The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:17 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Dinged at a BigLaw firm that was hiring without an interview. I had multiple contacts there and fit the practice needs. What the fuck does it take to get a job as a 3L?

/rant


1. Talent

2. Persistence

3. Most importantly, though: LUCK.

Keep doing the first 2 and eventually the 3rd will hit.


Thanks! I've got the first two down but jesus this is shitty. At least I'm in a good mental/social space.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Dinged at a BigLaw firm that was hiring without an interview. I had multiple contacts there and fit the practice needs. What the fuck does it take to get a job as a 3L?

/rant


1. Talent

2. Persistence

3. Most importantly, though: LUCK.

Keep doing the first 2 and eventually the 3rd will hit.


Thanks! I've got the first two down but jesus this is shitty. At least I'm in a good mental/social space.


It's a bit weird that they were hiring w/out an interview. That seems to indicate to me that someone was pre-selected for the position, which is even more out of your control.

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worldtraveler
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Dinged at a BigLaw firm that was hiring without an interview. I had multiple contacts there and fit the practice needs. What the fuck does it take to get a job as a 3L?

/rant


1. Talent

2. Persistence

3. Most importantly, though: LUCK.

Keep doing the first 2 and eventually the 3rd will hit.


Thanks! I've got the first two down but jesus this is shitty. At least I'm in a good mental/social space.


It's a bit weird that they were hiring w/out an interview. That seems to indicate to me that someone was pre-selected for the position, which is even more out of your control.


I think the poster meant they were rejected without even having an interview, not that the firm was hiring without one.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:43 pm

Hi all,

I'm the anon 2013 grad who posted a couple pages back about a few prospects I had brewing: A big firm, a company, and a small firm. Well, I have an offer now from the small firm, around 50k with very good benefits and reevaluating salary after six months. I'm immensely relieved and grateful to know I'm out of the Vale if I want to be. I asked for a week to talk to my family and mentors and they were totally fine with that. And I did let the other employers know I had an offer that I was seriously considering with a week to decide. In fact, I got another interview this week from a fourth employer, a boutique-ish commercial lit firm that would probably pay better than the small firm I currently have an offer from, although the cultural vibe I got is not as good. As for the big firm, the recruiter there told me that they were actually having some initial hiring discussions today, so I'm not rejected yet, and she would let them know my situation. I'm glad I decided to let them know about my other offer. First, I think it could possibly make me a more appealing candidate to have another offer. Second, even if I get a no from the big firm, I think I'll be more at peace knowing one way or the other. When I do start at this small firm I want to do so having made peace with it, even excited about it and ready to make the most of it.

If I had to read the tea leaves I don't think another offer is coming my way, but we'll see what the next week brings. Waiting to hear back from from jobs with an offer in hand feels infinitely better than waiting for any offer. If I go with the small firm, my thinking right now is just to work as hard as possible, learn as much as possible, and take advantage of getting out there and networking as a practicing attorney. That will be a nice change. Starting at a small firm in a practice area I enjoy might mean being more entrepreneurial than I ever wanted to be, but I by no means feel like my career is over before it's even began and I'm ready to make the most of things. I'll do IBR for now and get other aspects of my family's financial health (a small amount of private debt, savings, etc.) in good shape for the next year or two, then see where I am and come up with a plan to deal with the debt in the long term.

I'll report back if I get more good news, but just wanted to share a small bright spot for now. Hope everyone is hanging in there!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:29 pm

Congrats!

NYstate
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all,

I'm the anon 2013 grad who posted a couple pages back about a few prospects I had brewing: A big firm, a company, and a small firm. Well, I have an offer now from the small firm, around 50k with very good benefits and reevaluating salary after six months. I'm immensely relieved and grateful to know I'm out of the Vale if I want to be. I asked for a week to talk to my family and mentors and they were totally fine with that. And I did let the other employers know I had an offer that I was seriously considering with a week to decide. In fact, I got another interview this week from a fourth employer, a boutique-ish commercial lit firm that would probably pay better than the small firm I currently have an offer from, although the cultural vibe I got is not as good. As for the big firm, the recruiter there told me that they were actually having some initial hiring discussions today, so I'm not rejected yet, and she would let them know my situation. I'm glad I decided to let them know about my other offer. First, I think it could possibly make me a more appealing candidate to have another offer. Second, even if I get a no from the big firm, I think I'll be more at peace knowing one way or the other. When I do start at this small firm I want to do so having made peace with it, even excited about it and ready to make the most of it.

If I had to read the tea leaves I don't think another offer is coming my way, but we'll see what the next week brings. Waiting to hear back from from jobs with an offer in hand feels infinitely better than waiting for any offer. If I go with the small firm, my thinking right now is just to work as hard as possible, learn as much as possible, and take advantage of getting out there and networking as a practicing attorney. That will be a nice change. Starting at a small firm in a practice area I enjoy might mean being more entrepreneurial than I ever wanted to be, but I by no means feel like my career is over before it's even began and I'm ready to make the most of things. I'll do IBR for now and get other aspects of my family's financial health (a small amount of private debt, savings, etc.) in good shape for the next year or two, then see where I am and come up with a plan to deal with the debt in the long term.

I'll report back if I get more good news, but just wanted to share a small bright spot for now. Hope everyone is hanging in there!


Great job. Good luck with everything. I think a week was the perfect amount of time to ask for. Congrats!

jaydizzle
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jaydizzle » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:10 pm

PMF interview on Monday. I am really really nervous. This is one of the only opportunities I have floating around. I hope I can make the finalist stage!

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all,

I'm the anon 2013 grad who posted a couple pages back about a few prospects I had brewing: A big firm, a company, and a small firm. Well, I have an offer now from the small firm, around 50k with very good benefits and reevaluating salary after six months. I'm immensely relieved and grateful to know I'm out of the Vale if I want to be. I asked for a week to talk to my family and mentors and they were totally fine with that. And I did let the other employers know I had an offer that I was seriously considering with a week to decide. In fact, I got another interview this week from a fourth employer, a boutique-ish commercial lit firm that would probably pay better than the small firm I currently have an offer from, although the cultural vibe I got is not as good. As for the big firm, the recruiter there told me that they were actually having some initial hiring discussions today, so I'm not rejected yet, and she would let them know my situation. I'm glad I decided to let them know about my other offer. First, I think it could possibly make me a more appealing candidate to have another offer. Second, even if I get a no from the big firm, I think I'll be more at peace knowing one way or the other. When I do start at this small firm I want to do so having made peace with it, even excited about it and ready to make the most of it.

If I had to read the tea leaves I don't think another offer is coming my way, but we'll see what the next week brings. Waiting to hear back from from jobs with an offer in hand feels infinitely better than waiting for any offer. If I go with the small firm, my thinking right now is just to work as hard as possible, learn as much as possible, and take advantage of getting out there and networking as a practicing attorney. That will be a nice change. Starting at a small firm in a practice area I enjoy might mean being more entrepreneurial than I ever wanted to be, but I by no means feel like my career is over before it's even began and I'm ready to make the most of things. I'll do IBR for now and get other aspects of my family's financial health (a small amount of private debt, savings, etc.) in good shape for the next year or two, then see where I am and come up with a plan to deal with the debt in the long term.

I'll report back if I get more good news, but just wanted to share a small bright spot for now. Hope everyone is hanging in there!

Really happy for you anon that's badass

buddingjd
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby buddingjd » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:53 pm

does working for an estate planning boutique (wealth transfer tax type) upon graduation lend itself to any exit options if I can't stand it 3 years in?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:38 pm

FUCK, this is why you should never look at something after you submit. I applied to basically my ideal position through symplicity and the listing didn't have a name to address cover letters to, but somehow I missed it on the application portion. I addressed the cover letter generically to the hiring manager rather than the woman's name. -___-

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:12 pm

JenDarby wrote:FUCK, this is why you should never look at something after you submit. I applied to basically my ideal position through symplicity and the listing didn't have a name to address cover letters to, but somehow I missed it on the application portion. I addressed the cover letter generically to the hiring manager rather than the woman's name. -___-


I really don't think they will care, unless it's an ego maniac.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:43 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
JenDarby wrote:FUCK, this is why you should never look at something after you submit. I applied to basically my ideal position through symplicity and the listing didn't have a name to address cover letters to, but somehow I missed it on the application portion. I addressed the cover letter generically to the hiring manager rather than the woman's name. -___-


I really don't think they will care, unless it's an ego maniac.

I hope that's the case. I figured an applicant who can't follow one simple directive might not look that appealing.

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JCougar
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JCougar » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:52 pm

JenDarby wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
JenDarby wrote:FUCK, this is why you should never look at something after you submit. I applied to basically my ideal position through symplicity and the listing didn't have a name to address cover letters to, but somehow I missed it on the application portion. I addressed the cover letter generically to the hiring manager rather than the woman's name. -___-


I really don't think they will care, unless it's an ego maniac.

I hope that's the case. I figured an applicant who can't follow one simple directive might not look that appealing.


Anyone who would rule you out as a candidate for something like that probably shouldn't be on the hiring committee.

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worldtraveler
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:57 pm

JenDarby wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
JenDarby wrote:FUCK, this is why you should never look at something after you submit. I applied to basically my ideal position through symplicity and the listing didn't have a name to address cover letters to, but somehow I missed it on the application portion. I addressed the cover letter generically to the hiring manager rather than the woman's name. -___-


I really don't think they will care, unless it's an ego maniac.

I hope that's the case. I figured an applicant who can't follow one simple directive might not look that appealing.


They post that more for the applicant's sanity and to fend off annoying questions, I think. I just revised a job posting for summer interns because we just had the email contact, and I had 20 emails from 1Ls about OMG I DON'T KNOW WHO TO ADDRESS THE COVER LETTER TO. Now it has the name just so people will stop asking and submit their stuff.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:41 pm

Wade Clark Mulcahy

Position: Associate

WCM is seeking a new associate to start immediately, either on a part time or full time basis.

Philadelphia office of regional litigation law firm seeks lawyer admitted in PA and preferably NJ as well. Work will include contract analysis, motion work, document review and court appearances. Applicant can be full or part-time.

Salary range $22/hour, DOE, for part-time and $70,000, DOE, for full time work.


Position Type
Part-time Experienced, Full-time Experienced
Location(s)
City
Philadelphia
State/Province
Pennsylvania
Country
United States
Compensation Details
Salary range $22/hour, DOE, for part-time and $70,000, DOE, for full time work.
Contact Information
Employer: Wade Clark Mulcahy (Philadelphia, PA)
Name: Hiring Coordinator
E-mail: kcaldwell@wcmlaw.com
Address: 1515 Market St., Ste 2050
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
19102

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby salcmh » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:18 pm

Congrats to the anon poster with the job offer.

To the person contemplating suicide, hang in there. As everyone here has said, suicide is not the answer. It really does get better. I'm still thinking of you and hoping you are okay. Post an update. I know things will start looking up.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:36 pm

I don't even know where you guys are finding open positions.

I can't find more than 1 or 2 openings a month in SF/LA, and the ones I do find are either terrible fits for my resume or just plain terrible in general.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:01 am

So I ruminated about jobs for no special reason tonight. Employers want candidates who are experienced. Makes sense.

But then it raises the question: How do you convince a lawyer to invest in you (the person with 0-1 year experience, generally speaking)? Why would someone want to hire someone who doesn't know jack?

I'm having one of those confidence droughts. I'd especially like any thoughts from those who recently escaped the Vale.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:28 am

a male human wrote:So I ruminated about jobs for no special reason tonight. Employers want candidates who are experienced. Makes sense.

But then it raises the question: How do you convince a lawyer to invest in you (the person with 0-1 year experience, generally speaking)? Why would someone want to hire someone who doesn't know jack?

I'm having one of those confidence droughts. I'd especially like any thoughts from those who recently escaped the Vale.

The thing is, you probably do know something that will be useful. At my office, I've been asked to handle a few cases based on some subject area experience I had pre-law school--nothing major, but just enough to understand the basic mechanics and terms. I've also found that the doctrinal classes I took in my practice area are actually not useless, and I know more about a few recent developments in the law than some of the older attorneys in my office because of it. I'm also the only person in my office who doesn't need to call IT to do basic things on the computer, and so I get assigned every case with any technology aspect to it.

If you paid attention and worked hard during your summers and law school, you have something you can bring to the table.


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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:09 pm

mr. wednesday wrote:
a male human wrote:So I ruminated about jobs for no special reason tonight. Employers want candidates who are experienced. Makes sense.

But then it raises the question: How do you convince a lawyer to invest in you (the person with 0-1 year experience, generally speaking)? Why would someone want to hire someone who doesn't know jack?

I'm having one of those confidence droughts. I'd especially like any thoughts from those who recently escaped the Vale.

The thing is, you probably do know something that will be useful. At my office, I've been asked to handle a few cases based on some subject area experience I had pre-law school--nothing major, but just enough to understand the basic mechanics and terms. I've also found that the doctrinal classes I took in my practice area are actually not useless, and I know more about a few recent developments in the law than some of the older attorneys in my office because of it. I'm also the only person in my office who doesn't need to call IT to do basic things on the computer, and so I get assigned every case with any technology aspect to it.

If you paid attention and worked hard during your summers and law school, you have something you can bring to the table.


This. AMH and others in the super-vale, just do what you can. That's how I'm getting up everyday. At my law school funded fellowship/NALP employment gaming activity, I do a fair amount of grunt work on the same issues of law. Since I'm seeing the same issues from different angles, I'm actually becoming somewhat of an expert on a small area of crim law. I may seek to publish something on this small area of law.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:12 pm

this one goes out to all the PA barred Valers:
Staff Attorney - PULP

share
Job Category: Attorney/Paralegal
Location: Dauphin
Pennsylvania Utility Law Project

The Pennsylvania Utility Law Project (PULP) is seeking an attorney who desires to make a significant contribution to the well-being of low-income households.

Located in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, PULP is administered by Regional Housing Legal Services (RHLS) and is the designated state-wide utility advocacy project of the Pennsylvania Legal Aid Network. On behalf of its low-income clients, PULP regularly participates in legislative and administrative proceedings affecting low-income utility consumers, and provides co-counsel, support, training, and technical assistance in utility and energy matters to locally based legal aid programs, community groups, and non-profit agencies. PULP also regularly works with RHLS on projects which seek to expand access to affordable shelter and its component parts such as affordable utility services and weatherization.

The successful candidate should have a demonstrated commitment to providing quality legal services to low-income individuals and the ability to develop and work on projects which seek to advance utility affordability and housing sustainability for lower income persons/communities. Prior legal aid/low-income advocacy experience is preferred. Prior experience with utility and housing law and/or advocacy before administrative agencies is also preferred, but not essential.

Salary depends on experience. An excellent benefits package is provided. To apply, please send a letter of interest and resume to:

Patrick M. Cicero, Co-Director
Pennsylvania Utility Law Project
118 Locust Street
Harrisburg, PA 17101
pulp@palegalaid.net

Applications by e-mail are preferred. Applications will be accepted until the position is filled.

PULP/RHLS is an Equal Opportunity Employer. People of color, persons who are bi-cultural, bi-lingual, women, and persons with disabilities are encouraged to apply.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:02 pm

While I have a job right now, it's just not what I want. So I've been starting to look again for policy oriented jobs, and all the issues I had while in the vale are just flooding back. I'm over or under qualified for most jobs. My four months of work experience don't really change that. I know I shouldn't complain, because at least I get a paycheck right now, but I'm just so frustrated. Moreover, I know exactly where i want my career to go (I want to do government relations for a non-profit in one of a limited number of issue areas) but so few jobs actually lead there. I'm having a hard time deciding if I should do whatever I can to get out of my current job (I think staying here will make me go insane), or wait for one of the three jobs which could get me there. And then of course, hope I could get one of them. It's so rough knowing you need to make life changing decisions fresh out of school.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:44 pm

Are there any biglaw firms still hiring for the fall? I'm kind of leaning back towards going for biglaw after debating it for a while with myself and my family. Being no offered out of left field from a top firm made me want to re-evaluate my circumstances especially with recruiters calling for compliance positions at banks that pay biglaw starting salaries with much better hours due to my background (and the recent emphasis on compliance due to big fines at J.P. Morgan etc.)

I just feel that after going through law school and all the pain that entailed, I shouldn't close off being a lawyer as an option right away and I did enjoy the work when I summered, even though I was billing a ton of hours as a summer. Its pretty late to get into the search I understand, so I'm trying to figure out where to start, or whether I should just start mass mailing every market paying firm.

Also, when I do targeted mailing, I feel like it takes away from my chances if I mail about multiple practices but I am flexible among several practice areas (that aren't closely related but all generate a lot of work for big law) due to a rather diverse working background before the law.

Anyone have any advice? I'm having a bit of trouble because it seems most firms hiring now don't pay market, and in that case, going in house seems like a better option.

Basically, I'm sort of in the vale because I have high paying options outside of purely legal positions but I don't want to close off career options too early.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are there any biglaw firms still hiring for the fall? I'm kind of leaning back towards going for biglaw after debating it for a while with myself and my family. Being no offered out of left field from a top firm made me want to re-evaluate my circumstances especially with recruiters calling for compliance positions at banks that pay biglaw starting salaries with much better hours due to my background (and the recent emphasis on compliance due to big fines at J.P. Morgan etc.)

I just feel that after going through law school and all the pain that entailed, I shouldn't close off being a lawyer as an option right away and I did enjoy the work when I summered, even though I was billing a ton of hours as a summer. Its pretty late to get into the search I understand, so I'm trying to figure out where to start, or whether I should just start mass mailing every market paying firm.

Also, when I do targeted mailing, I feel like it takes away from my chances if I mail about multiple practices but I am flexible among several practice areas (that aren't closely related but all generate a lot of work for big law) due to a rather diverse working background before the law.

Anyone have any advice? I'm having a bit of trouble because it seems most firms hiring now don't pay market, and in that case, going in house seems like a better option.

Basically, I'm sort of in the vale because I have high paying options outside of purely legal positions but I don't want to close off career options too early.


Ugh...really? You really wrote this?




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