The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
jbiresq
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:52 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jbiresq » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are there any biglaw firms still hiring for the fall? I'm kind of leaning back towards going for biglaw after debating it for a while with myself and my family. Being no offered out of left field from a top firm made me want to re-evaluate my circumstances especially with recruiters calling for compliance positions at banks that pay biglaw starting salaries with much better hours due to my background (and the recent emphasis on compliance due to big fines at J.P. Morgan etc.)

I just feel that after going through law school and all the pain that entailed, I shouldn't close off being a lawyer as an option right away and I did enjoy the work when I summered, even though I was billing a ton of hours as a summer. Its pretty late to get into the search I understand, so I'm trying to figure out where to start, or whether I should just start mass mailing every market paying firm.

Also, when I do targeted mailing, I feel like it takes away from my chances if I mail about multiple practices but I am flexible among several practice areas (that aren't closely related but all generate a lot of work for big law) due to a rather diverse working background before the law.

Anyone have any advice? I'm having a bit of trouble because it seems most firms hiring now don't pay market, and in that case, going in house seems like a better option.

You got fucked by your firm but now you have six figure offers on the table? It's a pretty amazing situation. I know you want to work for a big firm but 3L hiring for the "market" firms at this stage is so random/specific/non-existent that you'd be a fool not to take the corporate job.

Mass-mailing at this stage is a huge waste of time and energy. Firms that do hire, all 2 of them, want people for specific practices whose needs you won't know in advance.
Basically, I'm sort of in the vale because I have high paying options outside of purely legal positions but I don't want to close off career options too early.

User avatar
BarbellDreams
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:02 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:While I have a job right now, it's just not what I want. So I've been starting to look again for policy oriented jobs, and all the issues I had while in the vale are just flooding back. I'm over or under qualified for most jobs. My four months of work experience don't really change that. I know I shouldn't complain, because at least I get a paycheck right now, but I'm just so frustrated. Moreover, I know exactly where i want my career to go (I want to do government relations for a non-profit in one of a limited number of issue areas) but so few jobs actually lead there. I'm having a hard time deciding if I should do whatever I can to get out of my current job (I think staying here will make me go insane), or wait for one of the three jobs which could get me there. And then of course, hope I could get one of them. It's so rough knowing you need to make life changing decisions fresh out of school.


What don't you like about your job?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273382
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:26 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:While I have a job right now, it's just not what I want. So I've been starting to look again for policy oriented jobs, and all the issues I had while in the vale are just flooding back. I'm over or under qualified for most jobs. My four months of work experience don't really change that. I know I shouldn't complain, because at least I get a paycheck right now, but I'm just so frustrated. Moreover, I know exactly where i want my career to go (I want to do government relations for a non-profit in one of a limited number of issue areas) but so few jobs actually lead there. I'm having a hard time deciding if I should do whatever I can to get out of my current job (I think staying here will make me go insane), or wait for one of the three jobs which could get me there. And then of course, hope I could get one of them. It's so rough knowing you need to make life changing decisions fresh out of school.


You need to look at the long term. I'm at job that sucks and isn't moving the ball forward for me any toward my goals. I'm just putting in my time and waiting for the right opening while doing the best I can to stay employed.

User avatar
snowpeach06
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:45 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:While I have a job right now, it's just not what I want. So I've been starting to look again for policy oriented jobs, and all the issues I had while in the vale are just flooding back. I'm over or under qualified for most jobs. My four months of work experience don't really change that. I know I shouldn't complain, because at least I get a paycheck right now, but I'm just so frustrated. Moreover, I know exactly where i want my career to go (I want to do government relations for a non-profit in one of a limited number of issue areas) but so few jobs actually lead there. I'm having a hard time deciding if I should do whatever I can to get out of my current job (I think staying here will make me go insane), or wait for one of the three jobs which could get me there. And then of course, hope I could get one of them. It's so rough knowing you need to make life changing decisions fresh out of school.


What don't you like about your job?

There are a lot of things. For starters, 90% of the time, I don't work. I go on facebook/g-chat/ect. My brain is going numb and I'm not learning anything. When I do work, I essentially run a non-profit. However, since I just graduated, I have no idea how to do that, and I get ridiculously stressed out. It would be fine if anyone tried to train me, but my boss comes into the office maybe 5 times a week. He has never tried to train me, and is useless at helping since if I ever ask him a question, he either ignores my e-mails, or in person will launch into a (LITERALLY) hour long monologue about the state of something frustrating him instead of answering it. Moreover, my secretary just announced today that he is leaving, making me the only person in the office. I have no desire to have no human interaction. Plus, I'll have to take on all his secretarial stuff (paying bills, filling out forms, answering phones, ect). Furthermore, my organization is always on the brink of going out of business. Thus, no stability. Plus, it makes my boss desperate, and so he'll do whatever to make money. Usually it's not stuff that fulfills the do-gooder role I want to have in life, and he's even talked about doing some things i consider to be morally gray. Probably the only good things about my job are the flexibility (I can take off whenever), I can wear jeans, I have an office and occasionally I get invited to cool fundraisers for fancy politicians.

It sucks too, because if I am lucky enough to get a hill job or something, I'm probably going to be taking a huge pay cut. I think average pay there is about $35k. But I already have a lease assuming I'm making $10k more than that.

sparty99
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:02 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:While I have a job right now, it's just not what I want. So I've been starting to look again for policy oriented jobs, and all the issues I had while in the vale are just flooding back. I'm over or under qualified for most jobs. My four months of work experience don't really change that. I know I shouldn't complain, because at least I get a paycheck right now, but I'm just so frustrated. Moreover, I know exactly where i want my career to go (I want to do government relations for a non-profit in one of a limited number of issue areas) but so few jobs actually lead there. I'm having a hard time deciding if I should do whatever I can to get out of my current job (I think staying here will make me go insane), or wait for one of the three jobs which could get me there. And then of course, hope I could get one of them. It's so rough knowing you need to make life changing decisions fresh out of school.


What don't you like about your job?

There are a lot of things. For starters, 90% of the time, I don't work. I go on facebook/g-chat/ect. My brain is going numb and I'm not learning anything. When I do work, I essentially run a non-profit. However, since I just graduated, I have no idea how to do that, and I get ridiculously stressed out. It would be fine if anyone tried to train me, but my boss comes into the office maybe 5 times a week. He has never tried to train me, and is useless at helping since if I ever ask him a question, he either ignores my e-mails, or in person will launch into a (LITERALLY) hour long monologue about the state of something frustrating him instead of answering it. Moreover, my secretary just announced today that he is leaving, making me the only person in the office. I have no desire to have no human interaction. Plus, I'll have to take on all his secretarial stuff (paying bills, filling out forms, answering phones, ect). Furthermore, my organization is always on the brink of going out of business. Thus, no stability. Plus, it makes my boss desperate, and so he'll do whatever to make money. Usually it's not stuff that fulfills the do-gooder role I want to have in life, and he's even talked about doing some things i consider to be morally gray. Probably the only good things about my job are the flexibility (I can take off whenever), I can wear jeans, I have an office and occasionally I get invited to cool fundraisers for fancy politicians.

It sucks too, because if I am lucky enough to get a hill job or something, I'm probably going to be taking a huge pay cut. I think average pay there is about $35k. But I already have a lease assuming I'm making $10k more than that.


Your job sounds legit. You run your own non-profit and have flexability to make it your own.

User avatar
patogordo
Posts: 4827
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:33 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby patogordo » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:04 pm

maybe you should start embezzling

User avatar
snowpeach06
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:43 am

sparty99 wrote:Your job sounds legit. You run your own non-profit and have flexability to make it your own.

It sounds good. But it's not. While I would love to take the job and run with it, it's just not fun when you have no idea how to do it. It's not like you can just wake up one morning and know how to run a non-profit, when you've never had anything but internships before. There aren't courses on it. Plus, I still do need approval for any ideas from my boss, and he often doesn't give it. Plus, getting most projects funded can take years, leaving you with no work in the meantime.

sparty99
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:45 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Your job sounds legit. You run your own non-profit and have flexability to make it your own.

It sounds good. But it's not. While I would love to take the job and run with it, it's just not fun when you have no idea how to do it. It's not like you can just wake up one morning and know how to run a non-profit, when you've never had anything but internships before. There aren't courses on it. Plus, I still do need approval for any ideas from my boss, and he often doesn't give it. Plus, getting most projects funded can take years, leaving you with no work in the meantime.


Just chill out. This is clearly your first full-time job. Not every job is going to be roses. The "do what you love mantra" is old and tired. Learn to like your job. You have only been there four months. This is a forum for people who are unemployed, who don't have the luxury of a paycheck. You have that. You are meeting with politicians at fundraisers. Who knows what doors that can open. None of these decisions are "life changing." You make decisions every day of your career. What you decide today, can be different from what you decide three years from now. Just go with the damn flow. If you truly don't like your job, then find a new one. If you can't get a new job now, then just be patient and do the most that you can in your current position.

User avatar
Pretzel_Logic
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:51 pm

Uh, wow. Okay.

Snowpeach, good luck with search. Working a job you hate can be almost as crushing as not having one, so hang in there.

I'm still waiting after a second interview. Nothing else in the pipeline, really; Symplicity is putting up out-of-state listings. What. Kinda telling myself the firm I interviewed with passed me over so I can be excited if they call but not die if they don't.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:44 pm

sparty99 wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Your job sounds legit. You run your own non-profit and have flexability to make it your own.

It sounds good. But it's not. While I would love to take the job and run with it, it's just not fun when you have no idea how to do it. It's not like you can just wake up one morning and know how to run a non-profit, when you've never had anything but internships before. There aren't courses on it. Plus, I still do need approval for any ideas from my boss, and he often doesn't give it. Plus, getting most projects funded can take years, leaving you with no work in the meantime.


Just chill out. This is clearly your first full-time job. Not every job is going to be roses. The "do what you love mantra" is old and tired. Learn to like your job. You have only been there four months. This is a forum for people who are unemployed, who don't have the luxury of a paycheck. You have that. You are meeting with politicians at fundraisers. Who knows what doors that can open. None of these decisions are "life changing." You make decisions every day of your career. What you decide today, can be different from what you decide three years from now. Just go with the damn flow. If you truly don't like your job, then find a new one. If you can't get a new job now, then just be patient and do the most that you can in your current position.

I sorta agree w sparty actually

It's fine to keep looking

But I'd stick with it a little while longer

4 months is not that much time

And there really is an infinite difference between people w one job and people ITT w no job

Anonymous User
Posts: 273382
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:14 pm

Asking for some help here. Graduated from a lower T14 school, class of 2013, working for a smaller to midsize firm in the Northeast, and got fired today for lack of fit after about 5 months. What it really came down to was the firm doesn't usually hire entry level, and it seems realized they don't want to take the time to do any sort of training and expected the kind of results usually expected of a more experienced attorney. Was given a month to find something new so buys me a little time to job hunt. Have passed the NY bar, so I'm guessing my best bet is to pursue opportunities there. While I wouldn't mind leaving the area, I relocated here because of this job and it was pretty expensive, and so the thought of breaking my lease, relocating again etc would be financially very difficult and hard to stomach. WIth savings, I can realistically live here another 3-4 months before I would need a loan and/or parental help. It really sucks though, and I'm still shellshocked, if anyone has any advice on my best shot to land something decent in the area. Think NY/NJ/Philly/DE/Connecticut/MA area. Any advice would be appreciated, feeling really really low right now.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Asking for some help here. Graduated from a lower T14 school, class of 2013, working for a smaller to midsize firm in the Northeast, and got fired today for lack of fit after about 5 months. What it really came down to was the firm doesn't usually hire entry level, and it seems realized they don't want to take the time to do any sort of training and expected the kind of results usually expected of a more experienced attorney. Was given a month to find something new so buys me a little time to job hunt. Have passed the NY bar, so I'm guessing my best bet is to pursue opportunities there. While I wouldn't mind leaving the area, I relocated here because of this job and it was pretty expensive, and so the thought of breaking my lease, relocating again etc would be financially very difficult and hard to stomach. WIth savings, I can realistically live here another 3-4 months before I would need a loan and/or parental help. It really sucks though, and I'm still shellshocked, if anyone has any advice on my best shot to land something decent in the area. Think NY/NJ/Philly/DE/Connecticut/MA area. Any advice would be appreciated, feeling really really low right now.

I dont have any advice for you bro

Just wanted to say I'm sorry

That's a harrowing story and a tough situation

Anonymous User
Posts: 273382
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:42 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Asking for some help here. Graduated from a lower T14 school, class of 2013, working for a smaller to midsize firm in the Northeast, and got fired today for lack of fit after about 5 months. What it really came down to was the firm doesn't usually hire entry level, and it seems realized they don't want to take the time to do any sort of training and expected the kind of results usually expected of a more experienced attorney. Was given a month to find something new so buys me a little time to job hunt. Have passed the NY bar, so I'm guessing my best bet is to pursue opportunities there. While I wouldn't mind leaving the area, I relocated here because of this job and it was pretty expensive, and so the thought of breaking my lease, relocating again etc would be financially very difficult and hard to stomach. WIth savings, I can realistically live here another 3-4 months before I would need a loan and/or parental help. It really sucks though, and I'm still shellshocked, if anyone has any advice on my best shot to land something decent in the area. Think NY/NJ/Philly/DE/Connecticut/MA area. Any advice would be appreciated, feeling really really low right now.

I dont have any advice for you bro

Just wanted to say I'm sorry

That's a harrowing story and a tough situation


Yeah, I've gotta say, I've had some pretty low moments, but that was definitely one of my lowest. I'm really, really hoping that NYC firms/anywhere offering legal positions in NYC that would be willing just because at least I'm bar qualified in the jurisdiction

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Asking for some help here. Graduated from a lower T14 school, class of 2013, working for a smaller to midsize firm in the Northeast, and got fired today for lack of fit after about 5 months. What it really came down to was the firm doesn't usually hire entry level, and it seems realized they don't want to take the time to do any sort of training and expected the kind of results usually expected of a more experienced attorney. Was given a month to find something new so buys me a little time to job hunt. Have passed the NY bar, so I'm guessing my best bet is to pursue opportunities there. While I wouldn't mind leaving the area, I relocated here because of this job and it was pretty expensive, and so the thought of breaking my lease, relocating again etc would be financially very difficult and hard to stomach. WIth savings, I can realistically live here another 3-4 months before I would need a loan and/or parental help. It really sucks though, and I'm still shellshocked, if anyone has any advice on my best shot to land something decent in the area. Think NY/NJ/Philly/DE/Connecticut/MA area. Any advice would be appreciated, feeling really really low right now.

I dont have any advice for you bro

Just wanted to say I'm sorry

That's a harrowing story and a tough situation


Yeah, I've gotta say, I've had some pretty low moments, but that was definitely one of my lowest. I'm really, really hoping that NYC firms/anywhere offering legal positions in NYC that would be willing just because at least I'm bar qualified in the jurisdiction

One thing I'd say is consider leaving the firm off your resume

Being there for 5 months raises red flags

If there's someone you trust at the firm who's willing to go to bat for you and say it's about money issues or something like that that'd be good

Because right now it's too easy for new employers thing you were canned bc you suck at the job

User avatar
worldtraveler
Posts: 7667
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:47 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:03 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Asking for some help here. Graduated from a lower T14 school, class of 2013, working for a smaller to midsize firm in the Northeast, and got fired today for lack of fit after about 5 months. What it really came down to was the firm doesn't usually hire entry level, and it seems realized they don't want to take the time to do any sort of training and expected the kind of results usually expected of a more experienced attorney. Was given a month to find something new so buys me a little time to job hunt. Have passed the NY bar, so I'm guessing my best bet is to pursue opportunities there. While I wouldn't mind leaving the area, I relocated here because of this job and it was pretty expensive, and so the thought of breaking my lease, relocating again etc would be financially very difficult and hard to stomach. WIth savings, I can realistically live here another 3-4 months before I would need a loan and/or parental help. It really sucks though, and I'm still shellshocked, if anyone has any advice on my best shot to land something decent in the area. Think NY/NJ/Philly/DE/Connecticut/MA area. Any advice would be appreciated, feeling really really low right now.

I dont have any advice for you bro

Just wanted to say I'm sorry

That's a harrowing story and a tough situation


Yeah, I've gotta say, I've had some pretty low moments, but that was definitely one of my lowest. I'm really, really hoping that NYC firms/anywhere offering legal positions in NYC that would be willing just because at least I'm bar qualified in the jurisdiction

One thing I'd say is consider leaving the firm off your resume

Being there for 5 months raises red flags

If there's someone you trust at the firm who's willing to go to bat for you and say it's about money issues or something like that that'd be good

Because right now it's too easy for new employers thing you were canned bc you suck at the job


This is perhaps slightly dishonest but could you call yourself a law fellow on your resume instead of a lawyer? People do short term fellowships all the time and a 5-6 month one won't raise red flags.

But otherwise I agree with rad and try your best to find someone there who would be a good reference for you.

I'm sorry because that really sucks.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:15 pm

If you get a reference there they need to say something like they don't have money or something like that

If they just talk you up and say you're the best thing ever it's gonna raise the Q "if he's so rad why is he leaving after 5 months"

If you can't get a reference I'd probably lean towards leaving it off the resume

Anonymous User
Posts: 273382
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:19 pm

This is perhaps slightly dishonest but could you call yourself a law fellow on your resume instead of a lawyer? People do short term fellowships all the time and a 5-6 month one won't raise red flags.

But otherwise I agree with rad and try your best to find someone there who would be a good reference for you.

I'm sorry because that really sucks.[/quote]

I was told the firm would do what they can/within their resources to help me land another position, and there are a few partners I had good relationships who I think would definitely be willing to give me a good reference, I'm hoping that'll help me. I'm still just sort of in shock, because I was in the vale for so long and landed the job so close to graduation, and now it's back to the job search. Part of me thinks I'm almost in a worse position with 5 months experience then getting fired than graduating unemployed and doing a fellowship or just nothing and applying to jobs during those 5 months. Kind of feel like I'm in no man's land on this one

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I was told the firm would do what they can/within their resources to help me land another position, and there are a few partners I had good relationships who I think would definitely be willing to give me a good reference, I'm hoping that'll help me. I'm still just sort of in shock, because I was in the vale for so long and landed the job so close to graduation, and now it's back to the job search. Part of me thinks I'm almost in a worse position with 5 months experience then getting fired than graduating unemployed and doing a fellowship or just nothing and applying to jobs during those 5 months. Kind of feel like I'm in no man's land on this one

You're in no mans lands; it's like Latham did back in the day

Bob effin Dell'd

it sucks bro, but to the extent you an you have to put that behind you and keep on trucking

User avatar
happy187
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:43 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby happy187 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:27 am

sparty99 wrote:
Just chill out. This is clearly your first full-time job. Not every job is going to be roses. The "do what you love mantra" is old and tired. Learn to like your job. You have only been there four months. This is a forum for people who are unemployed, who don't have the luxury of a paycheck. You have that. You are meeting with politicians at fundraisers. Who knows what doors that can open. None of these decisions are "life changing." You make decisions every day of your career. What you decide today, can be different from what you decide three years from now. Just go with the damn flow. If you truly don't like your job, then find a new one. If you can't get a new job now, then just be patient and do the most that you can in your current position.


I have to agree with this. In most businesses you get very little training, especially the more responsibility you are given, welcome to the real world.

sparty99
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:Asking for some help here. Graduated from a lower T14 school, class of 2013, working for a smaller to midsize firm in the Northeast, and got fired today for lack of fit after about 5 months. What it really came down to was the firm doesn't usually hire entry level, and it seems realized they don't want to take the time to do any sort of training and expected the kind of results usually expected of a more experienced attorney. Was given a month to find something new so buys me a little time to job hunt. Have passed the NY bar, so I'm guessing my best bet is to pursue opportunities there. While I wouldn't mind leaving the area, I relocated here because of this job and it was pretty expensive, and so the thought of breaking my lease, relocating again etc would be financially very difficult and hard to stomach. WIth savings, I can realistically live here another 3-4 months before I would need a loan and/or parental help. It really sucks though, and I'm still shellshocked, if anyone has any advice on my best shot to land something decent in the area. Think NY/NJ/Philly/DE/Connecticut/MA area. Any advice would be appreciated, feeling really really low right now.


This happened to my co-worker in my pre-law consulting job. He got canned after 12 months. Kept the firm on the resume and landed a new gig a couple of months later. Said he left the firm due to layoffs as a result of the recession. Reference wasn't a big deal because he used HR's contact info and it was firm policy to give only dates of employment and salary.

However, in your situation, I would try to find at least one person who would go to bat for you. Ask if you can use them as a reference. Ask them what they would say about your performance and your departure. Perhaps have a friend call the firm, pretending they are a reference to see what feedback they give. There is also firms that do this. If not satisfactory, you can say it was a temporary position or just leave it off altogether. You are now no different then someone who graduated without a job. People will understand this. It's a tough market. However, they will also wonder what you have been doing between now and graduation so you must come up with an answer that doesn't make you look lazy if you decide to keep this off your resume. Make sure you apply for unemployment immediately. NJ is hiring law clerks for tax courts. They are looking for immediate hires. Also, there is a PA firm hiring that was posted a page back or so.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273382
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:35 am

any idea how to lateral from my corporate counsel gig? 2013 grad here.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:36 am

m
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
snowpeach06
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:58 am

rad lulz wrote:Just chill out. This is clearly your first full-time job. Not every job is going to be roses. The "do what you love mantra" is old and tired. Learn to like your job. You have only been there four months. This is a forum for people who are unemployed, who don't have the luxury of a paycheck. You have that. You are meeting with politicians at fundraisers. Who knows what doors that can open. None of these decisions are "life changing." You make decisions every day of your career. What you decide today, can be different from what you decide three years from now. Just go with the damn flow. If you truly don't like your job, then find a new one. If you can't get a new job now, then just be patient and do the most that you can in your current position.
I sorta agree w sparty actually

It's fine to keep looking

But I'd stick with it a little while longer

4 months is not that much time

And there really is an infinite difference between people w one job and people ITT w no job

First off all, I want to say that I really don't believe that "the do what you love mantra is old and tired." I think it's extremely important to do what you love.

That said, even though it's only been four months, I am almost positive that my organization is a sinking ship. We have crazy money problems, and we'll be lucky to stay afloat for another year. Since this job is mostly unrelated to what i want to do, it's not going to advance my career at all. However, my initial panic has died down, and I'm going to try to make the best of this job while I'm here. I really do appreciate getting a pay check. That said, the job hunt continues for me, and I'll probably apply to anything (even press jobs) and see what comes of it.

And to anonymous guy: So sorry! I agree that if you could get your firm to change your title to law clerk or fellow, it would be really beneficial. If you get lucky and get an interview while you are still there, you might be able to say that you were looking for a change. Otherwise maybe just say the truth - the firm did not want to invest in training, but they liked your work, just simply wanted someone with more experience? It does sound reasonable.

User avatar
worldtraveler
Posts: 7667
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:47 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:31 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Just chill out. This is clearly your first full-time job. Not every job is going to be roses. The "do what you love mantra" is old and tired. Learn to like your job. You have only been there four months. This is a forum for people who are unemployed, who don't have the luxury of a paycheck. You have that. You are meeting with politicians at fundraisers. Who knows what doors that can open. None of these decisions are "life changing." You make decisions every day of your career. What you decide today, can be different from what you decide three years from now. Just go with the damn flow. If you truly don't like your job, then find a new one. If you can't get a new job now, then just be patient and do the most that you can in your current position.
I sorta agree w sparty actually

It's fine to keep looking

But I'd stick with it a little while longer

4 months is not that much time

And there really is an infinite difference between people w one job and people ITT w no job

First off all, I want to say that I really don't believe that "the do what you love mantra is old and tired." I think it's extremely important to do what you love.

That said, even though it's only been four months, I am almost positive that my organization is a sinking ship. We have crazy money problems, and we'll be lucky to stay afloat for another year. Since this job is mostly unrelated to what i want to do, it's not going to advance my career at all. However, my initial panic has died down, and I'm going to try to make the best of this job while I'm here. I really do appreciate getting a pay check. That said, the job hunt continues for me, and I'll probably apply to anything (even press jobs) and see what comes of it.

And to anonymous guy: So sorry! I agree that if you could get your firm to change your title to law clerk or fellow, it would be really beneficial. If you get lucky and get an interview while you are still there, you might be able to say that you were looking for a change. Otherwise maybe just say the truth - the firm did not want to invest in training, but they liked your work, just simply wanted someone with more experience? It does sound reasonable.


Can you use your extra time at work to do something to bolster your resume, like write some articles? If you really have very little to do you could just advance your own interests while collecting a paycheck for a while.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273382
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:52 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Just chill out. This is clearly your first full-time job. Not every job is going to be roses. The "do what you love mantra" is old and tired. Learn to like your job. You have only been there four months. This is a forum for people who are unemployed, who don't have the luxury of a paycheck. You have that. You are meeting with politicians at fundraisers. Who knows what doors that can open. None of these decisions are "life changing." You make decisions every day of your career. What you decide today, can be different from what you decide three years from now. Just go with the damn flow. If you truly don't like your job, then find a new one. If you can't get a new job now, then just be patient and do the most that you can in your current position.
I sorta agree w sparty actually

It's fine to keep looking

But I'd stick with it a little while longer

4 months is not that much time

And there really is an infinite difference between people w one job and people ITT w no job

First off all, I want to say that I really don't believe that "the do what you love mantra is old and tired." I think it's extremely important to do what you love.

That said, even though it's only been four months, I am almost positive that my organization is a sinking ship. We have crazy money problems, and we'll be lucky to stay afloat for another year. Since this job is mostly unrelated to what i want to do, it's not going to advance my career at all. However, my initial panic has died down, and I'm going to try to make the best of this job while I'm here. I really do appreciate getting a pay check. That said, the job hunt continues for me, and I'll probably apply to anything (even press jobs) and see what comes of it.

And to anonymous guy: So sorry! I agree that if you could get your firm to change your title to law clerk or fellow, it would be really beneficial. If you get lucky and get an interview while you are still there, you might be able to say that you were looking for a change. Otherwise maybe just say the truth - the firm did not want to invest in training, but they liked your work, just simply wanted someone with more experience? It does sound reasonable.


Thank you, much appreciated. And that's a great idea actually, because at least then it might look like its a 6 month fellowship that's ending and that I'm seeking a new, permanent legal position, although if they aren't willing to do that, what you said as well about the training and them wanting more experience could also be fine in an interview. I feel you on that job search now though, it's weird to finally have landed a job, felt I was doing reasonably well, getting a paycheck, and now it's back on not just to the job search but one with a very very time sensitive deadline, with a far more geographically limited scope after relocation costs that I can't really afford to go through again, and trying to avoid looking like a red flag when pursuing another legal position.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.