The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:49 pm

rad lulz wrote:
deadpanic wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Just got an email for a callback interview over dinner next week with my top choice firm. I feel like I need to go do some sprints outside or something cause of the adrenaline running through me right now. Here is to hoping the madness ends here.


Prayers, thoughts, and wishes for luck all heading your way bro.


Same from me. Really rooting for you.


You can do it. Fingers crossed.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys, after ~25 fruitless interviews since 3L started, I finally got my offer letter today from the PI government organization of my dreams (something I've been talking about since 1L, keeping it purposefully vague just to be safe). Keep at it. You can do it.


Congrats!

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northwood
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby northwood » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:38 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Just got an email for a callback interview over dinner next week with my top choice firm. I feel like I need to go do some sprints outside or something cause of the adrenaline running through me right now. Here is to hoping the madness ends here.



really hope it goes well for you buddy, Rooting and praying hard for you!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:12 pm

how long would you guys wait to call someone back again after having already left a message?

interviewed with this place, they called and left a message, i called back and left a message. no contact since. been about 24 hours.

my instinct is call again, nobody is going to care but im an unemployed 3L so ive decided to stop trusting my instinct when it comes to job. would really like to speak with them before the weekend.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:how long would you guys wait to call someone back again after having already left a message?

interviewed with this place, they called and left a message, i called back and left a message. no contact since. been about 24 hours.

my instinct is call again, nobody is going to care but im an unemployed 3L so ive decided to stop trusting my instinct when it comes to job. would really like to speak with them before the weekend.

Welp. The weekend has come. I hope you didn't call again because that would seem too desperate. Call Monday after lunch if you still haven't heard and say something like, "Sorry we keep missing each other."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:40 pm

Jessuf wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:how long would you guys wait to call someone back again after having already left a message?

interviewed with this place, they called and left a message, i called back and left a message. no contact since. been about 24 hours.

my instinct is call again, nobody is going to care but im an unemployed 3L so ive decided to stop trusting my instinct when it comes to job. would really like to speak with them before the weekend.

Welp. The weekend has come. I hope you didn't call again because that would seem too desperate. Call Monday after lunch if you still haven't heard and say something like, "Sorry we keep missing each other."


thanks for the response. i ended up calling and apparently the message was never passed on from the day before. out of the vale for now. hopefully nothing goes wrong from here on out.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Jessuf wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:how long would you guys wait to call someone back again after having already left a message?

interviewed with this place, they called and left a message, i called back and left a message. no contact since. been about 24 hours.

my instinct is call again, nobody is going to care but im an unemployed 3L so ive decided to stop trusting my instinct when it comes to job. would really like to speak with them before the weekend.

Welp. The weekend has come. I hope you didn't call again because that would seem too desperate. Call Monday after lunch if you still haven't heard and say something like, "Sorry we keep missing each other."


thanks for the response. i ended up calling and apparently the message was never passed on from the day before. out of the vale for now. hopefully nothing goes wrong from here on out.


Out is out. Congrats breh.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:26 am

Bikeflip wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Jessuf wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:how long would you guys wait to call someone back again after having already left a message?

interviewed with this place, they called and left a message, i called back and left a message. no contact since. been about 24 hours.

my instinct is call again, nobody is going to care but im an unemployed 3L so ive decided to stop trusting my instinct when it comes to job. would really like to speak with them before the weekend.

Welp. The weekend has come. I hope you didn't call again because that would seem too desperate. Call Monday after lunch if you still haven't heard and say something like, "Sorry we keep missing each other."


thanks for the response. i ended up calling and apparently the message was never passed on from the day before. out of the vale for now. hopefully nothing goes wrong from here on out.


Out is out. Congrats breh.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:49 am

Well, I found out today that nearly 40% of our class has accepted full-time offers. Since I'm top third, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I can't study, I can't get anything done in clinic, I'm just... defeated. Gotta pick myself up, I guess, but this didn't help... The most disappointed kind of response from family friend attorney contacts, which is almost every kind that I get:

Chrisbru,

You have an outstanding resume! In my limited experience with hiring, law firms really like to see attorneys with some life and work experience prior to law school, which you have. I would start truly emphasizing your finance background if you are not already. It distinguishes you from about 90% of the attorneys I’ve met and it will actually be useful wherever you start out.

Have you tried some of the big [hometown] firms like [firm that only hires from Harvard/Yale] or [firm that hires from T14 or top 10% of school I go to only]? You should also try [big firm] in [nearby city] as well as [other big firms that have already rejected me because I'm not top 15%] in [smaller city nearby] - if you are interested in living any of those places. These firms never seem to openly recruit, but they have big business law practices and would probably appreciate your undergrad degree and prior work experience. It’s worth calling the person listed on their recruiting pages if you haven’t already. And, just as a general note, if anyone tells you they aren’t hiring new associates, you should at least mention your position at [Fortune 50 company] and your finance degree. It makes you a little more like a lateral hire, which I think firms are always interested in. If you decide to apply any of these places, let me know and I’ll attempt to find a contact.

A judicial clerkship is always helpful to get your foot in the door as well. I suggested the [Clerkship I attached] because it has several judges who graduated from [my school], but a clerkship anywhere would be fine. I know the Court of Appeals and state Supreme Court just have an open call for resumes instead of posting (or at least that was the case when I was in law school). If that’s still the case, they might not receive many applications from [your school], so it would be worth submitting your resume through that process as well. Target judges who graduated from [your school]. You could also apply to clerk for a court in the [federal CoA that we're in]. Here’s the website for that: https://oscar.uscourts.gov and I attached the posting for the [nearby] clerkship so you know where to send things.

Again, if you apply anywhere in [these group of states] let me know. I can’t promise I’ll know someone, but I’m glad to check. Please don’t hesitate to contact me if there’s anything else I can do to help.


I don't even know what to say back:

"Thank you for the note. I applied to every one of those firms you mentioned and was rejected without an interview, despite having a close family friend in hiring at one of them. I've applied also to every other firm with > 10 attorneys in those cities, and even made it to THREE rounds of interviews with one, only to have them select someone with a lower GPA than me and no firm experience and someone who has only ever worked as a prosecuting intern. I've been rejected from every district court clerkship I've applied to, and don't have much hope for the one you suggested, but I already sent my application in for that one so I guess its out of my hands. I appreciate your confidence in my ability to even be remotely competitive for state CoA, state SC, and even (LOL) federal CoA clerkships, but its been communicated to us, very clearly, that if you aren't in the top 25% with A's in all your legal writing courses then don't even bother. I've actually applied to several jobs that I technically qualified for when I graduated undergrad, but being that my work experience ended 3 years ago and my undergrad GPA was barely a 3.0, I've been auto-dinged from every one of those positions as well. Except for one, who brought me in for two interviews, said they'd be in touch before Thanksgiving, and have been silent ever since except for a brief acknowledgment from the HR person that she'd "check on it," Oh, I have a lead in a town of about 8,000 though, so there's that. But I was supposed to hear yesterday, and haven't heard anything, so I can only assume they've offered someone else.

So, let me put this to you directly—I need a job, and nothing I've done is working. Please PLEASE call me the minute you hear of someone that is hiring."


I never thought that the most humiliating and defeating part of law school would be the job search.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:15 pm

One of the shittiest things about being a Valer is the unsolicited family support. Much (most) of my family support comes across like yours, bru. All I say in such situations would be something short, vague, and non-offensive like "I appreciate your willingness to help me in this difficult job market. It looks like we've have similar job-search strategies, and I'll keep you updated as to how things are going."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:45 pm

Sorry bro.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:46 pm

Bikeflip wrote:One of the shittiest things about being a Valer is the unsolicited family support. Much (most) of my family support comes across like yours, bru. All I say in such situations would be something short, vague, and non-offensive like "I appreciate your willingness to help me in this difficult job market. It looks like we've have similar job-search strategies, and I'll keep you updated as to how things are going."


I like that. I'm going to start using that.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:13 pm

Ok, so I haven't done enough. I know I could have done more to find work, but I got blindsided by a no offer in mid-September (awesomely late for soooo many applications) and complete shock set in. I have had one interview, where they offered the job to someone else, but they said they were considering me for another position that they wouldn't know hiring for until January (so at least there is that). I don't really have an excuse, I keep telling myself that school/ LR work just took over, but I am still just in complete shock about the no offer and I am just completely frozen in the job hunt. I have absolutely no clue what to do. Career services doesn't help with anything, except being super nice and saying things like "people in a position like yours (T15%, LR editor) find work, so there is no need to panic." Well, if you can't tell, I am panicking. I've sent out a few mass (if you can call them that) emails, applied to clerkships w/ state judges, and applied for most things on simplicity even remotely in the realm of things I would do.

I guess my big question (and everyone's on this board) has mutiple parts: 1) Am I boned and have almost no shot at finding a job? 2) Is there a method to becoming un-boned? 3) Will I ever be an attorney? 4) Did I make a terrible mistake coming to law school, even though I love this terrible crap? 5) Is a Tax LLM at one of the big 2 worth it if I am sorta big law material based on grades/ LR (in case things don't pan out)?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I guess my big question (and everyone's on this board) has mutiple parts: 1) Am I boned and have almost no shot at finding a job? 2) Is there a method to becoming un-boned? 3) Will I ever be an attorney? 4) Did I make a terrible mistake coming to law school, even though I love this terrible crap? 5) Is a Tax LLM at one of the big 2 worth it if I am sorta big law material based on grades/ LR (in case things don't pan out)?



1-3: No one really can tell you if you're boned or not. I'm a class of 2013 barred Valer, and all I can do is keep applying, volunteering, and networking. You're still in school, which may be a positive. A fair amount of people you meet won't expect you to have anything lined up from their understanding of the market, some nostalgic notions about how the market used to be, or something else.

4: You may have made a mistake, but it's a sunk cost. Look ahead, not back. You can change your future.

5: Dunno. I'd keep this option open, but I can't be more helpful.

Most importantly, realize you're not alone in the jerb hunt. It can be beyond depressing to think you're the only person going through this. If no one at skool or home can relate to you, you always have the Vale to vent in.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:35 pm

chrisbru wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:One of the shittiest things about being a Valer is the unsolicited family support. Much (most) of my family support comes across like yours, bru. All I say in such situations would be something short, vague, and non-offensive like "I appreciate your willingness to help me in this difficult job market. It looks like we've have similar job-search strategies, and I'll keep you updated as to how things are going."


I like that. I'm going to start using that.


Try Polaris HR. I don't know what they have for openings but they have a huge staffing shortage atm for a lot of their positions and they're hiring like 300 more in the Boji area for a plant expansion. I don't know if they have openings in the management / legal areas.

Pure Fishing may have something in management but I believe they sold out to Jarden for like $300mm. Their owner/ceo was a 74ish Iowa Law drop out.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:23 pm

typ3 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:One of the shittiest things about being a Valer is the unsolicited family support. Much (most) of my family support comes across like yours, bru. All I say in such situations would be something short, vague, and non-offensive like "I appreciate your willingness to help me in this difficult job market. It looks like we've have similar job-search strategies, and I'll keep you updated as to how things are going."


I like that. I'm going to start using that.


Try Polaris HR. I don't know what they have for openings but they have a huge staffing shortage atm for a lot of their positions and they're hiring like 300 more in the Boji area for a plant expansion. I don't know if they have openings in the management / legal areas.

Pure Fishing may have something in management but I believe they sold out to Jarden for like $300mm. Their owner/ceo was a 74ish Iowa Law drop out.


I'll look more into this if I can't find something in law or consulting by graduation. At this point, I'm not ready to give up on doing something that I (think) I actually want to do.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:19 pm

chrisbru wrote:Well, I found out today that nearly 40% of our class has accepted full-time offers. Since I'm top third, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I can't study, I can't get anything done in clinic, I'm just... defeated. Gotta pick myself up, I guess, but this didn't help... The most disappointed kind of response from family friend attorney contacts, which is almost every kind that I get:

Chrisbru,

You have an outstanding resume! In my limited experience with hiring, law firms really like to see attorneys with some life and work experience prior to law school, which you have. I would start truly emphasizing your finance background if you are not already. It distinguishes you from about 90% of the attorneys I’ve met and it will actually be useful wherever you start out.

Have you tried some of the big [hometown] firms like [firm that only hires from Harvard/Yale] or [firm that hires from T14 or top 10% of school I go to only]? You should also try [big firm] in [nearby city] as well as [other big firms that have already rejected me because I'm not top 15%] in [smaller city nearby] - if you are interested in living any of those places. These firms never seem to openly recruit, but they have big business law practices and would probably appreciate your undergrad degree and prior work experience. It’s worth calling the person listed on their recruiting pages if you haven’t already. And, just as a general note, if anyone tells you they aren’t hiring new associates, you should at least mention your position at [Fortune 50 company] and your finance degree. It makes you a little more like a lateral hire, which I think firms are always interested in. If you decide to apply any of these places, let me know and I’ll attempt to find a contact.

A judicial clerkship is always helpful to get your foot in the door as well. I suggested the [Clerkship I attached] because it has several judges who graduated from [my school], but a clerkship anywhere would be fine. I know the Court of Appeals and state Supreme Court just have an open call for resumes instead of posting (or at least that was the case when I was in law school). If that’s still the case, they might not receive many applications from [your school], so it would be worth submitting your resume through that process as well. Target judges who graduated from [your school]. You could also apply to clerk for a court in the [federal CoA that we're in]. Here’s the website for that: https://oscar.uscourts.gov and I attached the posting for the [nearby] clerkship so you know where to send things.

Again, if you apply anywhere in [these group of states] let me know. I can’t promise I’ll know someone, but I’m glad to check. Please don’t hesitate to contact me if there’s anything else I can do to help.


I don't even know what to say back:

"Thank you for the note. I applied to every one of those firms you mentioned and was rejected without an interview, despite having a close family friend in hiring at one of them. I've applied also to every other firm with > 10 attorneys in those cities, and even made it to THREE rounds of interviews with one, only to have them select someone with a lower GPA than me and no firm experience and someone who has only ever worked as a prosecuting intern. I've been rejected from every district court clerkship I've applied to, and don't have much hope for the one you suggested, but I already sent my application in for that one so I guess its out of my hands. I appreciate your confidence in my ability to even be remotely competitive for state CoA, state SC, and even (LOL) federal CoA clerkships, but its been communicated to us, very clearly, that if you aren't in the top 25% with A's in all your legal writing courses then don't even bother. I've actually applied to several jobs that I technically qualified for when I graduated undergrad, but being that my work experience ended 3 years ago and my undergrad GPA was barely a 3.0, I've been auto-dinged from every one of those positions as well. Except for one, who brought me in for two interviews, said they'd be in touch before Thanksgiving, and have been silent ever since except for a brief acknowledgment from the HR person that she'd "check on it," Oh, I have a lead in a town of about 8,000 though, so there's that. But I was supposed to hear yesterday, and haven't heard anything, so I can only assume they've offered someone else.

So, let me put this to you directly—I need a job, and nothing I've done is working. Please PLEASE call me the minute you hear of someone that is hiring."


I never thought that the most humiliating and defeating part of law school would be the job search.


Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Get a gym membership and start getting into working out and lifting weights. Go see a movie every day of the week for seven days....

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:51 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Get a gym membership and start getting into working out and lifting weights. Go see a movie every day of the week for seven days....


Haven't you learned that I don't want your advice?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:58 pm

chrisbru wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Get a gym membership and start getting into working out and lifting weights. Go see a movie every day of the week for seven days....


Haven't you learned that I don't want your advice?

If it's true, you could probably say "thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I've already applies at most of those places and haven't received an offer. If you hear of any other openings, please let me know."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:45 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Get a gym membership and start getting into working out and lifting weights. Go see a movie every day of the week for seven days....


Haven't you learned that I don't want your advice?

If it's true, you could probably say "thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I've already applies at most of those places and haven't received an offer. If you hear of any other openings, please let me know."


The only reason I hesitated in saying something like that was it can lead itself directly to this question: "Why haven't you gotten an offer yet?" That's gonna be awkward for everyone. Plus, it kinda sounds a bit defeatist. Still, it's good and honest response; I'd just tweak it a bit:

"thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I've already applied at most of those places and haven't received an offer., but if you hear of any other openings, please let me know."

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:40 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:If it's true, you could probably say "thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I've already applies at most of those places and haven't received an offer. If you hear of any other openings, please let me know."


The only reason I hesitated in saying something like that was it can lead itself directly to this question: "Why haven't you gotten an offer yet?" That's gonna be awkward for everyone. Plus, it kinda sounds a bit defeatist. Still, it's good and honest response; I'd just tweak it a bit:

"thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I've already applied at most of those places and haven't received an offer., but if you hear of any other openings, please let me know."


Since she's a close family friend (she used to babysit me), I told her that the firms she mentioned have grade cutoffs higher than mine, but that I'd love it if she would let me know of anything else she hears of.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:51 pm

Ah. Gotcha. One thing I've noticed is that people are not as willing to help me when I'm negative, but if they know how the game is played, then that is different. I pay closer attention to phrasing as a result.

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typ3
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:52 am

Bikeflip wrote:Ah. Gotcha. One thing I've noticed is that people are not as willing to help me when I'm negative, but if they know how the game is played, then that is different. I pay closer attention to phrasing as a result.


Most people don't know how to help. When people who are out of work and looking for a job are negative it freaks people out because it forces them to look at their own situation and analyze it. People don't like having to think outside of their normal routine and herd like mentality. No one likes to acknowledge that the market and economy can flatten people and businesses on their ass and it does it all the time. Being negative makes people think about the insecurities and unpredictability of life.
Last edited by typ3 on Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:57 am

Bikeflip wrote:Ah. Gotcha. One thing I've noticed is that people are not as willing to help me when I'm negative, but if they know how the game is played, then that is different. I pay closer attention to phrasing as a result.


I do the same thing usually.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bailey123456789 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:00 am

Hi all,

I haven't posted in this thread before, but it has been really helpful to read it and feel like I wasn't alone in this terrible job search. As of today, I am out of the Vale, and I wanted to share my story in case it helps anyone. I had been doing the informational interview thing during 3L year and then resumed after taking the bar/waiting for results. I applied to job postings when they would come up, but nothing came of them. No success with mass mailing. But through a chain of referrals from one attorney to another, starting with someone I met with back in the fall of last year, I ended up meeting with a partner at a firm that did exactly what I wanted to do. She happened to have a need, and they brought me on. So sometimes the whole networking/informational interview thing can work out, even though I often felt like I was wasting my time doing them because I had so little to show for it. So if this is an approach your taking, stick with it, because it can definitely pay off. Thanks to everyone who posts in this awesome thread; it has been hugely helpful over these many months of hunting.

Good luck to everyone still looking.




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