The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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jessuf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:45 pm

I guess I'm going to give up on PD stuff for the time being. I just signed up to take the CA bar since time was running out to sign up in various states, and I already applied to every PD office in CA.

So is now the time to start mass mailing firms or should I wait a little bit?

Also, did anyone work during bar study? If so, how did you find your position? I would love to work part time this summer.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:53 pm

Many of us 2013ers don't check this thread like we used to, Jessuf.

I can tell you that I did not work while bar prepping. I was too scared that I would fail if I didn't put all my effort into the bar.

Looking back, I might have been able to do PT work if I was more disciplined about my studies. A bunch of my time was wasted on trivial shit like trying to make flash cards that I didn't use or other busy work ventures. I also took a fair amount of days off from studying, for whatever reason. I still passed my UBE state just fine.

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jessuf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:02 pm

Bikeflip wrote:Many of us 2013ers don't check this thread like we used to, Jessuf.

I can tell you that I did not work while bar prepping. I was too scared that I would fail if I didn't put all my effort into the bar.

Looking back, I might have been able to do PT work if I was more disciplined about my studies. A bunch of my time was wasted on trivial shit like trying to make flash cards that I didn't use or other busy work ventures. I also took a fair amount of days off from studying, for whatever reason. I still passed my UBE state just fine.

How much time would you say you spent on bar prep? I'm done with school/finals on 4/29. I was thinking if I started studying immediately while also working 20 hours a week, I'd be okay? I know someone who worked full time and passed the bar, but he was an extreme gunner and never once took a day off or did anything social.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:12 pm

Jessuf wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:Many of us 2013ers don't check this thread like we used to, Jessuf.

I can tell you that I did not work while bar prepping. I was too scared that I would fail if I didn't put all my effort into the bar.

Looking back, I might have been able to do PT work if I was more disciplined about my studies. A bunch of my time was wasted on trivial shit like trying to make flash cards that I didn't use or other busy work ventures. I also took a fair amount of days off from studying, for whatever reason. I still passed my UBE state just fine.

How much time would you say you spent on bar prep? I'm done with school/finals on 4/29. I was thinking if I started studying immediately while also working 20 hours a week, I'd be okay? I know someone who worked full time and passed the bar, but he was an extreme gunner and never once took a day off or did anything social.


I passed my MBE state and basically followed the BarBri plan as close to the letter as I could handle. I took two and a half days off over the whole period (half day for my cousin's wedding, July 4, and then the day before the bar) and studied like a mofo most of the time. I did go out to meet friends to eat (most also doing bar study) and I worked out almost every day but I don't know how anyone works and keeps their sanity for that.

I made flash cards and it turned out the process of making them was what helped me learn the things, so even if it felt like busywork it was helpful.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JuTMSY4 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:19 pm

Jessuf wrote:Also, did anyone work during bar study? If so, how did you find your position? I would love to work part time this summer.


I worked part time for the firm I worked for during 2L. I also worked their during 3L year. I wouldn't have worked except for the fact that they were very forgiving of my bar prep and gave me 2 weeks off before the exam. I only worked 2-3 days a week (more in June than July).

I bar prepped 2-3 full weekdays, all day saturday and half days on sunday. I also prepped after work for about 3-4 hours. My girlfriend was incredibly supportive and I rarely had to cook thanks to her.

Good luck. I also got hired during bar prep thanks to mass mailings I sent out in February. So chin up and hang in their!

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:06 pm

Jessuf wrote:How much time would you say you spent on bar prep? I'm done with school/finals on 4/29. I was thinking if I started studying immediately while also working 20 hours a week, I'd be okay? I know someone who worked full time and passed the bar, but he was an extreme gunner and never once took a day off or did anything social.



I think a 20 hr/wk PT jerb is fine, so long as you can be disciplined about your prep, and you take the final 2-3 weeks off.

For me, I started around Memorial Day. When I did prep, I put in 8 hours or so a day in. However, much of that early prep was wasted on what amounted to busy work* for me. Even with my dicking around with busy work, I probably put in 30-35 solid hours a week over 7 days. So between 4 and 5 hours of good prep a day. I put in more time in July, and by the final 2 weeks, I was putting in a solid 8-12 hrs a day, because by then I was so stressed about everything.

*Like Pretz and others may demonstrate, what is busy work for one person is the ideal method for another. So long as you get the material in your head, it doesn't matter if you keep condensing an 80 page outline until it's 5 pages, make flashcards, write rule statements over and over again, or something else. Just know you don't have to do all those things; I found condensing outlines and reviewing them was the best method for me.

However, I wouldn't call practice questions and their review busy work. That's where you learn the test's nuances.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JCougar » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:29 pm

Jessuf wrote:I guess I'm going to give up on PD stuff for the time being. I just signed up to take the CA bar since time was running out to sign up in various states, and I already applied to every PD office in CA.

So is now the time to start mass mailing firms or should I wait a little bit?

Also, did anyone work during bar study? If so, how did you find your position? I would love to work part time this summer.


I clerked for an ALJ during the summer I studied for the bar, but I took three weeks off before the bar exam to prepare. Those were basically the only three weeks I studied. I came back after the bar exam...it was a good way to kill time while waiting for my results. Also, I think it was a good career move, since it was a good thing to put on my resume. They wanted to hire me, but were unable to do so due to the sequester and a resulting hiring freeze. Nevertheless, I made some connections there, and should have a spot if the freeze ever gets lifted.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:49 pm

Jessuf wrote:I guess I'm going to give up on PD stuff for the time being. I just signed up to take the CA bar since time was running out to sign up in various states, and I already applied to every PD office in CA.

So is now the time to start mass mailing firms or should I wait a little bit?

Also, did anyone work during bar study? If so, how did you find your position? I would love to work part time this summer.


1. There are some states that allow unbarred PDs. Nevada has a special license for PI government work as long as you're barred in ANY state. Alaska has a "10 month rule" where as long as you pass their bar within 10 months of starting your job you'll be fine (A friend of mine actually did this and is working at the Alaska PD office now). I believe one of the Dakotas has something similar.

2. I would say more than 15 is pushing it and more than 20 hours is crazy. I know a person who worked during bar prep and failed the bar. I don't wanna be that person. I spent around 8 hours a day 6 days a week studying for the bar. If I was pulling a 6+ hour shift before studying my brain would have been fried by the end of week 1. You can absolutely work, but be realistic about the hours. Don't get the "If I push hard I can do it!" mentality. Everyone can and will burnout.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:06 pm

You're all scaring me. I have a work-from-home job for a firm that I do like 10 hours a week. I will just keep that. That just means I won't be able to do a fancy bar review program because I would rather save my money to pay for life.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:13 pm

Jessuf wrote:You're all scaring me. I have a work-from-home job for a firm that I do like 10 hours a week. I will just keep that. That just means I won't be able to do a fancy bar review program because I would rather save my money to pay for life.

10 hrs/week is probably fine

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:54 pm

Jessuf wrote:You're all scaring me. I have a work-from-home job for a firm that I do like 10 hours a week. I will just keep that. That just means I won't be able to do a fancy bar review program because I would rather save my money to pay for life.


You don't really need Barbri

Also, DAT BAR LOAN (ugh, MOAR debt).

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jessuf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:21 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
Jessuf wrote:You're all scaring me. I have a work-from-home job for a firm that I do like 10 hours a week. I will just keep that. That just means I won't be able to do a fancy bar review program because I would rather save my money to pay for life.


You don't really need Barbri

Also, DAT BAR LOAN (ugh, MOAR debt).

ooh tyty. I will look over that thread.

Also, I refuse to do a bar loan bc I already have pre-LS debt like car loan, etc. I can't afford a bar loan ATM since it's not LRAP friendly. :cry:

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hiima3L » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:36 pm

Jessuf wrote:I guess I'm going to give up on PD stuff for the time being. I just signed up to take the CA bar since time was running out to sign up in various states, and I already applied to every PD office in CA.

So is now the time to start mass mailing firms or should I wait a little bit?

Also, did anyone work during bar study? If so, how did you find your position? I would love to work part time this summer.


If you want to be a PD in CA, you will have to intern there, then be a post-bar clerk, then cross your fingers there is $ to hire you.

I have a few friends who are PDs in CA, and they all were summer interns both summers then unpaid post-bar clerks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:43 pm

Jessuf wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:
Jessuf wrote:You're all scaring me. I have a work-from-home job for a firm that I do like 10 hours a week. I will just keep that. That just means I won't be able to do a fancy bar review program because I would rather save my money to pay for life.


You don't really need Barbri

Also, DAT BAR LOAN (ugh, MOAR debt).

ooh tyty. I will look over that thread.

Also, I refuse to do a bar loan bc I already have pre-LS debt like car loan, etc. I can't afford a bar loan ATM since it's not LRAP friendly. :cry:



I need to update that thread, but between that thread's reviews and links, you should be able to get some idea of which programs are worth it. Many people thought BarBri was severely overpriced; it's like $4,000 for California. You can cop DAT THEMIS for a grand, either from negotiating a discount or through their public service discount.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JCougar » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:54 pm

For bar study, I just bought the Kaplan books from some dude on eBay for like $300. Everyone who shelled out $3000 for the course told me they wished they would have just gone my route. I don't think the lectures really add a lot. You have to read and memorize the material in the study books...that's the bottom line. Some people might not feel comfortable going this route, but I highly reccomend it. Everything you need to know for the bar exam is in the study books. It's basically just memorizing the black letter law. The only subjects I had trouble with were Commercial Paper and Secured Transactions (I didn't study those in school, and they're a bit complex). But for these, I just found some free lectures on YouTube that I listened to, and I was fine. Honestly, I feel like paying $3000 for a bar prep class is a rip-off capitalizing on law graduates insecurities.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:12 pm

I'm glad I did Barbri despite the cost in part because a bunch of my friends did it so I actually got to see friends on an almost-daily basis in class. Particularly the first time in where I had no clue what I was doing, getting spoonfed assignments was comforting (and then I was able to figure out what was BS and what was actually helpful). More than anything making sure I did at least 30 MBE questions a day and a few practice essays daily was the best thing I did. Helps keep your brain in shape for the real deal, and then when I actually took it I didn't feel like death. (Okay, I did after the MBE, but that was day two.)

If I took a second bar, which if I don't have a job by February I probably will, I'll self-study for it. But for the first round, I have absolutely no regrets about surrendering virtually everything to study my brains out to pass. Even if that meant a little extra debt.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:46 pm

Bros above, Imma add your reviews to my bar thread, unless you or the mods tell me not to.

Pretzel_Logic wrote:More than anything making sure I did at least 30 MBE questions a day and a few practice essays daily was the best thing I did.


That's key, IMO.


Pretzel_Logic wrote:If I took a second bar, which if I don't have a job by February I probably will, I'll self-study for it. But for the first round, I have absolutely no regrets about surrendering virtually everything to study my brains out to pass. Even if that meant a little extra debt.


Would you need to retake the MBE? To me, that'd make the second bar TSO MUCH EASIER.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:48 pm

JCougar wrote:For bar study, I just bought the Kaplan books from some dude on eBay for like $300. Everyone who shelled out $3000 for the course told me they wished they would have just gone my route. I don't think the lectures really add a lot. You have to read and memorize the material in the study books...that's the bottom line. Some people might not feel comfortable going this route, but I highly reccomend it. Everything you need to know for the bar exam is in the study books. It's basically just memorizing the black letter law. The only subjects I had trouble with were Commercial Paper and Secured Transactions (I didn't study those in school, and they're a bit complex). But for these, I just found some free lectures on YouTube that I listened to, and I was fine. Honestly, I feel like paying $3000 for a bar prep class is a rip-off capitalizing on law graduates insecurities.


This is all you really need. I did Themis for $1000 for NY, and passed the Feb 2013 exam fine (which tested on some of the more obscure stuff like RAP and corporate duty of care). Once you get the basics of how to write passable bar essays (essentially, just write a simplified IRAC), it's all about memorizing the majority of the MBE black letter, and then the big state specific areas. Other than the one class, I didn't spend any time studying for the MPT, which I pulled out of my ass and didn't "finish". What also helped me was some doc some friends of mine found from another bar review course that gave canned answers to almost every tested essay topic from NY. The main thing bar review courses offer are the books, and a structure to keep you disciplined. I didn't work during bar prep, but I didn't lock myself away either. I was going to the hospital two mornings a week plus crossfit several times a week, and some socializing here and there to keep myself sane.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:03 pm

Bikeflip wrote:Would you need to retake the MBE? To me, that'd make the second bar TSO MUCH EASIER.


Unfortunately, yes. The state(s) I'm considering don't take other state's passing scores. :evil: Because essays are whatever, I have those on lock. But the MBE can die in a fire.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Crash32 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:32 pm

Can someone give me an idea on how to put my clinic experience on my resume? Would this go in the employment section or in the student activities section w/ LR? I am leaning towards the employment section so that I can list the substantive things I did, which are relevant to a few jobs I am applying for.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:43 pm

Crash32 wrote:Can someone give me an idea on how to put my clinic experience on my resume? Would this go in the employment section or in the student activities section w/ LR? I am leaning towards the employment section so that I can list the substantive things I did, which are relevant to a few jobs I am applying for.


I put mine under "Experience" which includes jobs, intern/externships, and my clinics.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:45 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Crash32 wrote:Can someone give me an idea on how to put my clinic experience on my resume? Would this go in the employment section or in the student activities section w/ LR? I am leaning towards the employment section so that I can list the substantive things I did, which are relevant to a few jobs I am applying for.


I put mine under "Experience" which includes jobs, intern/externships, and my clinics.

This

Crash32
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Crash32 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:57 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Crash32 wrote:Can someone give me an idea on how to put my clinic experience on my resume? Would this go in the employment section or in the student activities section w/ LR? I am leaning towards the employment section so that I can list the substantive things I did, which are relevant to a few jobs I am applying for.


I put mine under "Experience" which includes jobs, intern/externships, and my clinics.


Thanks, this is what I will do

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:50 pm

Dinged at a BigLaw firm that was hiring without an interview. I had multiple contacts there and fit the practice needs. What the fuck does it take to get a job as a 3L?

/rant

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Dinged at a BigLaw firm that was hiring without an interview. I had multiple contacts there and fit the practice needs. What the fuck does it take to get a job as a 3L?

/rant


1. Talent

2. Persistence

3. Most importantly, though: LUCK.

Keep doing the first 2 and eventually the 3rd will hit.




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