The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:58 am

bobtyme wrote:well, at least you have the ability to eventually get a biglaw job. I have a midlaw job now (that i got through connections) but im tied to it because other firms wont want me bc of gpa.

Seriously, if you have a job you shouldn't be posting in this thread about your difficulties getting a new one. That's not what it's for. You might want to go back and read from the beginning to get a sense of it, but it's a thread for people (3Ls and recent grads) who don't have jobs to support each other. There are plenty of people in this thread who would kill for your midlaw job and coming here to complain about it is fairly insensitive.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:11 am

bobtyme wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not sure what to make of the grades, sometimes it cuts both ways, I just found a job two weeks ago (May 2013 grad) and I was Magna cum laude, one of my other top-10 friends has nothing, and a third top-10 is working on a school paid fake fellowship without a real job when it expires soon. T-30.

I had two interviews that were both like, "wow, your gpa, why don't you have a job, you would really work at our shitty place?" Then they reject me because they don't think I'm serious about it.


well, at least you have the ability to eventually get a biglaw job. I have a midlaw job now (that i got through connections) but im tied to it because other firms wont want me bc of gpa.


No one cares about you and your mid-law job. Bye Felicia.

user outed for anon abuse

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:14 pm

sparty99 wrote:
bobtyme wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not sure what to make of the grades, sometimes it cuts both ways, I just found a job two weeks ago (May 2013 grad) and I was Magna cum laude, one of my other top-10 friends has nothing, and a third top-10 is working on a school paid fake fellowship without a real job when it expires soon. T-30.

I had two interviews that were both like, "wow, your gpa, why don't you have a job, you would really work at our shitty place?" Then they reject me because they don't think I'm serious about it.


well, at least you have the ability to eventually get a biglaw job. I have a midlaw job now (that i got through connections) but im tied to it because other firms wont want me bc of gpa.


No one cares about you and your mid-law job. Bye Felicia.

user outed for anon abuse


Well that was just rude.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:21 pm

So I know I don't technically belong here, because I had a job offer but... I ended up turning it down. I had some family stuff happen and I just can't imagine being in a small town where I know no one, so I'm back to focusing on where my dad and brother live. Not to mention the salary was really bad.

So, I'm staying here, hope you guys don't mind. I had two really good interviews on Friday for non-attorney positions.

One was a risk and contracts manager position that really wants someone with a law degree. The position has a lot of autonomy, and really lets me create value for the company. I loved it, and would accept on the spot if the compensation package is fair. They seemed interested, and perked up when I said I could come in every Friday for the rest of the semester to train, and start right after Memorial Day weekend. They should let me know by the end of this week. I really hope I get this position.

The other interview was for an IT consulting job. I was a finance major, but took several computer science classes and know my tech pretty well. They mostly are looking for people who are capable of learning the business because they are in a rapid growth stage. The consulting is all local (no more than 50 miles from the office) and I'd get to be on 3-6 month placements at different companies around the metro area. This really has nothing to do with my law degree, but they like the way JD's think so it gives me a bit of an edge. It was my second-round interview, and they said they'd try and bring me back for a third round interview this week. I'd be totally happy with this job, but I'd take the other one over it if offered both and compensation was close.

Anyone see any downsides to taking a bar-not-required position and just not taking the bar? I'd probably take it eventually just to pass it, but not until at least February 2015. If I got either of these jobs, I wouldn't want to leave them for an associate position unless I spend a year in the position and don't like it.

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northwood
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby northwood » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:03 pm

the downside is that you will be out of the legal learning mindset, but the upside is that you may find out that you really like the job, and don't want to practice law. While it may be more difficult to study and pass the bar once you have started working, as long as you have the JD degree, and meet all other requirements, you should be able to take the bar exam at a later date.

if they want you, and ask you to join, and you are ready to take the job, then take it.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:14 pm

northwood wrote:the downside is that you will be out of the legal learning mindset, but the upside is that you may find out that you really like the job, and don't want to practice law. While it may be more difficult to study and pass the bar once you have started working, as long as you have the JD degree, and meet all other requirements, you should be able to take the bar exam at a later date.

if they want you, and ask you to join, and you are ready to take the job, then take it.


This is reassuring, thanks NW.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:20 pm

chrisbru wrote:So I know I don't technically belong here, because I had a job offer but... I ended up turning it down. I had some family stuff happen and I just can't imagine being in a small town where I know no one, so I'm back to focusing on where my dad and brother live. Not to mention the salary was really bad.

So, I'm staying here, hope you guys don't mind. I had two really good interviews on Friday for non-attorney positions.

One was a risk and contracts manager position that really wants someone with a law degree. The position has a lot of autonomy, and really lets me create value for the company. I loved it, and would accept on the spot if the compensation package is fair. They seemed interested, and perked up when I said I could come in every Friday for the rest of the semester to train, and start right after Memorial Day weekend. They should let me know by the end of this week. I really hope I get this position.

The other interview was for an IT consulting job. I was a finance major, but took several computer science classes and know my tech pretty well. They mostly are looking for people who are capable of learning the business because they are in a rapid growth stage. The consulting is all local (no more than 50 miles from the office) and I'd get to be on 3-6 month placements at different companies around the metro area. This really has nothing to do with my law degree, but they like the way JD's think so it gives me a bit of an edge. It was my second-round interview, and they said they'd try and bring me back for a third round interview this week. I'd be totally happy with this job, but I'd take the other one over it if offered both and compensation was close.

Anyone see any downsides to taking a bar-not-required position and just not taking the bar? I'd probably take it eventually just to pass it, but not until at least February 2015. If I got either of these jobs, I wouldn't want to leave them for an associate position unless I spend a year in the position and don't like it.


you can basically kiss your legal career goodbye as you will have to study for the bar, wait for results. You will have non-legal experience. You will have drafted zero pleadings. You gotta make money, but foregoing the Bar now, would make little to no sense if you ever want to go into law. The longer you are away the less likely you will want or be able to jump back into the industry. Your employment prospects will not be any stronger since you will have no legal experience. You should do everything possible to have an August 1st start date so you can take the bar.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:34 pm

sparty99 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:So I know I don't technically belong here, because I had a job offer but... I ended up turning it down. I had some family stuff happen and I just can't imagine being in a small town where I know no one, so I'm back to focusing on where my dad and brother live. Not to mention the salary was really bad.

So, I'm staying here, hope you guys don't mind. I had two really good interviews on Friday for non-attorney positions.

One was a risk and contracts manager position that really wants someone with a law degree. The position has a lot of autonomy, and really lets me create value for the company. I loved it, and would accept on the spot if the compensation package is fair. They seemed interested, and perked up when I said I could come in every Friday for the rest of the semester to train, and start right after Memorial Day weekend. They should let me know by the end of this week. I really hope I get this position.

The other interview was for an IT consulting job. I was a finance major, but took several computer science classes and know my tech pretty well. They mostly are looking for people who are capable of learning the business because they are in a rapid growth stage. The consulting is all local (no more than 50 miles from the office) and I'd get to be on 3-6 month placements at different companies around the metro area. This really has nothing to do with my law degree, but they like the way JD's think so it gives me a bit of an edge. It was my second-round interview, and they said they'd try and bring me back for a third round interview this week. I'd be totally happy with this job, but I'd take the other one over it if offered both and compensation was close.

Anyone see any downsides to taking a bar-not-required position and just not taking the bar? I'd probably take it eventually just to pass it, but not until at least February 2015. If I got either of these jobs, I wouldn't want to leave them for an associate position unless I spend a year in the position and don't like it.


you can basically kiss your legal career goodbye as you will have to study for the bar, wait for results. You will have non-legal experience. You will have drafted zero pleadings. You gotta make money, but foregoing the Bar now, would make little to no sense if you ever want to go into law. The longer you are away the less likely you will want or be able to jump back into the industry. Your employment prospects will not be any stronger since you will have no legal experience. You should do everything possible to have an August 1st start date so you can take the bar.


While worded a bit strongly, I would agree that you should try to take the bar asap, esp if working technically as a non-lawyer. It's also just easier to deal with the bar now shortly out of law school than later, and as a biz/networking thing it may be helpful to have bar membership even if don't practice. For example, may want to assist on pro bono matters even if you decide to stay w/ these jobs.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:34 pm

sparty99 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:So I know I don't technically belong here, because I had a job offer but... I ended up turning it down. I had some family stuff happen and I just can't imagine being in a small town where I know no one, so I'm back to focusing on where my dad and brother live. Not to mention the salary was really bad.

So, I'm staying here, hope you guys don't mind. I had two really good interviews on Friday for non-attorney positions.

One was a risk and contracts manager position that really wants someone with a law degree. The position has a lot of autonomy, and really lets me create value for the company. I loved it, and would accept on the spot if the compensation package is fair. They seemed interested, and perked up when I said I could come in every Friday for the rest of the semester to train, and start right after Memorial Day weekend. They should let me know by the end of this week. I really hope I get this position.

The other interview was for an IT consulting job. I was a finance major, but took several computer science classes and know my tech pretty well. They mostly are looking for people who are capable of learning the business because they are in a rapid growth stage. The consulting is all local (no more than 50 miles from the office) and I'd get to be on 3-6 month placements at different companies around the metro area. This really has nothing to do with my law degree, but they like the way JD's think so it gives me a bit of an edge. It was my second-round interview, and they said they'd try and bring me back for a third round interview this week. I'd be totally happy with this job, but I'd take the other one over it if offered both and compensation was close.

Anyone see any downsides to taking a bar-not-required position and just not taking the bar? I'd probably take it eventually just to pass it, but not until at least February 2015. If I got either of these jobs, I wouldn't want to leave them for an associate position unless I spend a year in the position and don't like it.


you can basically kiss your legal career goodbye as you will have to study for the bar, wait for results. You will have non-legal experience. You will have drafted zero pleadings. You gotta make money, but foregoing the Bar now, would make little to no sense if you ever want to go into law. The longer you are away the less likely you will want or be able to jump back into the industry. Your employment prospects will not be any stronger since you will have no legal experience. You should do everything possible to have an August 1st start date so you can take the bar.



You must have missed the part where I said I wasn't trying to get an associate position anywhere unless I absolutely hate it. This would be a decision to pursue a non-practicing career... Which is what I intended on doing when I came to law school before I got caught up in the firm-or-bust hype.

I'm asking if there are any negatives to not taking the bar for other reasons... Like if future employees will see the JD on my resume and think I failed the bar, rather than didn't take it, and if that will look negative on my resume.

But, thanks again for jumping to conclusions about my career path, Sparty. It's good to know you can still be a dick about something you are totally off base with.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:48 pm

Welcome back Chris.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:55 pm

chrisbru wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:So I know I don't technically belong here, because I had a job offer but... I ended up turning it down. I had some family stuff happen and I just can't imagine being in a small town where I know no one, so I'm back to focusing on where my dad and brother live. Not to mention the salary was really bad.

So, I'm staying here, hope you guys don't mind. I had two really good interviews on Friday for non-attorney positions.

One was a risk and contracts manager position that really wants someone with a law degree. The position has a lot of autonomy, and really lets me create value for the company. I loved it, and would accept on the spot if the compensation package is fair. They seemed interested, and perked up when I said I could come in every Friday for the rest of the semester to train, and start right after Memorial Day weekend. They should let me know by the end of this week. I really hope I get this position.

The other interview was for an IT consulting job. I was a finance major, but took several computer science classes and know my tech pretty well. They mostly are looking for people who are capable of learning the business because they are in a rapid growth stage. The consulting is all local (no more than 50 miles from the office) and I'd get to be on 3-6 month placements at different companies around the metro area. This really has nothing to do with my law degree, but they like the way JD's think so it gives me a bit of an edge. It was my second-round interview, and they said they'd try and bring me back for a third round interview this week. I'd be totally happy with this job, but I'd take the other one over it if offered both and compensation was close.

Anyone see any downsides to taking a bar-not-required position and just not taking the bar? I'd probably take it eventually just to pass it, but not until at least February 2015. If I got either of these jobs, I wouldn't want to leave them for an associate position unless I spend a year in the position and don't like it.


you can basically kiss your legal career goodbye as you will have to study for the bar, wait for results. You will have non-legal experience. You will have drafted zero pleadings. You gotta make money, but foregoing the Bar now, would make little to no sense if you ever want to go into law. The longer you are away the less likely you will want or be able to jump back into the industry. Your employment prospects will not be any stronger since you will have no legal experience. You should do everything possible to have an August 1st start date so you can take the bar.



You must have missed the part where I said I wasn't trying to get an associate position anywhere unless I absolutely hate it. This would be a decision to pursue a non-practicing career... Which is what I intended on doing when I came to law school before I got caught up in the firm-or-bust hype.

I'm asking if there are any negatives to not taking the bar for other reasons... Like if future employees will see the JD on my resume and think I failed the bar, rather than didn't take it, and if that will look negative on my resume.

But, thanks again for jumping to conclusions about my career path, Sparty. It's good to know you can still be a dick about something you are totally off base with.


You must of missed the part, where if you try to get an associate position and worked at a non-legal job for a year and didn't pass the bar, than no one would want you. And again, if you don't take the bar, then certainly you can kiss your legal career goodbye. Why would employers care that you didn't take the bar if you are not practicing law? Please take five seconds to think about that question.........................And I didn't jump to any conclusion. I simply answered your whack question.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby patogordo » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:57 pm

don't you have some dave ramsey forums to post on or something

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:15 pm

sparty99 wrote:
You must of missed the part, where if you try to get an associate position and worked at a non-legal job for a year and didn't pass the bar, than no one would want you. And again, if you don't take the bar, then certainly you can kiss your legal career goodbye. Why would employers care that you didn't take the bar if you are not practicing law? Please take five seconds to think about that question.........................And I didn't jump to any conclusion. I simply answered your whack question.


I'm not sure why they would care... That's why I was asking. I just want to cover all of my bases here because I like to think about the long term. One of the jobs is legal-based (contracts and risk management) and all but requires a law degree, so I think that moving to a firm after a year there would still be possible, especially since if I wanted to go that route I wouldn't apply for firms until after I had passed the bar.

I really just don't understand why you have to be so high-and-mighty with all of your answer. I, like everyone in this thread, have legitimate questions about decisions that will affect the rest of my life, so maybe just tone it down a bit?

To illustrate my point, I've helped you with an edit of your original response which conveys all information you wanted to without the attitude.

spartyafterxanax99 wrote:you can basically kiss your legal career goodbye as you will have to study for the bar, wait for results. You will have non-legal experience. You will have drafted zero pleadings. You gotta make money, but foregoing the Bar now, would make little to no sense if you ever want to go into law. The longer you are away the less likely you will want or be able to jump back into the industry. Your employment prospects will not be any stronger since you will have no legal experience. You should do everything possible to have an August 1st start date so you can take the bar.


Long story short, you really can't move from a non-law job to a law job easily. You'd have to study for the bar, wait for results, and pass it to be considered in the first place. On top of that, you will have spent a year without getting any legal practice experience, which means that firms don't have any incentive to hire you over a different newly-minted attorney. I understand the desire to make money now rather than putting it off, but if you ever want to go into law then you should do what you can to take the bar in July and start a job after that.


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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:32 pm

chrisbru wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:So I know I don't technically belong here, because I had a job offer but... I ended up turning it down. I had some family stuff happen and I just can't imagine being in a small town where I know no one, so I'm back to focusing on where my dad and brother live. Not to mention the salary was really bad.

So, I'm staying here, hope you guys don't mind. I had two really good interviews on Friday for non-attorney positions.

One was a risk and contracts manager position that really wants someone with a law degree. The position has a lot of autonomy, and really lets me create value for the company. I loved it, and would accept on the spot if the compensation package is fair. They seemed interested, and perked up when I said I could come in every Friday for the rest of the semester to train, and start right after Memorial Day weekend. They should let me know by the end of this week. I really hope I get this position.

The other interview was for an IT consulting job. I was a finance major, but took several computer science classes and know my tech pretty well. They mostly are looking for people who are capable of learning the business because they are in a rapid growth stage. The consulting is all local (no more than 50 miles from the office) and I'd get to be on 3-6 month placements at different companies around the metro area. This really has nothing to do with my law degree, but they like the way JD's think so it gives me a bit of an edge. It was my second-round interview, and they said they'd try and bring me back for a third round interview this week. I'd be totally happy with this job, but I'd take the other one over it if offered both and compensation was close.

Anyone see any downsides to taking a bar-not-required position and just not taking the bar? I'd probably take it eventually just to pass it, but not until at least February 2015. If I got either of these jobs, I wouldn't want to leave them for an associate position unless I spend a year in the position and don't like it.


you can basically kiss your legal career goodbye as you will have to study for the bar, wait for results. You will have non-legal experience. You will have drafted zero pleadings. You gotta make money, but foregoing the Bar now, would make little to no sense if you ever want to go into law. The longer you are away the less likely you will want or be able to jump back into the industry. Your employment prospects will not be any stronger since you will have no legal experience. You should do everything possible to have an August 1st start date so you can take the bar.



You must have missed the part where I said I wasn't trying to get an associate position anywhere unless I absolutely hate it. This would be a decision to pursue a non-practicing career... Which is what I intended on doing when I came to law school before I got caught up in the firm-or-bust hype.

I'm asking if there are any negatives to not taking the bar for other reasons... Like if future employees will see the JD on my resume and think I failed the bar, rather than didn't take it, and if that will look negative on my resume.

But, thanks again for jumping to conclusions about my career path, Sparty. It's good to know you can still be a dick about something you are totally off base with.


I'm in kind of a similar situation. Failed the bar, have a job that does not require bar passage (but does require a JD). My next job is the same way.

I've decided to take the bar again in July, just in case I ever need it. If I wait any longer I will forget everything and probably have even more distractions preventing me from studying. I doubt I will ever "practice" law in the sense that I will represent clients and need the bar, but 5 years from now there may be a job I want that just wants bar passage, and I don't want to miss out just because I didn't want to take it again. I'm also taking it in the easiest and cheapest state I can find, instead of CA like I did last time. Maybe something similar would work for you?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gfunk01 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:34 pm

chrisbru wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:So I know I don't technically belong here, because I had a job offer but... I ended up turning it down. I had some family stuff happen and I just can't imagine being in a small town where I know no one, so I'm back to focusing on where my dad and brother live. Not to mention the salary was really bad.

So, I'm staying here, hope you guys don't mind. I had two really good interviews on Friday for non-attorney positions.

One was a risk and contracts manager position that really wants someone with a law degree. The position has a lot of autonomy, and really lets me create value for the company. I loved it, and would accept on the spot if the compensation package is fair. They seemed interested, and perked up when I said I could come in every Friday for the rest of the semester to train, and start right after Memorial Day weekend. They should let me know by the end of this week. I really hope I get this position.

The other interview was for an IT consulting job. I was a finance major, but took several computer science classes and know my tech pretty well. They mostly are looking for people who are capable of learning the business because they are in a rapid growth stage. The consulting is all local (no more than 50 miles from the office) and I'd get to be on 3-6 month placements at different companies around the metro area. This really has nothing to do with my law degree, but they like the way JD's think so it gives me a bit of an edge. It was my second-round interview, and they said they'd try and bring me back for a third round interview this week. I'd be totally happy with this job, but I'd take the other one over it if offered both and compensation was close.

Anyone see any downsides to taking a bar-not-required position and just not taking the bar? I'd probably take it eventually just to pass it, but not until at least February 2015. If I got either of these jobs, I wouldn't want to leave them for an associate position unless I spend a year in the position and don't like it.


you can basically kiss your legal career goodbye as you will have to study for the bar, wait for results. You will have non-legal experience. You will have drafted zero pleadings. You gotta make money, but foregoing the Bar now, would make little to no sense if you ever want to go into law. The longer you are away the less likely you will want or be able to jump back into the industry. Your employment prospects will not be any stronger since you will have no legal experience. You should do everything possible to have an August 1st start date so you can take the bar.



You must have missed the part where I said I wasn't trying to get an associate position anywhere unless I absolutely hate it. This would be a decision to pursue a non-practicing career... Which is what I intended on doing when I came to law school before I got caught up in the firm-or-bust hype.

I'm asking if there are any negatives to not taking the bar for other reasons... Like if future employees will see the JD on my resume and think I failed the bar, rather than didn't take it, and if that will look negative on my resume.

But, thanks again for jumping to conclusions about my career path, Sparty. It's good to know you can still be a dick about something you are totally off base with.


I would just take the bar soon. It would look strange to be a JD but not admitted anywhere. Each state has rules about being non-active, which is always an option if you decide not to practice, and sounds positions that like people w/ JDs prefer to have that person be admitted even if never practice. The main downside I can think of w/ taking the bar and getting admitted but not practicing is that it does open you to potential ethics and malpractice challenges, and would require you to be cognizant of maybe needing to disclose in certain instances when and when you are not acting as an attorney.

In terms of moving from a non-lawyer position to a law firm, I am a bit w/ sparty on this one. It may not necessarily be impossible, but seems like it would make things very difficult knowing how picky firms already are about hiring people. While firms have become more open to taking on people who may not have grown up w/ a firm, I haven't heard or seen anything where they take on people who didn't work as lawyers after finishing law school, and a year may be considered too long for many firms (at least big law, smaller and mid-law firms may or may not be more willing). Just my two cents on this as I may have to soon face the issue of looking at non-law positions once my fellowship is up and if things don't improve.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:39 pm

I think you should take the bar. To be honest, I don't have a tangible reason except you've come so far. If you take it, then you will be done with it forever. Getting sworn in as a lawyer feels great.

But I can't think of any disaster that will befall you if you wait a year.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:47 pm

Take the bar but I doubt you'll ever get a traditional law firm job if you don't practice law in the traditional sense right away

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:29 pm

gfunk01 wrote:I would just take the bar soon. It would look strange to be a JD but not admitted anywhere. Each state has rules about being non-active, which is always an option if you decide not to practice, and sounds positions that like people w/ JDs prefer to have that person be admitted even if never practice. The main downside I can think of w/ taking the bar and getting admitted but not practicing is that it does open you to potential ethics and malpractice challenges, and would require you to be cognizant of maybe needing to disclose in certain instances when and when you are not acting as an attorney.

In terms of moving from a non-lawyer position to a law firm, I am a bit w/ sparty on this one. It may not necessarily be impossible, but seems like it would make things very difficult knowing how picky firms already are about hiring people. While firms have become more open to taking on people who may not have grown up w/ a firm, I haven't heard or seen anything where they take on people who didn't work as lawyers after finishing law school, and a year may be considered too long for many firms (at least big law, smaller and mid-law firms may or may not be more willing). Just my two cents on this as I may have to soon face the issue of looking at non-law positions once my fellowship is up and if things don't improve.


TYFT (+NYS and Rad). Lots of good information. I guess my question then is will there really be any difference between July and February if I'm just employed with one place that whole time anyway?

Did anyone work full-time while studying for the bar and pass it? How much studying does it really take?

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:33 pm

chrisbru wrote:Did anyone work full-time while studying for the bar and pass it? How much studying does it really take?


Studying for the bar depends on which state bar you're taking and your standardized test taking abilities. If you're taking a UBE bar instead of the CA bar, studying will be easier. If you're good at test taking, studying will be easier.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:35 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Did anyone work full-time while studying for the bar and pass it? How much studying does it really take?


Studying for the bar depends on which state bar you're taking and your standardized test taking abilities. If you're taking a UBE bar instead of the CA bar, studying will be easier. If you're good at test taking, studying will be easier.


I'd either do MN (UBE) or IA (MBE). Pretty good test taker, especially multiple choice. Still curious to hear from someone who did work while studying for the bar.

gfunk01
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gfunk01 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:39 pm

chrisbru wrote:
gfunk01 wrote:I would just take the bar soon. It would look strange to be a JD but not admitted anywhere. Each state has rules about being non-active, which is always an option if you decide not to practice, and sounds positions that like people w/ JDs prefer to have that person be admitted even if never practice. The main downside I can think of w/ taking the bar and getting admitted but not practicing is that it does open you to potential ethics and malpractice challenges, and would require you to be cognizant of maybe needing to disclose in certain instances when and when you are not acting as an attorney.

In terms of moving from a non-lawyer position to a law firm, I am a bit w/ sparty on this one. It may not necessarily be impossible, but seems like it would make things very difficult knowing how picky firms already are about hiring people. While firms have become more open to taking on people who may not have grown up w/ a firm, I haven't heard or seen anything where they take on people who didn't work as lawyers after finishing law school, and a year may be considered too long for many firms (at least big law, smaller and mid-law firms may or may not be more willing). Just my two cents on this as I may have to soon face the issue of looking at non-law positions once my fellowship is up and if things don't improve.


TYFT (+NYS and Rad). Lots of good information. I guess my question then is will there really be any difference between July and February if I'm just employed with one place that whole time anyway?

Did anyone work full-time while studying for the bar and pass it? How much studying does it really take?


Btn July and Feb, the main thing will be time difference. Depending on which state/district, it can take a long while to get admitted even after passing the bar. I would recommend the sooner the better just to get it done.

I've known people who worked full time and passed the NY bar. The general consensus is that you should at least allow yourself two weeks before the exam to crunch. Before that, as long as you are diligent you can spread it out in manageable chunks. I started studying for the Feb 2013 bar the day after xmas, but wasn't pulling all day cram sessions or whatever. It also depends on what bar course you do, since some (namely BarBri) inundate you I believe unnecessarily to ensure passage. It also depends on the person, so others can only advise so much.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:53 pm

chrisbru wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Did anyone work full-time while studying for the bar and pass it? How much studying does it really take?


Studying for the bar depends on which state bar you're taking and your standardized test taking abilities. If you're taking a UBE bar instead of the CA bar, studying will be easier. If you're good at test taking, studying will be easier.


I'd either do MN (UBE) or IA (MBE). Pretty good test taker, especially multiple choice. Still curious to hear from someone who did work while studying for the bar.



I took the UBE, and while I didn't take it while working FT, I think it'd be doable. I've said elsewhere on TLS that while I prepped 6-10 hours a day and only 3-5 of those hours were actually useful. The rest was useless busy work, making flashcards I didn't use, formatting outlines just so, zoning out during the lecture videos, etc. Plus I took a fair amount of days off, just cuz.


For the UBE, focus on the MBE and the MPT, as the MEE only subjects have only amounted to like 3 of the 6 essays in the past. Even then there's a good chance that 1 of those 3 MEE only essays will be Civ Pro, and there's another decent chance that another one of the 3 MEE only essays will be a Corps/Agency question. As it stands, you're probably looking at like 5-15% of the total bar being from Family, Trusts/Estates, Conflicts, or Secured Transactions. Read their outlines and have a general idea about those topics, sure. Just remember that there are guaranteed point grabs in the MBE and the MPT.

gfunk01
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby gfunk01 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:03 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
chrisbru wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Did anyone work full-time while studying for the bar and pass it? How much studying does it really take?


Studying for the bar depends on which state bar you're taking and your standardized test taking abilities. If you're taking a UBE bar instead of the CA bar, studying will be easier. If you're good at test taking, studying will be easier.


I'd either do MN (UBE) or IA (MBE). Pretty good test taker, especially multiple choice. Still curious to hear from someone who did work while studying for the bar.



I took the UBE, and while I didn't take it while working FT, I think it'd be doable. I've said elsewhere on TLS that while I prepped 6-10 hours a day, probably only 3-5 of those hours were actually useful. The rest was useless busy work, making flashcards I didn't use, formatting outlines just so, zoning out during the lecture videos, etc. Plus I took a fair amount of days off, just cuz.


For the UBE, focus on the MBE and the MPT, as the MEE only subjects have only amounted to like 3 of the 6 essays in the past. Even then, there's a good chance that 1 of those 3 MEE only essays will be Civ Pro, and there's another decent chance that another one of the 3 MEE only essays will be a Corps/Agency question. As it stands, you're probably looking at like 5-15% of the total bar being from Family, Trusts/Estates, Conflicts, Secured Transactions, etc.


I didn't spend anytime studying for the MPT other than watching the single video lecture on it and reading the common instructions. Not sure how you can study for it since it is closed universe (essentially the law school equivalent of a DBQ).

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HanShotFirst
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby HanShotFirst » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:24 pm

Just out of curiosity, what type of schools did you guys go to rank wise

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splitsplat
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby splitsplat » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:28 pm

HanShotFirst wrote:Just out of curiosity, what type of schools did you guys go to rank wise

seriously? get the fuck out dude




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