The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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jessuf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:11 pm

Honestly I'd prob rather abandon law than live in a small town in a flyover state living off a measly stipend with no friends or family nearby and no promise of ft employment. I'm not a Midwest is best kinda gal. I think gulc pays the money regardless of whether you have a job or not, so at least I have $1k to look forward to while I mass mail in my pjs at my mom's.

dead head
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dead head » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:06 pm

Jessuf wrote:Honestly I'd prob rather abandon law than live in a small town in a flyover state living off a measly stipend with no friends or family nearby and no promise of ft employment. I'm not a Midwest is best kinda gal. I think gulc pays the money regardless of whether you have a job or not, so at least I have $1k to look forward to while I mass mail in my pjs at my mom's.

Nope. It's $1,000 per month for 25+ hours/week at a qualifying public interest employer.

Note that if you put in 35+ hours per week (and are thus counted as employed full time under the ABA statistics), this is less than federal minimum wage.

For comparison, GW pays $15 per hour for up to 35 hours per week, and I don't think they have a public interest requirement. Also by way of comparison, student door-checkers get $16.90 at Georgetown.

uno, dos, tres
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby uno, dos, tres » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:18 pm

Hey y'all, long-time lurker here and in other places on the board. I recently left the Vale! I don't want to give too many specifics on the job; will say it's fed gov't. Instead I'll focus on some details of my story with an eye to advice for future Vale'ers. I transferred from t30 to t6 and struck out at OCI. Here's my takeaway, mostly for future Vale-ers:

1. As soon as I knew I had struck out I changed all the courses I had registered for to establish an interest in a specific area. I did a clinic and consist course work in that area for the next 2 years. You might say, I don't know what I'm interested in. I would seriously advise you just to chose something. Now is not really the time for self-exploration. Neway, I landed a gov't internship 2L summer in the same area (but knew that I had no shot at getting hired at that agency). I am actually glad I did this and didn't get hired at a midlaw/smalllaw shop, though I applied for (and got dinged from) a lot. This will set you up for state/fed gov't jobs in that area.

2. But if you don't get an agency gig in that area, a semi-secret job is clerking for a state court of general jurisdiction judge. This was my backup plan. These are pretty easy to get. If you think you could do litigation at all, and don't have any other options, talk to professors (esp. clinical professors) and OCS about their contacts with the local judiciary. Volunteer with PD or DA, too, 3L year. These positions are decent bc you'll be practicing; you'll get contacts; you'll qualify for PSLF; and there OK to good exits like public defender or state's attorney. I know they are sort of looked down on, but suck it up; at least you'll be practicing. IMO this is a much, much better option than volunteering for a nonprofit and getting your school's equivalent to bridge funding.

3. The law school routine is good. It keeps you focused and sane-ish. But keep your eye on the prize. I had friends in the same situation as me who threw themselves into classes, etc. Work hard---DON"T shit the bed re: grades---but don't get complacent.

4. Don't give up, man. Things got really dark for me; I saw posts where valers were talking about kill/self. C'mon--it's corny, but--believe in yourself. When you finally get what you're striving for, will be that much sweeter.

GOOD LUCK!!

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:33 pm

Congrats to you uno

uno, dos, tres
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby uno, dos, tres » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:39 pm

Thank you! I owe you and others one for this thread. That being said, I think sometimes better to shut off TLS and focus on your own life. That might sound paradoxical, but a support group can turn into a crutch, sometimes? I'd find myself reading this thread way too much at times looking for stories that paralleled my own, rather than being proactive. Just a thought.

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Lawst
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lawst » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:54 pm

Jessuf wrote:Honestly I'd prob rather abandon law than live in a small town in a flyover state living off a measly stipend with no friends or family nearby and no promise of ft employment. I'm not a Midwest is best kinda gal. I think gulc pays the money regardless of whether you have a job or not, so at least I have $1k to look forward to while I mass mail in my pjs at my mom's.


I know what you mean - I really have no desire to leave the East Coast. It's more than $1K a month, but considering that I need to need to stay in a city for my own sanity, it won't go very far. If I can get a decent volunteer position that will get me more experience, I feel a little better about my odds of getting a foot in the door to get a permanent job. I know that I'll have to live with roommates and very cheaply, and I'm not looking forward to the struggle.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:09 pm

I find coast people's disdain for the rest of the country amusing. Like, millions of people live out there and have perfectly good lives playing the same video games, watching the same movies, participating in the same hobbies, etc. that 90+% of East and West Coasters do.

Whatever you guys wanna do, I guess, but just throwing out there that apart from having to deal with more conservatives per capita, it really isn't that different and it would offer a lot more opportunities for jobs.

uno, dos, tres
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby uno, dos, tres » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:34 pm

spleenworship wrote: Whatever you guys wanna do, I guess, but just throwing out there that apart from having to deal with more conservatives per capita, it really isn't that different and it would offer a lot more opportunities for jobs.


Yup. Now is not the time to be choosy.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:28 pm

spleenworship wrote:I find coast people's disdain for the rest of the country amusing. Like, millions of people live out there and have perfectly good lives playing the same video games, watching the same movies, participating in the same hobbies, etc. that 90+% of East and West Coasters do.

Whatever you guys wanna do, I guess, but just throwing out there that apart from having to deal with more conservatives per capita, it really isn't that different and it would offer a lot more opportunities for jobs.


It's a bit rough to move there when you don't know anyone and you're not even making enough money to go have a drink at a bar and try make some friends.

Jessuf, does GULC allow you to use the fellowship to supplement an income? There are some fellowships that will let you get partially paid by an organization and outside funding. For instance, you could get 1k a month from GULC and convince a place to give you another 1k a month, which would be cheaper for them than hiring someone outright. Otherwise, there are a few private foundations that will add on to school funding. They are kind of tough to find but if you check with the bar association in where you are headed, they may have some options.

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Lawst
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lawst » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:27 am

spleenworship wrote:I find coast people's disdain for the rest of the country amusing. Like, millions of people live out there and have perfectly good lives playing the same video games, watching the same movies, participating in the same hobbies, etc. that 90+% of East and West Coasters do.

Whatever you guys wanna do, I guess, but just throwing out there that apart from having to deal with more conservatives per capita, it really isn't that different and it would offer a lot more opportunities for jobs.


Yes and no. I grew up in the Midwest but have lived on the East Coast for over a decade, and for me the difference in my quality of life is massive, but based of course on what I consider important factors for quality of life, such as being able to get around easily without a car, as just one example. I get what you mean by the knee-jerk reaction of rejecting the rest of the country, but in some cases it comes down to personal preference.

(And yes, I know, Chicago, but we're talking about places with lower cost of living as the "rest of the country," I assume.)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

After 9 months of unanswered emails, skinny envelopes, and hung up phone calls, I think I may be close to leaving the vale. Randomly overheard a biglaw partner say to a professor that his group needed help. I hung around to walk with him to his vehicle - later emailed asking if he was serious or if that was frustrated facetiousness speaking. My email went unanswered for a few days - evidently he started asking former professors about me. They vouched, and fast forward 8 days, I've now had 2 partner lunch screens and a full half-day callback.

It feels promising, though my paranoia is choking. They wouldn't bother with this much time and effort if (1) there wasn't a position, and (2) I wasn't ticking the right boxes for qualification, right? I even had to fill out a lengthy conflicts of interest disclosure form.

Could it be? Could I soon stop putting everything on ever-more-frightening credit cards? Any advice for continuing to stay in front of them now that it's largely out of my hands?

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:03 pm

I don't have advice, but good luck.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby northwood » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:23 pm

to the poster above... its a full blown legit interview. give it your best shot, do your due diligence and be prepared. Have confidence in yourself, but don't put too much pressure on yourself. Since you are an anonymous poster. I don't know you, but if you had a professor who vouched for you, that is a huge feather in your cap- and a key ally on your side.

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El Pollito
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby El Pollito » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:25 pm

Damn, good luck anon.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby MG95 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:31 pm

.
Last edited by MG95 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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northwood
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby northwood » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:31 pm

Anon,
Only focus on things you can control, which is your performance in the interview. The rest is out of your control, so there is nothing you can do about it, and worrying about it will only make things worse. Don't bug them too much, or you may annoy yourself out of the running. It sounds like the interview is coming up relatively soon. Make sure at the end you ask them for a timeline as to how they will proceed, if they don't tell you, and adhere to that information( while they know you don't have a job with them, you don't want to come off as desperate). Obviously something is going your way, since you got the interview, and it seems as though the application pool is relatively small. Be truthful, concise, and crisp with your answers, and don't show them that you are frazzled if you do become frazzled. Best of luck to you!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dreakol » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:37 pm

spleenworship wrote:I find coast people's disdain for the rest of the country amusing. Like, millions of people live out there and have perfectly good lives playing the same video games, watching the same movies, participating in the same hobbies, etc. that 90+% of East and West Coasters do.

Whatever you guys wanna do, I guess, but just throwing out there that apart from having to deal with more conservatives per capita, it really isn't that different and it would offer a lot more opportunities for jobs.


but but how will you ever go to opera

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:39 pm

dreakol wrote:
spleenworship wrote:I find coast people's disdain for the rest of the country amusing. Like, millions of people live out there and have perfectly good lives playing the same video games, watching the same movies, participating in the same hobbies, etc. that 90+% of East and West Coasters do.

Whatever you guys wanna do, I guess, but just throwing out there that apart from having to deal with more conservatives per capita, it really isn't that different and it would offer a lot more opportunities for jobs.


but but how will you ever go to opera

Ha, spleen's state has an incredibly well-regarded opera company.

jtx86
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jtx86 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:46 pm

Hey all,

So I quit my job making $17/hr because my boss was crazy. Literally, crazy. I'm a recent law school graduate (I graduated in December, I could still say recent, right?) struggling to find work. Most employers require bar admission. Ergo, I'm not even eligible to apply to most legal jobs.

My question is: should I take an unpaid intern position at a law firm that might[i][/i] lead to a full-time offer OR accept a temp legal position making $12/hr.

If I take the first option, I will probably have to take out a private loan to pay rent. If I take the second option, I won't have to take out a loan.

Thanks for listening.

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Lawst
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lawst » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:27 pm

jtx86 wrote:Hey all,

So I quit my job making $17/hr because my boss was crazy. Literally, crazy. I'm a recent law school graduate (I graduated in December, I could still say recent, right?) struggling to find work. Most employers require bar admission. Ergo, I'm not even eligible to apply to most legal jobs.

My question is: should I take an unpaid intern position at a law firm that might[i][/i] lead to a full-time offer OR accept a temp legal position making $12/hr.

If I take the first option, I will probably have to take out a private loan to pay rent. If I take the second option, I won't have to take out a loan.

Thanks for listening.


I vote for the temp option so that you don't have to take out a loan. The unpaid internship would make sense only if you had some sort of fellowship funding or no other choice at all. Or, would you have the option of splitting the week, say three days temping and two interning?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:22 pm

I'm seriously about to lose it. Just got a call from a partner (yep on a Sunday) telling me how amazing my resume was and how he wished I had applied sooner...because he already gave the job to someone else. But my resume sounded like a perfect fit for his firm, better than the guy he hired, and he will call me as soon as something else opens up. But it's a small firm and that may not happen. WHY DO YOU TORTURE ME??? You do realize that saying "hey just wanted to call and say you were SOOOOO CLOSE but because you didn't apply soon enough, you didn't get the job. So yep you fucked up now go hate yourself for a few days :D" is worse than a cold rejection letter right?

I just screwed myself for a job because I didn't jump on the listing fast enough. Brb going to drink all the things.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm seriously about to lose it. Just got a call from a partner (yep on a Sunday) telling me how amazing my resume was and how he wished I had applied sooner...because he already gave the job to someone else. But my resume sounded like a perfect fit for his firm, better than the guy he hired, and he will call me as soon as something else opens up. But it's a small firm and that may not happen. WHY DO YOU TORTURE ME??? You do realize that saying "hey just wanted to call and say you were SOOOOO CLOSE but because you didn't apply soon enough, you didn't get the job. So yep you fucked up now go hate yourself for a few days :D" is worse than a cold rejection letter right?

I just screwed myself for a job because I didn't jump on the listing fast enough. Brb going to drink all the things.


You got noticed. Chin up!

dead head
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dead head » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:04 pm

jtx86 wrote:My question is: should I take an unpaid intern position at a law firm that might[i][/i] lead to a full-time offer OR accept a temp legal position making $12/hr.

I don't believe law firms can legally offer unpaid internships.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:17 pm

d
Last edited by rad lulz on Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:34 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
dreakol wrote:
spleenworship wrote:I find coast people's disdain for the rest of the country amusing. Like, millions of people live out there and have perfectly good lives playing the same video games, watching the same movies, participating in the same hobbies, etc. that 90+% of East and West Coasters do.

Whatever you guys wanna do, I guess, but just throwing out there that apart from having to deal with more conservatives per capita, it really isn't that different and it would offer a lot more opportunities for jobs.


but but how will you ever go to opera

Ha, spleen's state has an incredibly well-regarded opera company.


Actually... We do...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Opera
Last edited by spleenworship on Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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