The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:23 pm

Also, what's the Texas ADA yearly pay increase?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:43 pm

Bikeflip wrote:Also, what's the Texas ADA yearly pay increase?


They are pretty steady with a big jump around year 4. After 5 years it should around 110k. Also weighing into it is the 10 year loan forgiveness eligibility.

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typ3
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am graduating from a TTT in Texas with median grades I am in the top 50% and might squeak into the 33.3% based on cake walk 3L classes. I just got offered a job as an ADA in Texas. How it works is after I grad I am an paid intern until after I get my bar results and then I am sworn in as ADA. Cost of living is cheap and the starting salary is 60k. The only downside is that I would be leaving a non-legal position that pays 72k now. With the cheaper ADA benefits I am only losing about 500.00 a month take home. Should I take the ADA or hold on to my non-legal job while looking for another legal position?

Also, I absolutely want to litigate, and love the courtroom.


Take the 72k over the 60k. Given reasonable returns over 40 years that 12k you're sacrificing now is equal to 500k+ when invested at retirement age. For 2 year's it's equal to almost 1m. So ask yourself, is the difference between the 2 jobs worth 1m at retirement age. The whole point of working is to make $ so you don't have to work and your money can work for you. Why would you want to give up that much capital? When you're in a non-legal setting you don't have as much of a ceiling on what you can make. Litigation is fun for like the first year and then after that it's the same old grind to make a buck. I would maximize your ability to live a decent life and retire over choosing a job because it sounds glamorous now. It really isn't that fun to work at any age so why not make the most you can while you have to?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:18 pm

typ3 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am graduating from a TTT in Texas with median grades I am in the top 50% and might squeak into the 33.3% based on cake walk 3L classes. I just got offered a job as an ADA in Texas. How it works is after I grad I am an paid intern until after I get my bar results and then I am sworn in as ADA. Cost of living is cheap and the starting salary is 60k. The only downside is that I would be leaving a non-legal position that pays 72k now. With the cheaper ADA benefits I am only losing about 500.00 a month take home. Should I take the ADA or hold on to my non-legal job while looking for another legal position?

Also, I absolutely want to litigate, and love the courtroom.


Take the 72k over the 60k. Given reasonable returns over 40 years that 12k you're sacrificing now is equal to 500k+ when invested at retirement age. For 2 year's it's equal to almost 1m. So ask yourself, is the difference between the 2 jobs worth 1m at retirement age. The whole point of working is to make $ so you don't have to work and your money can work for you. Why would you want to give up that much capital? When you're in a non-legal setting you don't have as much of a ceiling on what you can make. Litigation is fun for like the first year and then after that it's the same old grind to make a buck. I would maximize your ability to live a decent life and retire over choosing a job because it sounds glamorous now. It really isn't that fun to work at any age so why not make the most you can while you have to?


I am looking at a 2-3% merit raise per year until I cap out at 103k with my current non-legal job. By doing the math at 5years if I stay where I am I will be at 83k. If I go to the ADA I am at above 100k. So, I guess that settles the money issue. Really solving the question as a whole. Although, it is kind of a dumb question to contemplate; but I wonder what kind of exit options I would have after being a prosecutor. It would be nice to make some real money at sometime in my life.

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typ3
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
typ3 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am graduating from a TTT in Texas with median grades I am in the top 50% and might squeak into the 33.3% based on cake walk 3L classes. I just got offered a job as an ADA in Texas. How it works is after I grad I am an paid intern until after I get my bar results and then I am sworn in as ADA. Cost of living is cheap and the starting salary is 60k. The only downside is that I would be leaving a non-legal position that pays 72k now. With the cheaper ADA benefits I am only losing about 500.00 a month take home. Should I take the ADA or hold on to my non-legal job while looking for another legal position?

Also, I absolutely want to litigate, and love the courtroom.


Take the 72k over the 60k. Given reasonable returns over 40 years that 12k you're sacrificing now is equal to 500k+ when invested at retirement age. For 2 year's it's equal to almost 1m. So ask yourself, is the difference between the 2 jobs worth 1m at retirement age. The whole point of working is to make $ so you don't have to work and your money can work for you. Why would you want to give up that much capital? When you're in a non-legal setting you don't have as much of a ceiling on what you can make. Litigation is fun for like the first year and then after that it's the same old grind to make a buck. I would maximize your ability to live a decent life and retire over choosing a job because it sounds glamorous now. It really isn't that fun to work at any age so why not make the most you can while you have to?


I am looking at a 2-3% merit raise per year until I cap out at 103k with my current non-legal job. By doing the math at 5years if I stay where I am I will be at 83k. If I go to the ADA I am at above 100k. So, I guess that settles the money issue. Really solving the question as a whole. Although, it is kind of a dumb question to contemplate; but I wonder what kind of exit options I would have after being a prosecutor. It would be nice to make some real money at sometime in my life.


You don't have exit opportunities from being a prosecutor, none of the skills are really relevant to private industry and when you exit to go to private industry the only way you're going to make $$ is to be in sales since being a prosecutor takes you out of the executive track and you weren't practicing law that is applicable to industry in any other way.. (mergers and acquisitions / tax / etc.) (The 2 positions as you know that make the most $ in any corporation are sales/biz dev and executives.)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:49 pm

typ3 wrote:You don't have exit opportunities from being a prosecutor, none of the skills are really relevant to private industry and when you exit to go to private industry the only way you're going to make $$ is to be in sales since being a prosecutor takes you out of the executive track. (The 2 positions as you know that make the most $ in any corporation are sales/biz dev and executives.)


I guess I should qualify as exit options to a mid or large firm. Hopefully, crim defense isn't the only ex-prosecutor job to go to.

Yeah sales and operations are about the only way to make cash in a corp.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:54 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am graduating from a TTT in Texas with median grades I am in the top 50% and might squeak into the 33.3% based on cake walk 3L classes. I just got offered a job as an ADA in Texas. How it works is after I grad I am an paid intern until after I get my bar results and then I am sworn in as ADA. Cost of living is cheap and the starting salary is 60k. The only downside is that I would be leaving a non-legal position that pays 72k now. With the cheaper ADA benefits I am only losing about 500.00 a month take home. Should I take the ADA or hold on to my non-legal job while looking for another legal position?

Also, I absolutely want to litigate, and love the courtroom.


If you want to be an attorney take the ADA position.


I agree.

Working is about more than money. At least to me. This is your call- but my vote is to do the work you find meaningful.

I don't know anything about exit options out of the DAs office. Not sure if being a judge counts.

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deadpanic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deadpanic » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:56 pm

typ3 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
typ3 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am graduating from a TTT in Texas with median grades I am in the top 50% and might squeak into the 33.3% based on cake walk 3L classes. I just got offered a job as an ADA in Texas. How it works is after I grad I am an paid intern until after I get my bar results and then I am sworn in as ADA. Cost of living is cheap and the starting salary is 60k. The only downside is that I would be leaving a non-legal position that pays 72k now. With the cheaper ADA benefits I am only losing about 500.00 a month take home. Should I take the ADA or hold on to my non-legal job while looking for another legal position?

Also, I absolutely want to litigate, and love the courtroom.


Take the 72k over the 60k. Given reasonable returns over 40 years that 12k you're sacrificing now is equal to 500k+ when invested at retirement age. For 2 year's it's equal to almost 1m. So ask yourself, is the difference between the 2 jobs worth 1m at retirement age. The whole point of working is to make $ so you don't have to work and your money can work for you. Why would you want to give up that much capital? When you're in a non-legal setting you don't have as much of a ceiling on what you can make. Litigation is fun for like the first year and then after that it's the same old grind to make a buck. I would maximize your ability to live a decent life and retire over choosing a job because it sounds glamorous now. It really isn't that fun to work at any age so why not make the most you can while you have to?


I am looking at a 2-3% merit raise per year until I cap out at 103k with my current non-legal job. By doing the math at 5years if I stay where I am I will be at 83k. If I go to the ADA I am at above 100k. So, I guess that settles the money issue. Really solving the question as a whole. Although, it is kind of a dumb question to contemplate; but I wonder what kind of exit options I would have after being a prosecutor. It would be nice to make some real money at sometime in my life.


You don't have exit opportunities from being a prosecutor, none of the skills are really relevant to private industry and when you exit to go to private industry the only way you're going to make $$ is to be in sales since being a prosecutor takes you out of the executive track and you weren't practicing law that is applicable to industry in any other way.. (mergers and acquisitions / tax / etc.) (The 2 positions as you know that make the most $ in any corporation are sales/biz dev and executives.)


Eh, I don't think that is necessarily true. If you work as an ADA for awhile, you likely make some really good political contacts and become a seasoned litigator. You are in regular contact with good private attorneys, multiple judges, and others in local gov't that can help you land a solid gig. You also may have a small shot at jumping to the Feds and being an AUSA.

Most all the local judges are former ADAs. Of course, this isn't a likely outcome for you, but it's possible.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:11 pm

I know a lot of people in the civil side of (fed) government who started as ADAs because they get general litigation skills and courtroom experience. Keeping a non-legal job is going to limit your options to move into any area of law a lot more than an ADA position will. Plus, a DA office salary comes with PSLF which really can be priceless depending on your debt load.

Sometimes TLS can be so obsessed with exit options to the exclusion of taking a job now that you actually want. No choice you make at this point will preserve every possible option for the future. If you have an opportunity that you would like and can learn from, take it and worry about whether (not when) you want to move on to something else as a secondary concern.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lwoods » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
typ3 wrote:You don't have exit opportunities from being a prosecutor, none of the skills are really relevant to private industry and when you exit to go to private industry the only way you're going to make $$ is to be in sales since being a prosecutor takes you out of the executive track. (The 2 positions as you know that make the most $ in any corporation are sales/biz dev and executives.)


I guess I should qualify as exit options to a mid or large firm. Hopefully, crim defense isn't the only ex-prosecutor job to go to.

Yeah sales and operations are about the only way to make cash in a corp.


My dad has spent most of his career as a prosecutor, but he has also spent some time as a judge as well as in an administrative role for the court system. He doesn't have interest in other areas of law, though, particularly in my hometown where it's only divorce/bankruptcy/PI in the private sector.

Don't underestimate the value of trial experience.

ETA: to echo mr. wednesday with another anecdote, my summer boss had an unusual career trajectory: Midwest AG's office to DC agency to TX in-house to TX Biglaw to opening his own boutique firm in CA. Life can take so many twists and turns in 40+ years.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:30 pm

typ3 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
typ3 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am graduating from a TTT in Texas with median grades I am in the top 50% and might squeak into the 33.3% based on cake walk 3L classes. I just got offered a job as an ADA in Texas. How it works is after I grad I am an paid intern until after I get my bar results and then I am sworn in as ADA. Cost of living is cheap and the starting salary is 60k. The only downside is that I would be leaving a non-legal position that pays 72k now. With the cheaper ADA benefits I am only losing about 500.00 a month take home. Should I take the ADA or hold on to my non-legal job while looking for another legal position?

Also, I absolutely want to litigate, and love the courtroom.


Take the 72k over the 60k. Given reasonable returns over 40 years that 12k you're sacrificing now is equal to 500k+ when invested at retirement age. For 2 year's it's equal to almost 1m. So ask yourself, is the difference between the 2 jobs worth 1m at retirement age. The whole point of working is to make $ so you don't have to work and your money can work for you. Why would you want to give up that much capital? When you're in a non-legal setting you don't have as much of a ceiling on what you can make. Litigation is fun for like the first year and then after that it's the same old grind to make a buck. I would maximize your ability to live a decent life and retire over choosing a job because it sounds glamorous now. It really isn't that fun to work at any age so why not make the most you can while you have to?


I am looking at a 2-3% merit raise per year until I cap out at 103k with my current non-legal job. By doing the math at 5years if I stay where I am I will be at 83k. If I go to the ADA I am at above 100k. So, I guess that settles the money issue. Really solving the question as a whole. Although, it is kind of a dumb question to contemplate; but I wonder what kind of exit options I would have after being a prosecutor. It would be nice to make some real money at sometime in my life.


You don't have exit opportunities from being a prosecutor, none of the skills are really relevant to private industry and when you exit to go to private industry the only way you're going to make $$ is to be in sales since being a prosecutor takes you out of the executive track and you weren't practicing law that is applicable to industry in any other way.. (mergers and acquisitions / tax / etc.) (The 2 positions as you know that make the most $ in any corporation are sales/biz dev and executives.)


Yeah, this is completely untrue. Both the firms I worked for hired former ADAs and I know a handful of other firms that have as well. You have trial experience with huge case loads under strict timelines, any firm that does any sort of trial work is going to eat that up. One of the ADAs that joined the firm I worked at during 2L told me the magic number of years is 4. If you don't get out by then and go to year 5 you will be pigeonholed. I'm not sure how he came up with that number but he said its widely known that you start looking in year 3 and you go nuts at year 4 cause your window is closing.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:39 am

Wanted to touch on the solo career options discussed earlier... only going anon to talk about firm info

The department I'm in works a volume practice with pretty routine court appearances, representing creditors in a top 10 metro area. Whenever one of the volume cases pops beyond our 10 county footprint where it makes sense to drive, we put the case onto Mymotioncalendar, and a local attorney picks it up. The type of cases I'm talking about are dispo hearings, MFR hearings, that sort of stuff. These are the sort of cases where you get the file, you show up, talk for 5 minutes max, and get an order entered... if there's a serious contest to it, we become more involved in drafting motions etc before it ever hits your hands.

As I understand, net of fees Mymotioncalendar pays ~$200. Not a ton of money, but if you do 2 or 3 of those per week and use that to pay the bills, it makes it a lot easier to float the rest of your practice as it grows. And I'm sure there are other similar types of attorney farm work websites out there to use to help build your business.

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typ3
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:09 am

It's $100 in my area to attend another attorney's 341 hearing.

Also regarding the thread above, I think what we're talking about as exit options and making a lot of money are very different things. Sure you can exit from being a prosecutor to another govt position or law firm making anywhere from 60-200k, but I don't really think this qualifies as making serious money nor is it a way to get you off of the working treadmill. Ideally your work as a prosecutor or any positions should be to make business connections. Making connections with politicians / other bureaucrats doesn't move you up the ladder since most government work requires an RFP/RFQ from private industry and it is a bid market.

Also anecdotal evidence of lawyers who graduated from law school 40 years ago isn't exactly applicable since the legal field is drastically and structurally different now days. Making connections with private attorneys is useless is an "eat what you kill" market. If no one is able to hire now due to lack of work, why would they hire someone with a few years of experience. A lot of lawyers wash out after 10 years and get out of the profession due to lack of stability and work, why would things suddenly be different now.

My honest advice if you want to make serious money is to find a profession / business that is a lot more scalable than law when / if you decide to leave the prosecutor's position and build some capital and can be run without you there. Leveraging other people's time and other people's money is the only way to get anywhere.

But ignore what other people are saying about working what you like more, that's the mentality of guaranteed lifelong corporate serfdom. The point of working is to build your capital so you can start compounding it and not work. Money talks, bull shit walks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:20 am

In my market former ADAs branch out to do plaintiffs work, insurance defense, crim def, judge, and mediation. I know a former ADA who uses his trial skills at an insurance def firm. I had a beer at his mansion once. Another former ADA runs a high end plaintiffs firm, had a beer at one of her three mansions after riding in her husband's porche 911.

Yeah. You do alright as a former ADA as long as, like a judge once told me (also former ADA and civil litigator), you don't stay in it too long. Apparently if you do it too long you get too used to not having a client and its hard to go back.

I'd say that if you want litigation and trial work an you work hard and network, you'll be fine. I'd take the ADA job, personally. YMMV.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:42 am

I srsly considered ADA

Great entry level

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:58 am

typ3 wrote:It's $100 in my area to attend another attorney's 341 hearing.

Also regarding the thread above, I think what we're talking about as exit options and making a lot of money are very different things. Sure you can exit from being a prosecutor to another govt position or law firm making anywhere from 60-200k, but I don't really think this qualifies as making serious money nor is it a way to get you off of the working treadmill. Ideally your work as a prosecutor or any positions should be to make business connections. Making connections with politicians / other bureaucrats doesn't move you up the ladder since most government work requires an RFP/RFQ from private industry and it is a bid market.

Also anecdotal evidence of lawyers who graduated from law school 40 years ago isn't exactly applicable since the legal field is drastically and structurally different now days. Making connections with private attorneys is useless is an "eat what you kill" market. If no one is able to hire now due to lack of work, why would they hire someone with a few years of experience. A lot of lawyers wash out after 10 years and get out of the profession due to lack of stability and work, why would things suddenly be different now.

My honest advice if you want to make serious money is to find a profession / business that is a lot more scalable than law when / if you decide to leave the prosecutor's position and build some capital and can be run without you there. Leveraging other people's time and other people's money is the only way to get anywhere.

But ignore what other people are saying about working what you like more, that's the mentality of guaranteed lifelong corporate serfdom. The point of working is to build your capital so you can start compounding it and not work. Money talks, bull shit walks.


This is turning into a troll. I think you get the picture of what your potential options and risks are, and if you want to be a lawyer ADA is a good start (better than no lawyer position), and nothing stops lawyers from going into business.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:26 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
chrisbru wrote:I have good mentors in the area, an office with phone/internet/furniture/shared conference rooms in a good location close to the court house is $600/month, and I'd absolutely do court-appointed stuff to make sure there are at least some clients coming in the door.

Really, I'm not worried about getting clients or being able to afford to live. I'm mostly worried about the malpractice/reputation stuff you mentioned. That's kind of scary.


You'd probably be the first solo to ever say that. Idk about your market, but the court appointed stuff in major markets is so dry (especially for recent grads that aren't even allowed to take the heavy felony-type stuff) that you'd get more clients just begging on the street. The appointed list is also very buddy-buddy so typically the guy in charge just sends the cases to his friends unless they don't want them (verbatim what the guy in charge of the court appointed list in Montgomery County, PA said to me). Knowing people who control that list is huge.

The reputation stuff is definitely a big deal, but if you have mentors that are seriously willing to coach you then you can get by without messing up too bad between the mentors and spending hours and hours looking up how to do basic stuff online. I personally worried about being realistic on clients much more than messing up.



Only 5 states have lower attorney-per-capita levels, and I know thousands of people in the city, including attorneys who are going to refer me family law and municipal stuff and the people in charge of the appointed list. So, yeah, I think I'd be ok with caseload.

I'd still rather work for a firm, but if the options come down to $40k/yr to work at a firm in a small town vs. attempting solo practice in my home city and living with my parents for a while, I might just try it out.

typ3 wrote:Failure rate for solos is pretty high.

To be honest if you're doing solo the best model is running a mill, divorce / bankruptcy / personal injury / debt relief / social security disability and cross selling services, but even this model has had most of the margins cut out.

Since you have a finance degree and a JD Chris you're better off going to be a solo in wealth management / financial planning etc or getting into trust / wealth management at a bank. At least you can solicit people directly in that field and it's easier to sell people to give you money to make them money than a direct loss like legal bills. The big advantage too is that you can socialize and talk to people which a lot of law grads can't, plus if you get people decent returns you can build your book of business. It's not like people get run over by a truck every single day in law nor do people commit torts that people are willing to sue over, but people buy and move money every second.

Also as a solo as the person above me noted you have to constantly worry about getting people to buy your services since there isn't recurring revenue in law like other businesses. It sucks to sit in an office that is silent waiting for the phone to ring. The bar rules are written to keep new lawyers from competing in the game by barring solicitation. So, it can get pretty depressing pretty fast :/


Dude, I don't think you get it. I want to be an attorney. I like the law, and I want to be a practicing attorney. I've thought about other career paths, and I'm not willing to pursue those yet because it's only November and there are still plenty of shots at a legal job.

ETA: I am waiting on the details of an offer at a company similar to Cambridge, but in a little bit better of a location. So, yeah, this is an option, but I'm not willing to commit to it yet.


BarbellDreams wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am graduating from a TTT in Texas with median grades I am in the top 50% and might squeak into the 33.3% based on cake walk 3L classes. I just got offered a job as an ADA in Texas. How it works is after I grad I am an paid intern until after I get my bar results and then I am sworn in as ADA. Cost of living is cheap and the starting salary is 60k. The only downside is that I would be leaving a non-legal position that pays 72k now. With the cheaper ADA benefits I am only losing about 500.00 a month take home. Should I take the ADA or hold on to my non-legal job while looking for another legal position?

Also, I absolutely want to litigate, and love the courtroom.


If you want to be an attorney take the ADA position.


I'd kill for this opportunity. Go for it.

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typ3
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:36 pm

chrisbru wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
chrisbru wrote:I have good mentors in the area, an office with phone/internet/furniture/shared conference rooms in a good location close to the court house is $600/month, and I'd absolutely do court-appointed stuff to make sure there are at least some clients coming in the door.

Really, I'm not worried about getting clients or being able to afford to live. I'm mostly worried about the malpractice/reputation stuff you mentioned. That's kind of scary.


You'd probably be the first solo to ever say that. Idk about your market, but the court appointed stuff in major markets is so dry (especially for recent grads that aren't even allowed to take the heavy felony-type stuff) that you'd get more clients just begging on the street. The appointed list is also very buddy-buddy so typically the guy in charge just sends the cases to his friends unless they don't want them (verbatim what the guy in charge of the court appointed list in Montgomery County, PA said to me). Knowing people who control that list is huge.

The reputation stuff is definitely a big deal, but if you have mentors that are seriously willing to coach you then you can get by without messing up too bad between the mentors and spending hours and hours looking up how to do basic stuff online. I personally worried about being realistic on clients much more than messing up.



Only 5 states have lower attorney-per-capita levels, and I know thousands of people in the city, including attorneys who are going to refer me family law and municipal stuff and the people in charge of the appointed list. So, yeah, I think I'd be ok with caseload.

I'd still rather work for a firm, but if the options come down to $40k/yr to work at a firm in a small town vs. attempting solo practice in my home city and living with my parents for a while, I might just try it out.

typ3 wrote:Failure rate for solos is pretty high.

To be honest if you're doing solo the best model is running a mill, divorce / bankruptcy / personal injury / debt relief / social security disability and cross selling services, but even this model has had most of the margins cut out.

Since you have a finance degree and a JD Chris you're better off going to be a solo in wealth management / financial planning etc or getting into trust / wealth management at a bank. At least you can solicit people directly in that field and it's easier to sell people to give you money to make them money than a direct loss like legal bills. The big advantage too is that you can socialize and talk to people which a lot of law grads can't, plus if you get people decent returns you can build your book of business. It's not like people get run over by a truck every single day in law nor do people commit torts that people are willing to sue over, but people buy and move money every second.

Also as a solo as the person above me noted you have to constantly worry about getting people to buy your services since there isn't recurring revenue in law like other businesses. It sucks to sit in an office that is silent waiting for the phone to ring. The bar rules are written to keep new lawyers from competing in the game by barring solicitation. So, it can get pretty depressing pretty fast :/


Dude, I don't think you get it. I want to be an attorney. I like the law, and I want to be a practicing attorney. I've thought about other career paths, and I'm not willing to pursue those yet because it's only November and there are still plenty of shots at a legal job.

ETA: I am waiting on the details of an offer at a company similar to Cambridge, but in a little bit better of a location. So, yeah, this is an option, but I'm not willing to commit to it yet.


BarbellDreams wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am graduating from a TTT in Texas with median grades I am in the top 50% and might squeak into the 33.3% based on cake walk 3L classes. I just got offered a job as an ADA in Texas. How it works is after I grad I am an paid intern until after I get my bar results and then I am sworn in as ADA. Cost of living is cheap and the starting salary is 60k. The only downside is that I would be leaving a non-legal position that pays 72k now. With the cheaper ADA benefits I am only losing about 500.00 a month take home. Should I take the ADA or hold on to my non-legal job while looking for another legal position?

Also, I absolutely want to litigate, and love the courtroom.


If you want to be an attorney take the ADA position.


I'd kill for this opportunity. Go for it.


Get rocket matter if you're going solo for firm management. It integrates with MSWord to automate your routine documents and integrates with dropbox / Evernote for integration too. All your firm billing / ledgers can be done from it. Probably the best SaaS solution out there to be honest.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:14 pm

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:24 pm

Just got a rejection letter from a firm I had sent some materials to back in like August. Feel like after all this time it would have been better for them to just never have sent anything rather than send a rejection letter that means you were never even thought about.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just got a rejection letter from a firm I had sent some materials to back in like August. Feel like after all this time it would have been better for them to just never have sent anything rather than send a rejection letter that means you were never even thought about.



Don't beat yourself up too much, breh. Just keep applying and try to ignore the late rejections.

Gorki
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Gorki » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:53 pm

Did some more work for a solo. Definitely applying for finance sector jerbs now. Its hopeless in my market. Best of luck to the rest of you!!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:04 pm

Gorki wrote:Did some more work for a solo. Definitely applying for finance sector jerbs now. Its hopeless in my market. Best of luck to the rest of you!!


what do you mean by finance sector jobs?

Gorki
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Gorki » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Gorki wrote:Did some more work for a solo. Definitely applying for finance sector jerbs now. Its hopeless in my market. Best of luck to the rest of you!!


what do you mean by finance sector jobs?


Office drone, operational-end jobs at insurance, financial services, and "white collar" service-sector cos.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 02122015 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:02 pm

Anyone in here ever get an overly snarky rejection letter or e-mail? I made a targeted application a few weeks back to a state government gig where the job posting strongly implied that they'd at least consider entry-level applicants. The rejection e-mail I got a week later said "based on the information you provided in your application, you do not meet the minimum qualifications as described in the job description and therefore we will not consider your application further." It may as well have said "You obviously don't qualify; how dare you waste my time by applying for this?" I'm fine getting rejections, but that e-mail felt pretty rude.




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