The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Dr. Review
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dr. Review » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:26 am

BarbellDreams wrote:you actually may apply for another position 204 years down the road at the same firm
Seems like a long time to wait to reapply.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:08 am

So what's the best way to go about getting into a career in criminal defense? I can't get any criminal defense firms to respond for the life of me.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:31 am

chrisbru wrote:So what's the best way to go about getting into a career in criminal defense? I can't get any criminal defense firms to respond for the life of me.


If you're still in school I'd spend the last semester volunteering at your local PDs office. You'll learn a lot cause they are so short staffed they let law clerks do EVERYTHING and you'll make a lot of connections. Many of the PDs at the office I worked at for a bit were volunteers who got the job after volunteering during school and through bar results.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:43 am

chrisbru wrote:So what's the best way to go about getting into a career in criminal defense? I can't get any criminal defense firms to respond for the life of me.

I haven't seen a lot of criminal defense firms hire students/newbies - they're usually fairly small and don't have time to train. I think they tend to hire former DAs/PDs. (But this is a gut reaction based on where I've been in the country - not claiming universal gospel here.)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:08 pm

chrisbru wrote:So what's the best way to go about getting into a career in criminal defense? I can't get any criminal defense firms to respond for the life of me.

Start at the PD or DA

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JazzOne » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:14 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
chrisbru wrote:So what's the best way to go about getting into a career in criminal defense? I can't get any criminal defense firms to respond for the life of me.

I haven't seen a lot of criminal defense firms hire students/newbies - they're usually fairly small and don't have time to train. I think they tend to hire former DAs/PDs. (But this is a gut reaction based on where I've been in the country - not claiming universal gospel here.)

Most of the criminal defense attorneys I know started their careers in prosecution.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:33 pm

JazzOne wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
chrisbru wrote:So what's the best way to go about getting into a career in criminal defense? I can't get any criminal defense firms to respond for the life of me.

I haven't seen a lot of criminal defense firms hire students/newbies - they're usually fairly small and don't have time to train. I think they tend to hire former DAs/PDs. (But this is a gut reaction based on where I've been in the country - not claiming universal gospel here.)

Most of the criminal defense attorneys I know started their careers in prosecution.

Yeah, I've seen this a lot, too (if we're talking about private criminal defense folks. I went to law school in a true believer state where the PD won't generally touch anyone tainted by the dark side!).

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:48 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
chrisbru wrote:So what's the best way to go about getting into a career in criminal defense? I can't get any criminal defense firms to respond for the life of me.

I haven't seen a lot of criminal defense firms hire students/newbies - they're usually fairly small and don't have time to train. I think they tend to hire former DAs/PDs. (But this is a gut reaction based on where I've been in the country - not claiming universal gospel here.)

Most of the criminal defense attorneys I know started their careers in prosecution.

Yeah, I've seen this a lot, too (if we're talking about private criminal defense folks. I went to law school in a true believer state where the PD won't generally touch anyone tainted by the dark side!).


Thanks all—I'll talk to people I know and try to volunteer in the spring.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:22 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
chrisbru wrote:So what's the best way to go about getting into a career in criminal defense? I can't get any criminal defense firms to respond for the life of me.

I haven't seen a lot of criminal defense firms hire students/newbies - they're usually fairly small and don't have time to train. I think they tend to hire former DAs/PDs. (But this is a gut reaction based on where I've been in the country - not claiming universal gospel here.)

Most of the criminal defense attorneys I know started their careers in prosecution.

Yeah, I've seen this a lot, too (if we're talking about private criminal defense folks. I went to law school in a true believer state where the PD won't generally touch anyone tainted by the dark side!).


Which is so annoying. I have some experience on the dark side, which means the PD's HR drones trash my resume instantly.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:46 pm

Ok - just another run of the mill, discouraged job hunter post. I just don't know what to do. I am top 12%, LR editor, at t-35 school and a got an "economic reasons" no offer from a mid-sized firm. I have a good bite from a smaller firm in my top market (they said "don't accept a position until you talk to us"), but they can't project a hiring timeline for a position until at least January. I have had zero luck in mass mailing, but I definitely have a little more "mass" to it. I am probably shooting myself in the foot by targeting only specific firms (corp/ tax/ securities law), but I didn't come to law school just to practice any kind of law, I know what I like and I don't want to be another attorney who wants to kill themselves because they are practicing in a field they hate. I am just discouraged as hell and disillusioned by the job hunt. Can anyone give me an idea about what the hiring is looking like right now? I feel like firms aren't going to be responding to requests until next Spring... am I wrong?

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ok - just another run of the mill, discouraged job hunter post. I just don't know what to do. I am top 12%, LR editor, at t-35 school and a got an "economic reasons" no offer from a mid-sized firm. I have a good bite from a smaller firm in my top market (they said "don't accept a position until you talk to us"), but they can't project a hiring timeline for a position until at least January. I have had zero luck in mass mailing, but I definitely have a little more "mass" to it. I am probably shooting myself in the foot by targeting only specific firms (corp/ tax/ securities law), but I didn't come to law school just to practice any kind of law, I know what I like and I don't want to be another attorney who wants to kill themselves because they are practicing in a field they hate. I am just discouraged as hell and disillusioned by the job hunt. Can anyone give me an idea about what the hiring is looking like right now? I feel like firms aren't going to be responding to requests until next Spring... am I wrong?


What the he11 do you think the hiring is like? Its non-existent. You have missed out on everything firm related. If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting. You better go to option b, c, d, e, and f.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:34 pm

sparty99 wrote:
he11



...seriously? Get fucking bent

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:25 pm

sparty 99
he 11

idk

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typ3
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ok - just another run of the mill, discouraged job hunter post. I just don't know what to do. I am top 12%, LR editor, at t-35 school and a got an "economic reasons" no offer from a mid-sized firm. I have a good bite from a smaller firm in my top market (they said "don't accept a position until you talk to us"), but they can't project a hiring timeline for a position until at least January. I have had zero luck in mass mailing, but I definitely have a little more "mass" to it. I am probably shooting myself in the foot by targeting only specific firms (corp/ tax/ securities law), but I didn't come to law school just to practice any kind of law, I know what I like and I don't want to be another attorney who wants to kill themselves because they are practicing in a field they hate. I am just discouraged as hell and disillusioned by the job hunt. Can anyone give me an idea about what the hiring is looking like right now? I feel like firms aren't going to be responding to requests until next Spring... am I wrong?


Beggars can't be choosers.

Most firms take whatever work comes in the door unless they are white shoe or high end botique. To 98% of law firms in existence any and all legal work is considered grist to the mill.

If you're worried about being appreciated for your superb intellect, ranking top 12% etc. go into a corporate job or join a different profession. No one in law cares what you ranked after your first job. It's all about are your connections and who are your clients. Success in business and life isn't so much what you know as who you know.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:43 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
he11



...seriously? Get fucking bent


Cry me a river.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ok - just another run of the mill, discouraged job hunter post. I just don't know what to do. I am top 12%, LR editor, at t-35 school and a got an "economic reasons" no offer from a mid-sized firm. I have a good bite from a smaller firm in my top market (they said "don't accept a position until you talk to us"), but they can't project a hiring timeline for a position until at least January. I have had zero luck in mass mailing, but I definitely have a little more "mass" to it. I am probably shooting myself in the foot by targeting only specific firms (corp/ tax/ securities law), but I didn't come to law school just to practice any kind of law, I know what I like and I don't want to be another attorney who wants to kill themselves because they are practicing in a field they hate. I am just discouraged as hell and disillusioned by the job hunt. Can anyone give me an idea about what the hiring is looking like right now? I feel like firms aren't going to be responding to requests until next Spring... am I wrong?


Are you a 3L? If so, I highly suggest you forget about the whole "I only want to do tax/corporate law" and start applying to EVERYTHING. You are at the end of the rope here and while it sucks to realize things didn't pan out like you thought its important to keep everything in perspective. As a 3L the door is closing quickly and you need to find a job, ANY job, to make sure you have money to pay bills. You can certainly still apply to all the tax/corp jobs you want but you really need to be applying to every firm that does anything and everything in hopes of landing a position, building experience and maybe finding tax/corp later on in your career. I get that you don't wanna be stuck doing something you don't really wanna do but I can tell you that unless you truly have legit other options postgrad you will be stuck doing nothing if you don't wake up and realize that limiting your area of law is about the worst thing you can do right now. You're in the definition of the beggars can't be choosers situation right now and you need to act like it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:00 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok - just another run of the mill, discouraged job hunter post. I just don't know what to do. I am top 12%, LR editor, at t-35 school and a got an "economic reasons" no offer from a mid-sized firm. I have a good bite from a smaller firm in my top market (they said "don't accept a position until you talk to us"), but they can't project a hiring timeline for a position until at least January. I have had zero luck in mass mailing, but I definitely have a little more "mass" to it. I am probably shooting myself in the foot by targeting only specific firms (corp/ tax/ securities law), but I didn't come to law school just to practice any kind of law, I know what I like and I don't want to be another attorney who wants to kill themselves because they are practicing in a field they hate. I am just discouraged as hell and disillusioned by the job hunt. Can anyone give me an idea about what the hiring is looking like right now? I feel like firms aren't going to be responding to requests until next Spring... am I wrong?


Are you a 3L? If so, I highly suggest you forget about the whole "I only want to do tax/corporate law" and start applying to EVERYTHING. You are at the end of the rope here and while it sucks to realize things didn't pan out like you thought its important to keep everything in perspective. As a 3L the door is closing quickly and you need to find a job, ANY job, to make sure you have money to pay bills. You can certainly still apply to all the tax/corp jobs you want but you really need to be applying to every firm that does anything and everything in hopes of landing a position, building experience and maybe finding tax/corp later on in your career. I get that you don't wanna be stuck doing something you don't really wanna do but I can tell you that unless you truly have legit other options postgrad you will be stuck doing nothing if you don't wake up and realize that limiting your area of law is about the worst thing you can do right now. You're in the definition of the beggars can't be choosers situation right now and you need to act like it.

I've seen this kind of post before, but that raises the question: How you can market yourself to doing an area of law when your resume screams another? For example, is it possible to transform your IP/patent resume into a tax resume?

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:26 pm

a male human wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok - just another run of the mill, discouraged job hunter post. I just don't know what to do. I am top 12%, LR editor, at t-35 school and a got an "economic reasons" no offer from a mid-sized firm. I have a good bite from a smaller firm in my top market (they said "don't accept a position until you talk to us"), but they can't project a hiring timeline for a position until at least January. I have had zero luck in mass mailing, but I definitely have a little more "mass" to it. I am probably shooting myself in the foot by targeting only specific firms (corp/ tax/ securities law), but I didn't come to law school just to practice any kind of law, I know what I like and I don't want to be another attorney who wants to kill themselves because they are practicing in a field they hate. I am just discouraged as hell and disillusioned by the job hunt. Can anyone give me an idea about what the hiring is looking like right now? I feel like firms aren't going to be responding to requests until next Spring... am I wrong?


Are you a 3L? If so, I highly suggest you forget about the whole "I only want to do tax/corporate law" and start applying to EVERYTHING. You are at the end of the rope here and while it sucks to realize things didn't pan out like you thought its important to keep everything in perspective. As a 3L the door is closing quickly and you need to find a job, ANY job, to make sure you have money to pay bills. You can certainly still apply to all the tax/corp jobs you want but you really need to be applying to every firm that does anything and everything in hopes of landing a position, building experience and maybe finding tax/corp later on in your career. I get that you don't wanna be stuck doing something you don't really wanna do but I can tell you that unless you truly have legit other options postgrad you will be stuck doing nothing if you don't wake up and realize that limiting your area of law is about the worst thing you can do right now. You're in the definition of the beggars can't be choosers situation right now and you need to act like it.

I've seen this kind of post before, but that raises the question: How you can market yourself to doing an area of law when your resume screams another? For example, is it possible to transform your IP/patent resume into a tax resume?


Yes. You start putting your business classes on your resume: Secured Transactions, Bus. Org, etc. Then you change the wording of your resume. A resume is for the job you WANT. Not the job that you HAVE/HAD. Does your school have a business law clinic? If so, do that. Volunteer to do Taxes. Get a seasonal job at H&R Block. A law firm cares little about your 10 week summer experience. Your resume will first and foremost be judged by your class rank. If that's good, then have the resume mirror the job description. Have a results-oriented resume. Does just list what you did. I mean, its not hard to transform a resume. If your resume screams something, then make it not scream. You are the one who created the resume.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:31 pm

For my mountain best friends:

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, COLORADO

Cortez, CO
Application Deadline: 01/01/2014

DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE - 22ND JUDICIAL DISTRICT
http://www.courts.state.co.us/Courts/Di ... rict_ID=22
Date Posted: 11/26/2013
Job Type: ATTORNEY
Schedule Type: Full Time

Practice Areas: Criminal Law/Death Penalty, Litigation

Job Description
District Attorney's Office looking for deputy felony prosecutor in Southwest Colorado. Digital work environment, must be comfortable with technology and computing. Small office with manageable case load. Must be willing to be a team player and handle other case loads as needed. Must be able to manage and organize case load, be detailed in case research, preparation and note taking. Professional communication skills required for interaction with law enforcement, witnesses, victims and office staff. Training available and at times may be required.

Qualifications
Felony trial experience required. Must be licensed in Colorado or able to get licensed quickly.

Salary
$55,000-$75,000 DOE

Application Instructions:
For application instructions, contact:

Clarisa Folsom
Office Manager
District Attorney's Office
22nd Judicial District
103 N Chestnut St Cortez, CO 81321
970-564-2761 (direct line)

Deadline: January 1st, 2014

Application Deadline: 01/01/2014

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lwoods » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:34 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok - just another run of the mill, discouraged job hunter post. I just don't know what to do. I am top 12%, LR editor, at t-35 school and a got an "economic reasons" no offer from a mid-sized firm. I have a good bite from a smaller firm in my top market (they said "don't accept a position until you talk to us"), but they can't project a hiring timeline for a position until at least January. I have had zero luck in mass mailing, but I definitely have a little more "mass" to it. I am probably shooting myself in the foot by targeting only specific firms (corp/ tax/ securities law), but I didn't come to law school just to practice any kind of law, I know what I like and I don't want to be another attorney who wants to kill themselves because they are practicing in a field they hate. I am just discouraged as hell and disillusioned by the job hunt. Can anyone give me an idea about what the hiring is looking like right now? I feel like firms aren't going to be responding to requests until next Spring... am I wrong?


Are you a 3L? If so, I highly suggest you forget about the whole "I only want to do tax/corporate law" and start applying to EVERYTHING. You are at the end of the rope here and while it sucks to realize things didn't pan out like you thought its important to keep everything in perspective. As a 3L the door is closing quickly and you need to find a job, ANY job, to make sure you have money to pay bills. You can certainly still apply to all the tax/corp jobs you want but you really need to be applying to every firm that does anything and everything in hopes of landing a position, building experience and maybe finding tax/corp later on in your career. I get that you don't wanna be stuck doing something you don't really wanna do but I can tell you that unless you truly have legit other options postgrad you will be stuck doing nothing if you don't wake up and realize that limiting your area of law is about the worst thing you can do right now. You're in the definition of the beggars can't be choosers situation right now and you need to act like it.


Apply to everything, but network, too. Send emails to individuals, talk to professors to get introduction, and go to events where there will be more lawyers than law students.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:35 pm

I am a 3L that only wants to do transactional related work(i'll rather do non-law transactional work over litigation) and I'm wondering if you guys can give me some advice on where else I should be applying? Are there positions in banks and F500 companies that I should be looking at?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:40 pm

sparty99 wrote:
a male human wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ok - just another run of the mill, discouraged job hunter post. I just don't know what to do. I am top 12%, LR editor, at t-35 school and a got an "economic reasons" no offer from a mid-sized firm. I have a good bite from a smaller firm in my top market (they said "don't accept a position until you talk to us"), but they can't project a hiring timeline for a position until at least January. I have had zero luck in mass mailing, but I definitely have a little more "mass" to it. I am probably shooting myself in the foot by targeting only specific firms (corp/ tax/ securities law), but I didn't come to law school just to practice any kind of law, I know what I like and I don't want to be another attorney who wants to kill themselves because they are practicing in a field they hate. I am just discouraged as hell and disillusioned by the job hunt. Can anyone give me an idea about what the hiring is looking like right now? I feel like firms aren't going to be responding to requests until next Spring... am I wrong?


Are you a 3L? If so, I highly suggest you forget about the whole "I only want to do tax/corporate law" and start applying to EVERYTHING. You are at the end of the rope here and while it sucks to realize things didn't pan out like you thought its important to keep everything in perspective. As a 3L the door is closing quickly and you need to find a job, ANY job, to make sure you have money to pay bills. You can certainly still apply to all the tax/corp jobs you want but you really need to be applying to every firm that does anything and everything in hopes of landing a position, building experience and maybe finding tax/corp later on in your career. I get that you don't wanna be stuck doing something you don't really wanna do but I can tell you that unless you truly have legit other options postgrad you will be stuck doing nothing if you don't wake up and realize that limiting your area of law is about the worst thing you can do right now. You're in the definition of the beggars can't be choosers situation right now and you need to act like it.

I've seen this kind of post before, but that raises the question: How you can market yourself to doing an area of law when your resume screams another? For example, is it possible to transform your IP/patent resume into a tax resume?


Yes. You start putting your business classes on your resume: Secured Transactions, Bus. Org, etc. Then you change the wording of your resume. A resume is for the job you WANT. Not the job that you HAVE/HAD. Does your school have a business law clinic? If so, do that. Volunteer to do Taxes. Get a seasonal job at H&R Block. A law firm cares little about your 10 week summer experience. Your resume will first and foremost be judged by your class rank. If that's good, then have the resume mirror the job description. Have a results-oriented resume. Does just list what you did. I mean, its not hard to transform a resume. If your resume screams something, then make it not scream. You are the one who created the resume.

That sucks since I already graduated and have terrible grades. Good thing I'm still dedicated to my field. I am a glass cannon!

jaydizzle
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jaydizzle » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am a 3L that only wants to do transactional related work(i'll rather do non-law transactional work over litigation) and I'm wondering if you guys can give me some advice on where else I should be applying? Are there positions in banks and F500 companies that I should be looking at?


Ditto. I am also interested to know opinions about this.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:18 pm

jaydizzle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a 3L that only wants to do transactional related work(i'll rather do non-law transactional work over litigation) and I'm wondering if you guys can give me some advice on where else I should be applying? Are there positions in banks and F500 companies that I should be looking at?


Ditto. I am also interested to know opinions about this.

Well, big firms are done hiring, and banks and F500 companies like to hire big firm alums

Most of the 3L jobs that are left are litigation

But you may be able to work for a small firm doing real estate/trusts/estate/wills/probate

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:38 pm

mr. wednesday wrote:For my mountain best friends:

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, COLORADO




Thanks, brew. Where'd you find this? I missed it on my scan of all things Mountain Best.




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