The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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nevdash
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby nevdash » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:56 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:I'd gladly take top 30% + LR write on than top 15% + Top secondary journal just based on OCI results from the past 2 years. If you read around TLS you'll see that there are routinely people from the non T20's who are around top 10-20% and are jobless.

Really? Maybe we both have the "grass is greener" mentality, but I'm also at a T30 and was top 30% + LR write-on after 1L, and I struck out at OCI. I also saw a ton of top 10-15% kids on secondary journals (or even with no journal at all) get biglaw, so I feel like I would have gladly taken top 15% + secondary.

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snowpeach06
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:02 pm

I feel like passion for a particular subject and experience in that area can overcome not being on law review. You just need to be dedicated, build up your resume and go the extra mile - not give up when jobs don't pan out. If you are persistent enough things will work out. No jobs are a "lock," but I don't see why people are so afraid of *gasp* sending out application after application, and going on interview after interview until you eventually land something. If you don't give up, you won't wind up working at Starbucks (in the long run... if its required for a few months, so be it). Its the people who think "I lost out at OCI and the couple jobs I applied to thereafter, fuck it, I'm going to live the rest of my life in poverty" that lead poor miserable lives. I've never been an optimistic person, but, I can never accept just giving up. In my experiences, I've lost out on things I thought I really wanted. Sometimes I look bad and I'm sad about that, and wish I could have done it, but, other things have always popped up, and sometimes they wind up being even better than what I thought I wanted.

All of this is to say, its the holidays, I've been watching a lot of sappy movies, and it seems like anything is possible. Just be happy and hopeful. It's depressing to read all the exaggerated doom and gloom on TLS. Gotta make lemonade out of lemons or whatever the saying is.

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nevdash
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby nevdash » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:24 pm

Agreed that a negative attitude doesn't do any good, but it's pretty hard to not be bitter when you're constantly interviewed by shitboomer partners who graduated from TTTs with no honors and then ask you questions like "is this job really something that you want" before sending a generic ding a week later. Hey buddy, I actually put in work and did somewhat well in school while you fell into a cushy job solely because your generation was lucky. Which one of us acted more like we wanted this job?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Sm Firm Hiring P » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:25 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Unless I misunderstood your post you were speaking of people in schools ranked 21-100 and not in the top 5% of the class. Going on the assumption that that is correct, it is my experience that those people are far from safe to find any job, let alone a well paid one (I am one of those people currently :)). My experience has been that there are the LR kids, and the rest of us, no matter the grades. If you didn't make LR, it gets difficult to get something out of OCI as the lack of firms makes it easy for them to swarm the LR kids. It almost feels like LR matters much more than grades, at least at my school. I'd gladly take top 30% + LR write on than top 15% + Top secondary journal just based on OCI results from the past 2 years. If you read around TLS you'll see that there are routinely people from the non T20's who are around top 10-20% and are jobless. I'm not saying all hope is lost, but your post made it seem like the small law or corporate jobs are a virtual lock, which in my experience they are not.



I agree that law journals help but not always does it have to be LR. Though, we are not a biglaw firm. We look for LR or a significant role with a secondary journal with top 20% credentials (top 33% for the T20 in our area). We are really targeting the 5%-20% of T2s which is the normal hire for us. We generally wait until December to hire our summers, after the big firms are finished with OCI. Law journals are important to us not so much for the distinction but for writing skill advancement as well as that survival with that tedous routine generally equates to a better detail person. But there are other things that matter to us since we get many that fit that criteria. Unique cover letter, business major or minor undergraduate degree, social experiences during college, active in associations/societies in law school and law firm summer experience to name a few. We have two 3Ls who will start with us in May within that criteria. I did note from their interviews and minor mistakes in interviewing that they had only a small handful of firm interviews which is seems to be the norm the last few years given the market (quite different several years ago) which likely proves your point some. I am very sympathetic to the difficulties in finding meaningful jobs and lurk here and participate in questions to learn what students are looking for so we can find the best matches for our practice. Thanks for your answers.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:28 pm

.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:13 pm

nevdash wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I'd gladly take top 30% + LR write on than top 15% + Top secondary journal just based on OCI results from the past 2 years. If you read around TLS you'll see that there are routinely people from the non T20's who are around top 10-20% and are jobless.

Really? Maybe we both have the "grass is greener" mentality, but I'm also at a T30 and was top 30% + LR write-on after 1L, and I struck out at OCI. I also saw a ton of top 10-15% kids on secondary journals (or even with no journal at all) get biglaw, so I feel like I would have gladly taken top 15% + secondary.


I guess its different at all schools. I am top 15% and top secondary and we had a total of ONE person from our journal get biglaw from OCI. Almost everyone on LR (including write on people who had nowhere near top 15%) landed either biglaw or 100K+ midlaw. The few LR kids who didn't land anything for 2L summer landed something during 3L OCI. At my school LR is everything.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:57 pm

Got dinged from the fancy PI org I interned for over the summer despite being commended by the Executive Director for my commitment to the cause. Then I went to a wedding reception and scowled at people for 4 hours. Fun times.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Aqualibrium » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:01 pm

nevdash wrote:Agreed that a negative attitude doesn't do any good, but it's pretty hard to not be bitter when you're constantly interviewed by shitboomer partners who graduated from TTTs with no honors and then ask you questions like "is this job really something that you want" before sending a generic ding a week later. Hey buddy, I actually put in work and did somewhat well in school while you fell into a cushy job solely because your generation was lucky. Which one of us acted more like we wanted this job?



Grab a drink...maybe a smoke too.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:15 pm

sadsituationJD wrote:What's going to be sad is say a year or two from now. You've passed the bar and are living at home with Mom n' Dad, maybe working a part-time gig at the local Starbucks or B&N whilst spamming resumes to EVERY craigslist ad even remotely law-related. Sallie Mae stuffs your folks mailbox and has worn out your cellphone to the point where you had to switch numbers. Holidays and family dinners are suicide-inducing, with non-law shitboomer uncles and such asking about some new SCOTUS case and asking how the "newest lawyer in the family" is doing and if you've yet bought a Benz.

You occasionally see a "dumb" kid or two from your high school class walk into Starbucks whose now a plumber/electrician/etc, talking about buying their first house, starting a family, etc. You watch them walk across the parking lot and hop in a new car, and just want to die as you stand behind the counter thinking about your worthless "education," all those years pissed away in undergrad, studying for the SAT and then LSAT, all the first year stress, the MPRE, the finals, the barzam, the 8000-page character and fitness app, etc.

All for nothing. Education, as many of you are learning the hard way, was/is for the most part "yesterdays tomorrow." Maybe at best you'll score some shitlaw insurance defense gig, which is dead-end and pays south of 50 K a year. Subtract loan payments from this salary and you might as well just work fast food.


This isn't the thread for this. If you want to create a thread dedicated to this idea, please feel free, but this thread is really for jobless 3Ls (and those trying to help the jobless 3Ls) to discuss, lament, etc. Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.

To those in the thread, I have obviously no help to offer you, so good luck, and report any more posts of this nature.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sadsituationJD » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:08 am

Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.


Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby IAFG » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:12 am

sadsituationJD wrote:
Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.


Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.

Not everyone is a bitter, miserable failure like you. Maybe stop trying to convince yourself everyone else is going to fail like you failed and work on making yourself less miserable.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:24 am

sadsituationJD wrote:
Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.


Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.



Someone needs to ban this dude pronto.

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ndirish2010
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:26 am

sadsituationJD wrote:
Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.


Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.


LOL, you know you're talking to an HLS 2L? Who is the pathetic one now?

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beach_terror
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby beach_terror » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:49 am

What a sad, pathetic post on Christmas day. Literally lol'd. It must take a lot of personal unhappiness to wish failure on strangers.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:35 pm

Ebenezer Scrooge in the flesh.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:30 pm

sadsituationJD wrote:
Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.


Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.


Seriously GTFO. Encouraging people who are already down on their luck to commit suicide is outrageous, and you should be ashamed of yourself. I generally agree with the message you are trying to get out although I don't agree with the degree to which you predict doom and gloom. But it is also clear that it is mostly your character and your negativity that is holding you back.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Agent » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:33 pm

+1

somewhatwayward wrote:
sadsituationJD wrote:
Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.


Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.


Seriously GTFO. Encouraging people who are already down on their luck to commit suicide is outrageous, and you should be ashamed of yourself. I generally agree with the message you are trying to get out although I don't agree with the degree to which you predict doom and gloom. But it is also clear that it is mostly your character and your negativity that is holding you back.

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acrossthelake
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:37 pm

Oh, I suppose I should mention the guy was banned yesterday. Although he can probably still read this.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:53 pm

Just got a rejection from Pryor Cashman. To add insult, they sent me a form summer associate rejection letter, when I was interviewing for entry level.

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beach_terror
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby beach_terror » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:14 pm

Are you all still sending out emails to recruiters? I don't want to get lost in the shuffle or anything since it's the holidays but also don't want to sit idly.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:30 pm

beach_terror wrote:Are you all still sending out emails to recruiters? I don't want to get lost in the shuffle or anything since it's the holidays but also don't want to sit idly.


I'm not. I had interviewed w/ them before the winter break, shortly after Thanksgiving. I just got back today, so was waiting in my mail box.

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wert3813
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby wert3813 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:22 am

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Last edited by wert3813 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:41 pm

Feeling mildly discouraged bros.

All of the postings are for immediate openings, and I keep getting the "We don't know what our needs are going to be in August." I'm thinking there's not really a good reason to do much until March or April.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:39 pm

The notion that missing out on OCI means you will never find decent legal work is absurd. Plenty of people miss out at OCI and have fine careers, though perhaps nothing spectacular.

I think it depends on why you missed out. Bottom of the class and a terrible interviewer and not really good at the legal thing may not have a chance. No-offered for some reason not related to being terrible at your job or just missed out even with a few interviews means things will be harder, but you can still have a good job and make decent money.

Relax for now, have a good holiday, and realize that it will pick up again in January / February with smaller firms.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Agent » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:26 pm

Sorry bro. I recommend a strong networking push until then.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm thinking there's not really a good reason to do much until March or April.




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