The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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lbg0125
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lbg0125 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I see a lot of people in the Vale who were decent performers (i.e., top third with law review, etc.) at middling schools (like T2s). But is anyone else in here (besides me) in the opposite situation? I went to a lower T14 but my grades were in the gutter (ETA: My GPA is still above 3.0, but not by a lot) and I didn't do a journal or moot court or really anything else of note. My school didn't publish ranks but I'm almost certainly in the bottom quarter of my class. Also, even though my school has a very good reputation, it was in a different part of the country from where I went to school want to practice (edit because I wrote this all groggy at 2 AM, oops). If I could do it again, I would have gone to the T25 state school, or taken another year or two off before LS to at least wind up at a different lower T14 that is in my part of the country.

Needless to say, I've also been in the vale since graduating although I currently have decent odds of starting a doc review job soon.

My question isn't really what do I do from here, but instead I'm mostly wondering what tends to happen to people who come out of T14s in the bottom quarter and if anyone else ITT is in the same boat.


I went to a T10, probably bottom 1/3 or bottom 40% ish (school doesn't rank) and as I mentioned above, I had a one year state trial clerkship after graduating in 2012. Now I've been unemployed since August. Anecdotally, I know a number of people from my school who had to work in fellowship positions/unpaid positions for at least a year before landing something.

ETA: I am not sure how the class of 2013 is faring, as I didn't have many friends in the years below me.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:08 pm

Job posting at a firm that I went to THREE interviews with but didn't get the job went up today. They want 1–4 years experience, but still hurts the feels.

I did follow up to ask if I can be considered for this posting though.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:11 pm

chrisbru wrote:Job posting at a firm that I went to THREE interviews with but didn't get the job went up today. They want 1–4 years experience, but still hurts the feels.

I did follow up to ask if I can be considered for this posting though.


That was how I found out I was rejected from a firm, though the posting was for a completely different candidate, so no idea why they asked me to come in the first place. What was annoying that they only told me I was rejected after I asked plus resume drop through that posting. It seems firms and employers in general are getting worse about even telling people their status.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Job posting at a firm that I went to THREE interviews with but didn't get the job went up today. They want 1–4 years experience, but still hurts the feels.

I did follow up to ask if I can be considered for this posting though.


That was how I found out I was rejected from a firm, though the posting was for a completely different candidate, so no idea why they asked me to come in the first place. What was annoying that they only told me I was rejected after I asked plus resume drop through that posting. It seems firms and employers in general are getting worse about even telling people their status.


Well mine told me from the beginning that I was one of three candidates being brought in for a callback for two positions. And she called me personally when I wasn't selected to tell me she really wanted me to get it but I was just beat out by a different candidate (talk about awkward convo...) So not all firms are that bad at keeping you posted.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Job posting at a firm that I went to THREE interviews with but didn't get the job went up today. They want 1–4 years experience, but still hurts the feels.

I did follow up to ask if I can be considered for this posting though.


That was how I found out I was rejected from a firm, though the posting was for a completely different candidate, so no idea why they asked me to come in the first place. What was annoying that they only told me I was rejected after I asked plus resume drop through that posting. It seems firms and employers in general are getting worse about even telling people their status.


We're all just meat in a market to them. I'm so jealous of this years 1Ls. Only like 33,000 of them competing for the same 25,000 jobs. I should've held off applying.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:05 pm

chrisbru wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Job posting at a firm that I went to THREE interviews with but didn't get the job went up today. They want 1–4 years experience, but still hurts the feels.

I did follow up to ask if I can be considered for this posting though.


That was how I found out I was rejected from a firm, though the posting was for a completely different candidate, so no idea why they asked me to come in the first place. What was annoying that they only told me I was rejected after I asked plus resume drop through that posting. It seems firms and employers in general are getting worse about even telling people their status.


Well mine told me from the beginning that I was one of three candidates being brought in for a callback for two positions. And she called me personally when I wasn't selected to tell me she really wanted me to get it but I was just beat out by a different candidate (talk about awkward convo...) So not all firms are that bad at keeping you posted.


That's better than most. While I have no sympathy for recruiting since this is what they signed up for, it seems like they just get so many applications that they don't care. In my law school career I've dealt with one genuinely good recruiter and that was at a consulting firm. The rest have been useless.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:These fellowships are only meant for a year, and it sounds like schools are starting to cut down on the number of fellowships they are giving out. I'm also past the 9/10 month marker for employment stat purposes.

At least Columbia actually gives you a liveable amount for a longer time. Georgetown gives you $1000 per month for a maximum of 6 months.

Anonymous User wrote:My mental health is technically taken care of. I have a therapist plus medicine plus group. But I feel very defeated w/ the constant rejection letters and lack of anything definite for when my fellowship ends. Knowing people care for me has made me reevaluate suicide, but I still have fantasies about it, especially during these dry spells where haven't had any interviews in a while and have nothing lined up and an unsupportive work environment.
I think the fact that you're open about having these thoughts is a good thing, as it suggests you do want help, and I wish you well.

On the other hand, it's shocking how little law schools seem to actually care about depression and suicide. When 40% of law students are likely to be depressed at some point during their law-school career, you would think that more resources would be available.

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legalese_retard
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby legalese_retard » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:38 am

What frustrates me is when I look at the profiles of the younger associates on a firm's website and see that I have the same, if not better qualifications (at least on paper), but still get a rejection letter without even an interview. I know there is more to being a successful than just paper credentials, but it would be nice to at least get an interview.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:On the other hand, it's shocking how little law schools seem to actually care about depression and suicide. When 40% of law students are likely to be depressed at some point during their law-school career, you would think that more resources would be available.


Well the legal profession does stigmatize treating depression way more than any other. The fact some states require you to disclose it for the bar sucks too.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:29 pm

Is 12 days too soon to follow up on an unresponded-to e-mail to a networking connection that said he was looking to hire you? I don't want to internet stalk...the dude is an important man and is busy, etc. But also, he's the one that told me to keep in touch.

hiima3L
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is 12 days too soon to follow up on an unresponded-to e-mail to a networking connection that said he was looking to hire you? I don't want to internet stalk...the dude is an important man and is busy, etc. But also, he's the one that told me to keep in touch.


If he explicitly said to keep in touch, that seems fine to me.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:08 pm

if you guys were offered a state trial court clerkship in a state you don't want to practice tomorrow, would you take it, or would you continue your search?

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:10 pm

How close is the clerking state to your state? Are we talking something more like NYC-Newark or more like Boston-Phoenix?

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:45 pm

bordering state, but it's a serious commute and I don't want to move. i also don't want to take the bar in state state, and i don't want to practice in that state.

furthermore, as I have applied primarily to prosecution jobs in my own state, I am not far enough in the process to have heard anything (but I am optimistic given my resume, network, and experience). that being said, I can't decide whether it is irresponsible to straight blow off an offer at this point when I have nothing else solid at the moment.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:07 pm

It may be worth it to do it, if it's a neighboring state. Is the commute like NYC-Newark or Houston-Oklahoma City?

I thought being barred didn't matter for clerking. Does it in this case? Would your judge require you to take clerking state's bar? Or could you just do home state's bar? Also, if there's a chance of being double barred, that may make you more attractive post clerkship. Can you do both bars the same time (eg NY/MA, PA/NJ, NY/NJ, every UBE state), or is that impossible because the exam dates are exactly the same?

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:23 pm

it doesn't. it's really about the concept of taking a fairly unattractive option (and an option that will leave me jobless in one year) before hearing from any of my multiple attractive options, just for the feeling that comes from having a job at this point....and to avoid the risk of not having one in 6 months. i am utterly on the fence about what to do.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:30 pm

I get you on that, and I know nothing about clerkship hiring etiquette. Sorry I can't help ya.

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jessuf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:40 pm

You could always later reneg if you get a DA job in your state. I know this is seriously frowned on with judges, but it's your future and it doesn't sound like you'd ever practice before this judge.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:56 pm

Jessuf wrote:You could always later reneg if you get a DA job in your state. I know this is seriously frowned on with judges, but it's your future and it doesn't sound like you'd ever practice before this judge.


I would do this.

objctnyrhnr
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:32 am

I like where your heads are at, but that's sooo dick. I would really be screwing over them, as well as the person who was next in line. I don't think I could bring myself to do that

gfunk01
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gfunk01 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:08 am

objctnyrhnr wrote:I like where your heads are at, but that's sooo dick. I would really be screwing over them, as well as the person who was next in line. I don't think I could bring myself to do that


You wouldn't be screwing them that much since there is a line of people they can take to replace you, so I wouldn't feel sorry for them. And the person next in line will prolly be happy if anything that something opened up for them. You need to do what you feel is best for you. This isn't the market that people have the luxury of playing nice in anymore.

lbg0125
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lbg0125 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:44 am

I totally get feeling uncomfortable, but I would say that if it is in a state you most likely would not be practicing, I would consider reneging if something better came along. Unfortunately, we have to look out for ourselves in this environment - and I don't think you would risk much if any ill effect since its in an entirely different location. As has been mentioned, there is a ready and willing pool of people to compete for the position if you did take it but later decide differently.

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deadpanic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deadpanic » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:17 am

BarbellDreams wrote:
Jessuf wrote:You could always later reneg if you get a DA job in your state. I know this is seriously frowned on with judges, but it's your future and it doesn't sound like you'd ever practice before this judge.


I would do this.


Yeah, all of this.

Outside of some special circumstances and without an offer in hand, you pretty much can't count on being hired at a DA's office. Due to the budget constraints and competition, the hiring is really random. I would take this gig so you won't be unemployed for months and months to come.

Also, why can't you just take the bar in the state you want to practice in? I've had classmates clerk in other states doing this with no issues.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:08 pm

chrisbru wrote:So, I'm staying here, hope you guys don't mind. I had two really good interviews on Friday for non-attorney positions.

One was a risk and contracts manager position that really wants someone with a law degree. The position has a lot of autonomy, and really lets me create value for the company. I loved it, and would accept on the spot if the compensation package is fair. They seemed interested, and perked up when I said I could come in every Friday for the rest of the semester to train, and start right after Memorial Day weekend. They should let me know by the end of this week. I really hope I get this position.


Got an offer for this job at the end of my second interview this morning! Compensation package is lower than I want, but it is the kind of work I'd love to do and in the city I want to be in. Pretty stoked.

Also, no bar exam for me!

gfunk01
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gfunk01 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:17 pm

chrisbru wrote:
chrisbru wrote:So, I'm staying here, hope you guys don't mind. I had two really good interviews on Friday for non-attorney positions.

One was a risk and contracts manager position that really wants someone with a law degree. The position has a lot of autonomy, and really lets me create value for the company. I loved it, and would accept on the spot if the compensation package is fair. They seemed interested, and perked up when I said I could come in every Friday for the rest of the semester to train, and start right after Memorial Day weekend. They should let me know by the end of this week. I really hope I get this position.


Got an offer for this job at the end of my second interview this morning! Compensation package is lower than I want, but it is the kind of work I'd love to do and in the city I want to be in. Pretty stoked.

Also, no bar exam for me!


Congrats. I would still recommend taking the bar exam and getting admitted to get the stuff out of the way now rather than later when you will be even busier.




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