government - I am starting to look for local/state government jobs that interest me.

Compare this to the rest of my class who by and large don't have jobs unless they were LR or their parents got them a job - they are just kind of wallowing in misery because right now there is nothing available. I know some stuff opens up this summer and around bar/passage time - but I don't feel like sitting here hoping something will materialize is a good plan. I increasingly think that by looking for alternative jobs that I will be passing up a very mediocre legal job field, especially with my grades.




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