The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:50 pm

legalese_retard wrote:Does anyone have access to an updated username/password for the BYU employment website? The jobfind/EmployUs combo no longer works.

PM'd

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:24 pm

2013 grad, newly licensed Valer here. I have an interview at a small office of a 200-some attorney regional firm here for an associate position coming up this week. I haven't had an interview for a semi-biglaw firm in months. It could mean amazing work experience and, with bonuses, close to 100k in my dream city (a very affordable city). I am in the position a lot of people have expressed, feeling a bit downtrodden. If anyone has any advice on what worked to make you feel confident and together on interview day, I would greatly appreciate hearing it. I would also like to hear how people have responded to comments and questions from interviewers like "It's brutal out there, isn't it?" and "So how is the job search going?" I try to answer those questions briefly and positively in interviews, but it always feels awkward. Thanks!

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hichvichwoh
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby hichvichwoh » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2013 grad, newly licensed Valer here. I have an interview at a small office of a 200-some attorney regional firm here for an associate position coming up this week. I haven't had an interview for a semi-biglaw firm in months. It could mean amazing work experience and, with bonuses, close to 100k in my dream city (a very affordable city). I am in the position a lot of people have expressed, feeling a bit downtrodden. If anyone has any advice on what worked to make you feel confident and together on interview day, I would greatly appreciate hearing it. I would also like to hear how people have responded to comments and questions from interviewers like "It's brutal out there, isn't it?" and "So how is the job search going?" I try to answer those questions briefly and positively in interviews, but it always feels awkward. Thanks!


Project positivity and optimism. Yes, it's a terrible situation, but complaining about it is an easy way to make a terrible impression. Something like, acknowledging that it's a tough market, but that there's nothing for you to do but keep your head up and keep moving forward.

user outed for anon abuse (even though the post is positive/helpful)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2013 grad, newly licensed Valer here. I have an interview at a small office of a 200-some attorney regional firm here for an associate position coming up this week. I haven't had an interview for a semi-biglaw firm in months. It could mean amazing work experience and, with bonuses, close to 100k in my dream city (a very affordable city). I am in the position a lot of people have expressed, feeling a bit downtrodden. If anyone has any advice on what worked to make you feel confident and together on interview day, I would greatly appreciate hearing it. I would also like to hear how people have responded to comments and questions from interviewers like "It's brutal out there, isn't it?" and "So how is the job search going?" I try to answer those questions briefly and positively in interviews, but it always feels awkward. Thanks!


Project positivity and optimism. Yes, it's a terrible situation, but complaining about it is an easy way to make a terrible impression. Something like, acknowledging that it's a tough market, but that there's nothing for you to do but keep your head up and keep moving forward.


This x1,000. The interviewers will know the market sucks, and they're either making awful small talk (who talks about the shitty market, really), or they want to see how you're handling the adversity (which sucks, but law is full of adversity). You'll do yourself no favors if you dwell on this question or if you come across as a pessimist/defeatist. No one likes to be around a Negative Nancy, after all. At the same time, don't come across as too optimistic; you might come across as clueless as to how bad the jerb market is. When I get this question, I acknowledge it's a bad market, say what I'm doing to find work, and move on.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2013 grad, newly licensed Valer here. I have an interview at a small office of a 200-some attorney regional firm here for an associate position coming up this week. I haven't had an interview for a semi-biglaw firm in months. It could mean amazing work experience and, with bonuses, close to 100k in my dream city (a very affordable city). I am in the position a lot of people have expressed, feeling a bit downtrodden. If anyone has any advice on what worked to make you feel confident and together on interview day, I would greatly appreciate hearing it. I would also like to hear how people have responded to comments and questions from interviewers like "It's brutal out there, isn't it?" and "So how is the job search going?" I try to answer those questions briefly and positively in interviews, but it always feels awkward. Thanks!


Mind indicating which state this is in? Or which state the firms' HQ is in?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Mind indicating which state this is in? Or which state the firms' HQ is in?


Anonymous User wrote:Project positivity and optimism. Yes, it's a terrible situation, but complaining about it is an easy way to make a terrible impression. Something like, acknowledging that it's a tough market, but that there's nothing for you to do but keep your head up and keep moving forward.


Both of these are anon abuse.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:52 pm

Is it weird that I don't mind Negative Nancies if I'm in a more fortunate position? Makes me want to help.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lolwat » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:2013 grad, newly licensed Valer here. I have an interview at a small office of a 200-some attorney regional firm here for an associate position coming up this week. I haven't had an interview for a semi-biglaw firm in months. It could mean amazing work experience and, with bonuses, close to 100k in my dream city (a very affordable city). I am in the position a lot of people have expressed, feeling a bit downtrodden. If anyone has any advice on what worked to make you feel confident and together on interview day, I would greatly appreciate hearing it. I would also like to hear how people have responded to comments and questions from interviewers like "It's brutal out there, isn't it?" and "So how is the job search going?" I try to answer those questions briefly and positively in interviews, but it always feels awkward. Thanks!


I stay away from extreme negativity (and certain really "bad" responses) but I stopped caring a little while ago about having theoretically perfect responses to everything. I did so much better my last several interviews (offer from one, would have gotten an offer from several others if not for reasons unrelated to my credentials/interviewing skills) after I stopped trying to be overly prepared about everything.

All you probably need to say here is like "Yeah, it's pretty terrible all around. But I'm glad I'm interviewing here and hopefully I'll get an offer. :D"

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Gainfully Unemployed » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:20 am

Can anyone give me advice on how to work a contact? I've been awful on the networking front, and it's definitely one of my weaknesses. I'm a 3L at a school in a school with no connection whatsoever to my home state, and I'd like to move home after school. I'm going back home for the holidays, and my dad came up with a friend of a friend contact. He keeps telling me that this guy is expecting my call, but I'm pretty sure he has no idea what he's talking about (special snowflake syndrome by-proxy sort of thing).

This contact is an attorney at a fairly large firm in the city where I want to work, so I want to make sure I use him correctly and avoid projecting a "please get me a job" sort of attitude. Should I start by sending an email or calling? Is coffee an alright way to start building a relationship?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby worldtraveler » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:28 am

Gainfully Unemployed wrote:Can anyone give me advice on how to work a contact? I've been awful on the networking front, and it's definitely one of my weaknesses. I'm a 3L at a school in a school with no connection whatsoever to my home state, and I'd like to move home after school. I'm going back home for the holidays, and my dad came up with a friend of a friend contact. He keeps telling me that this guy is expecting my call, but I'm pretty sure he has no idea what he's talking about (special snowflake syndrome by-proxy sort of thing).

This contact is an attorney at a fairly large firm in the city where I want to work, so I want to make sure I use him correctly and avoid projecting a "please get me a job" sort of attitude. Should I start by sending an email or calling? Is coffee an alright way to start building a relationship?


Send an email and say you'd like to get together to meet him and learn if he has any advice for you. People generally love getting asked for advice because it makes them feel important. If you feel awkward, go for email over the phone because pretty much everyone sounds awkward on the phone.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Gainfully Unemployed » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:15 pm

go for email over the phone because pretty much everyone sounds awkward on the phone.


That's what I'm worried about. I also don't want to call him out of nowhere and put him on the spot. Thank you!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby fish tacos » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:Does anyone have access to an updated username/password for the BYU employment website? The jobfind/EmployUs combo no longer works.

PM'd


Care to PM me as well to help out another Valer? Thanks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:46 pm

fish tacos wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:Does anyone have access to an updated username/password for the BYU employment website? The jobfind/EmployUs combo no longer works.

PM'd


Care to PM me as well to help out another Valer? Thanks.

Done.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lolwat » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:55 pm

Gainfully Unemployed wrote:This contact is an attorney at a fairly large firm in the city where I want to work, so I want to make sure I use him correctly and avoid projecting a "please get me a job" sort of attitude. Should I start by sending an email or calling? Is coffee an alright way to start building a relationship?


I would email. Especially if this guy knows you're going to contact him (not necessarily "expecting your call" but knows about you through your dad). Your email likely won't be ignored/missed and if he really prefers a phone call, he'll just email you back saying "call me." Plus if your email does fall through the cracks you can call a week later or something.

Coffee is definitely a good way to start building a relationship.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:06 pm

fish tacos wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:Does anyone have access to an updated username/password for the BYU employment website? The jobfind/EmployUs combo no longer works.

PM'd


Care to PM me as well to help out another Valer? Thanks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:57 pm

had a screener interview last week that ended, "i'll set up a second interview for you with senior counsel." rejected via email today without a word. rood. :x

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby yung » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:45 am

Bikeflip wrote:
fish tacos wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:Does anyone have access to an updated username/password for the BYU employment website? The jobfind/EmployUs combo no longer works.

PM'd


Care to PM me as well to help out another Valer? Thanks.


May I also get the combo? Thank you!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jess » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:27 pm

My school partners up with area law schools every year to have a big PI job fair in January. I did PI OCI through my school back in September and was talking with someone from OCS about how a lot of the PI people seemed really disinterested in me from the get-go despite selecting my resume for an interview. The OCS person crowed about how many more employers come to the big job fair and how so many people get full-time jobs out of it. She rattled off some names that interested me. Employers were just listed, and I just checked.



......only 4 people interviewing for post-grad jobs, 3/4 of which I've already applied to and been rejected. :|

$$$$$$
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby $$$$$$ » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2013 grad, newly licensed Valer here. I have an interview at a small office of a 200-some attorney regional firm here for an associate position coming up this week. I haven't had an interview for a semi-biglaw firm in months. It could mean amazing work experience and, with bonuses, close to 100k in my dream city (a very affordable city). I am in the position a lot of people have expressed, feeling a bit downtrodden. If anyone has any advice on what worked to make you feel confident and together on interview day, I would greatly appreciate hearing it. I would also like to hear how people have responded to comments and questions from interviewers like "It's brutal out there, isn't it?" and "So how is the job search going?" I try to answer those questions briefly and positively in interviews, but it always feels awkward. Thanks!


Project positivity and optimism. Yes, it's a terrible situation, but complaining about it is an easy way to make a terrible impression. Something like, acknowledging that it's a tough market, but that there's nothing for you to do but keep your head up and keep moving forward.



It's all about confidence. Honestly, what changed for me was realizing I have all this debt, and no job, but that my problems are things that can be solved instantly with an offer, whereas most people on this planet have way worse problems than me. This is the time of your life you should enjoy, worrying about mortgages, kids, college payments, death, are things that are real. Worrying about getting your first job out of law school its just stupid. If you convey that sort of humility and confidence you'll be fine, but you have to actually believe it.

If people ask you about the market all you say is that it is a challenge, but that you've learned a lot about yourself and developed new skills to move forward with in your career, like networking, maintaining relationships, figuring out what you want to do, etc. Just be real and you'll be fine and its a mature answer because you never know what can happen tomorrow.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:26 pm

If someone wants to send me the BYU PW, I'll put it in the OP.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lwoods » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:32 pm

Gainfully Unemployed wrote:Can anyone give me advice on how to work a contact? I've been awful on the networking front, and it's definitely one of my weaknesses. I'm a 3L at a school in a school with no connection whatsoever to my home state, and I'd like to move home after school. I'm going back home for the holidays, and my dad came up with a friend of a friend contact. He keeps telling me that this guy is expecting my call, but I'm pretty sure he has no idea what he's talking about (special snowflake syndrome by-proxy sort of thing).

This contact is an attorney at a fairly large firm in the city where I want to work, so I want to make sure I use him correctly and avoid projecting a "please get me a job" sort of attitude. Should I start by sending an email or calling? Is coffee an alright way to start building a relationship?


Tip: When you email, put "referred by [dad's friend's name]" as the subject.

This is a great way to network. Hope it goes well!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jaydizzle » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:45 pm

TTH wrote:If someone wants to send me the BYU PW, I'll put it in the OP.


I'd like it as well

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:46 pm

jaydizzle wrote:
TTH wrote:If someone wants to send me the BYU PW, I'll put it in the OP.


I'd like it as well

As the PMer, I direct you all to the OP, where it is now permanently and prominently displayed.

jaydizzle
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jaydizzle » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
jaydizzle wrote:
TTH wrote:If someone wants to send me the BYU PW, I'll put it in the OP.


I'd like it as well

As the PMer, I direct you all to the OP, where it is now permanently and prominently displayed.


Ah, ok. Thanks!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:51 am

chrisbru wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Mind indicating which state this is in? Or which state the firms' HQ is in?


Anonymous User wrote:Project positivity and optimism. Yes, it's a terrible situation, but complaining about it is an easy way to make a terrible impression. Something like, acknowledging that it's a tough market, but that there's nothing for you to do but keep your head up and keep moving forward.


Both of these are anon abuse.

This is true. However, a quick reminder - if you see anon abuse, please don't comment on it in the thread, just report it by clicking the red exclamation point in the bottom right of the post. Thanks.




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