The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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aardvark87
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby aardvark87 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:59 pm

Hey all,

Found this thread a while back and decided to introduce myself. Awesome thing you've got going. I'm a recent grad looking to get into a DA/PD office. Definitely been through the lows, the silence, the rejection, all that. One DA strung me along for 10 months and 3 interviews (and 3 plane tickets/hotels, on my dime), then dinged me right before bar prep started.

Finally got some luck. Just had 2nd/final interview with a PD's office, and may know as soon as next week. I only knew of the opening because I had emailed the office over the summer about volunteering, and the PD emailed me back saying, "We don't have volunteers, but we are hiring soon. I'll let you know when we open it up." And to my surprise, he actually did let me know. Pretty awesome of him, and basically the opposite of the DA discussed above. They've gone from initial interview to hiring in less than two months.

Obviously not counting any chickens, but feeling lucky to have a shot. Getting the interview at all took a little hustle, a little luck, and being willing to relocate to a less than ideal area. If I get dinged, I'll just keep grinding. Seeing more PD/DA openings every day.

Good luck to everyone.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:49 pm

typ3 wrote:
Chris are you open to NE/SD? I can ask around if you're still looking and see how people are about keeping up. I know SD/Omaha/Lincoln are pretty hot right now for business development and construction but I don't know what it's like on the legal side. I was talking to someone earlier but if you're interested in management/exec positions there may be a few available in the boji area as there is a bunch of new companies / plants of polaris / small cap publics moving in to take advantage of the low wages to build electric car parts / biotech etc. and supposedly they can't find educated / qualified people in the area.


Yeah, I'd prefer Omaha area to SD but I'm open at this point. I've been diversifying my applications to consulting and other business positions as well.

bjohnsobf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby bjohnsobf » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:43 pm

holland and knight

Entry Level Corporate Associate Click here to apply for this position:
Ref. No.: 1068 Job Title: Entry Level Corporate Associate
Office: • Los Angeles Department: • Business
Posted Date: 11/01/2013
Job Type:
Job Description:
Entry Level Corporate Associate in Los Angeles Office

The Los Angeles office of Holland & Knight has an immediate need for an entry level corporate associate. The candidate must be a self starter with excellent writing skills and a strong academic background. A financial background and/or business acumen is a plus. Holland & Knight’s Los Angeles office possesses a collegial atmosphere and provides its attorneys with tangible opportunities for professional growth and advancement. All inquiries will be held in strict confidence. To apply, please submit a cover letter, resume, law school transcript and writing sample. Please note, applications that do not contain both a transcript and a writing sample will not be considered. Direct applicants only - no search firm submissions. EOE. AA M/F/D/V
Job Requirements:
Self starter
Excellent writing skills
Strong academic background
Financial background and/or business acumen is a plus

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:53 am

bjohnsobf wrote:holland and knight

Entry Level Corporate Associate Click here to apply for this position:
Ref. No.: 1068 Job Title: Entry Level Corporate Associate
Office: • Los Angeles Department: • Business
Posted Date: 11/01/2013
Job Type:
Job Description:
Entry Level Corporate Associate in Los Angeles Office

The Los Angeles office of Holland & Knight has an immediate need for an entry level corporate associate. The candidate must be a self starter with excellent writing skills and a strong academic background. A financial background and/or business acumen is a plus. Holland & Knight’s Los Angeles office possesses a collegial atmosphere and provides its attorneys with tangible opportunities for professional growth and advancement. All inquiries will be held in strict confidence. To apply, please submit a cover letter, resume, law school transcript and writing sample. Please note, applications that do not contain both a transcript and a writing sample will not be considered. Direct applicants only - no search firm submissions. EOE. AA M/F/D/V
Job Requirements:
Self starter
Excellent writing skills
Strong academic background
Financial background and/or business acumen is a plus


got rejected from this a while ago. I have no clue what they are looking for.

jaydizzle
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jaydizzle » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:30 am

I am very interested in business and consulting possessions. Does anyone have any information on their hiring schedule and the type of grades needed?

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:48 am

jaydizzle wrote:I am very interested in business and consulting possessions. Does anyone have any information on their hiring schedule and the type of grades needed?


T14 mostly, but some smaller companies will hire from the T50. Probably top third to be considered. Its a hard market to break into... If you can't get law jobs, its going to be hard to get business and consulting positions. Especially if you call them possessions :p

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JazzOne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:00 pm

chrisbru wrote:
jaydizzle wrote:I am very interested in business and consulting possessions. Does anyone have any information on their hiring schedule and the type of grades needed?


T14 mostly, but some smaller companies will hire from the T50. Probably top third to be considered. Its a hard market to break into... If you can't get law jobs, its going to be hard to get business and consulting positions. Especially if you call them possessions :p

He was referring to the employees, not the jobs.

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JenDarby
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JenDarby » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:04 pm

chrisbru wrote:
jaydizzle wrote:I am very interested in business and consulting possessions. Does anyone have any information on their hiring schedule and the type of grades needed?


T14 mostly, but some smaller companies will hire from the T50. Probably top third to be considered. Its a hard market to break into... If you can't get law jobs, its going to be hard to get business and consulting positions. Especially if you call them possessions :p

:lol: :lol:

I think this is also where background is going to be the most important (more so than with law school where grades alone can get you a job). I worked at a consulting firm prior to law school and my SO worked in banking and then consulting. A JD alone isn't that useful unless you have relevant experience and an accounting/finance/business UG degree. Business schools are also churning out grads so you have to be competitive with them.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:08 pm

A friend was offered a part time position that would very likely become a full time position after he graduated. The partner that runs the group gave him a verbal offer, and said he just needed to write up the "pro forma". After a month of silence, they contacted him to say "We’re in the process of considering full-time candidates, so I need to complete that process before I know whether we will need additional help."

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:24 pm

JazzOne wrote:He was referring to the employees, not the jobs.


What? I don't understand what you are referencing?

JenDarby wrote: :lol: :lol:

I think this is also where background is going to be the most important (more so than with law school where grades alone can get you a job). I worked at a consulting firm prior to law school and my SO worked in banking and then consulting. A JD alone isn't that useful unless you have relevant experience and an accounting/finance/business UG degree. Business schools are also churning out grads so you have to be competitive with them.


Do you have any advice for us JD's with a finance BS getting into banking/consulting? T30, top third, barely 3.0 undergrad grades. I'm not looking for $160k on Wall Street, but I'd love to snag $60k in Minneapolis/Chicago/KC/Des Moines/Madison/Milwaukee/St. Louis.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:39 pm

chrisbru wrote:
JazzOne wrote:He was referring to the employees, not the jobs.


What? I don't understand what you are referencing?

JenDarby wrote: :lol: :lol:

I think this is also where background is going to be the most important (more so than with law school where grades alone can get you a job). I worked at a consulting firm prior to law school and my SO worked in banking and then consulting. A JD alone isn't that useful unless you have relevant experience and an accounting/finance/business UG degree. Business schools are also churning out grads so you have to be competitive with them.


Do you have any advice for us JD's with a finance BS getting into banking/consulting? T30, top third, barely 3.0 undergrad grades. I'm not looking for $160k on Wall Street, but I'd love to snag $60k in Minneapolis/Chicago/KC/Des Moines/Madison/Milwaukee/St. Louis.


$60,000 is quite ambitious for consulting. Especially considering those are not high cost of cities (except Chicago, which is only a small bump in salary if any). You are more likely to get $45-$60 base. Possibly bonus or OT eligible depending on the firm. If you have no work experience, then you are most likely no different then a bachelors. However, depeding on the firm, they might have special recruiting for JDs/MDs. You would most likely be at the Analyst/Associate level (the lowest track, whatever the firm might call it). There is really no solid advice, but to apply. To all the firms. Your undergrad gpa is low, you should only put your major gpa. You would need to show that you have strong analytical skills by indicating that you majored in finance, engineering, math, etc. Consulting/I-Banking recruiting has been happening since September. It is likely to end very soon. You are already late to the game if this is the path that you want. You must also be a guru in Excel and Access. Don't think that just because you have a JD, consulting firms will want you. Everyone wants consulting/banking.

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typ3
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:44 pm

sparty99 wrote:
chrisbru wrote:
JazzOne wrote:He was referring to the employees, not the jobs.


What? I don't understand what you are referencing?

JenDarby wrote: :lol: :lol:

I think this is also where background is going to be the most important (more so than with law school where grades alone can get you a job). I worked at a consulting firm prior to law school and my SO worked in banking and then consulting. A JD alone isn't that useful unless you have relevant experience and an accounting/finance/business UG degree. Business schools are also churning out grads so you have to be competitive with them.


Do you have any advice for us JD's with a finance BS getting into banking/consulting? T30, top third, barely 3.0 undergrad grades. I'm not looking for $160k on Wall Street, but I'd love to snag $60k in Minneapolis/Chicago/KC/Des Moines/Madison/Milwaukee/St. Louis.


$60,000 is quite ambitious for consulting. Especially considering those are not high cost of cities (except Chicago, which is only a small bump in salary if any). You are more likely to get $45-$60 base. Possibly bonus or OT eligible depending on the firm. If you have no work experience, then you are most likely no different then a bachelors. However, depeding on the firm, they might have special recruiting for JDs/MDs. You would most likely be at the Analyst/Associate level (the lowest track, whatever the firm might call it). There is really no solid advice, but to apply. To all the firms. Your undergrad gpa is low, you should only put your major gpa. You would need to show that you have strong analytical skills by indicating that you majored in finance, engineering, math, etc. Consulting/I-Banking recruiting has been happening since September. It is likely to end very soon. You are already late to the game if this is the path that you want. You must also be a guru in Excel and Access. Don't think that just because you have a JD, consulting firms will want you. Everyone wants consulting/banking.


What firms besides HFT care about math beyond maybe calc 1? It's all about excel ninjaing. One thing too is to try to get in with an AA/PE firm that needs people on the operational side if you have mgmt experience. Modeling is ez. It's the execution and management of transactions that is hard. FWIW Chris, I have a few friends that broke into Ibanking in MPLS by just cold calling every single day at places until eventually there was an opening. He had a background in accounting.. like a 3.0 gpa and his relevant work experience was setting up cubicles and being an Abercrombie store "model."

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:52 pm

The schools have hit a new low today. Symplicity posted a a CLE event as a "position" that actually charges YOU to attend. We have slowly evolved from posting jobs with good pay to jobs with bad pay to volunteer gigs and are now at posting things that actually TAKE your money.

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Dr. Review
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:55 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:The schools have hit a new low today. Symplicity posted a a CLE event as a "position" that actually charges YOU to attend. We have slowly evolved from posting jobs with good pay to jobs with bad pay to volunteer gigs and are now at posting things that actually TAKE your money.

Better or worse job than putting flyers on cars?

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typ3
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:57 pm

Bedsole wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:The schools have hit a new low today. Symplicity posted a a CLE event as a "position" that actually charges YOU to attend. We have slowly evolved from posting jobs with good pay to jobs with bad pay to volunteer gigs and are now at posting things that actually TAKE your money.

Better or worse job than putting flyers on cars?


Worse. You can normally find a pizza place or other business in your town that will pay you minimum wage to flyer cars.

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Dr. Review
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:58 pm

typ3 wrote:Worse. You can normally find a pizza place or other business in your town that will pay you minimum wage to flyer cars.
I was more referring to the law school that Barbell and I attended posting one such job on Symplicity.

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JazzOne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:09 pm

Bedsole wrote:
typ3 wrote:Worse. You can normally find a pizza place or other business in your town that will pay you minimum wage to flyer cars.
I was more referring to the law school that Barbell and I attended posting one such job on Symplicity.

Lol. My school frequently posts Symplicity ads for entry-level LSAT instructors. Things are rough out there for JDs.

I do some side work for a major test prep company, and we have four JDs teaching LSAT in our office. Two of them practiced law for a decade.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:14 pm

sparty99 wrote:$60,000 is quite ambitious for consulting. Especially considering those are not high cost of cities (except Chicago, which is only a small bump in salary if any). You are more likely to get $45-$60 base. Possibly bonus or OT eligible depending on the firm. If you have no work experience, then you are most likely no different then a bachelors. However, depeding on the firm, they might have special recruiting for JDs/MDs. You would most likely be at the Analyst/Associate level (the lowest track, whatever the firm might call it). There is really no solid advice, but to apply. To all the firms. Your undergrad gpa is low, you should only put your major gpa. You would need to show that you have strong analytical skills by indicating that you majored in finance, engineering, math, etc. Consulting/I-Banking recruiting has been happening since September. It is likely to end very soon. You are already late to the game if this is the path that you want. You must also be a guru in Excel and Access. Don't think that just because you have a JD, consulting firms will want you. Everyone wants consulting/banking.


I have work experience. At a fortune 50 company as an analyst. And a JD, so I AM different than a bachelors. My major GPA is also about a 3.0. I just don't put any GPA from undergrad and focus on my solid law school GPA and work experience.

I'm not late to the game, I've been applying. I'm just trying to think what else that I can be doing. And I also already have an offer (waiting on salary and benefits though) but it isn't in one of my ideal markets and likely will be lower than I'd like to make.

Not shooting down your advice, but you haven't said anything valuable for me. I'm sure someone else will get some use out of it.

typ3 wrote:What firms besides HFT care about math beyond maybe calc 1? It's all about excel ninjaing. One thing too is to try to get in with an AA/PE firm that needs people on the operational side if you have mgmt experience. Modeling is ez. It's the execution and management of transactions that is hard. FWIW Chris, I have a few friends that broke into Ibanking in MPLS by just cold calling every single day at places until eventually there was an opening. He had a background in accounting.. like a 3.0 gpa and his relevant work experience was setting up cubicles and being an Abercrombie store "model."


I wish firms cared more about math. I could rely on my math grades/test scores to get a jerb.

I might actually do that... Does cold calling work? I assumed they'd all just say "yeah, apply online."

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typ3
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:18 pm

chrisbru wrote:
sparty99 wrote:$60,000 is quite ambitious for consulting. Especially considering those are not high cost of cities (except Chicago, which is only a small bump in salary if any). You are more likely to get $45-$60 base. Possibly bonus or OT eligible depending on the firm. If you have no work experience, then you are most likely no different then a bachelors. However, depeding on the firm, they might have special recruiting for JDs/MDs. You would most likely be at the Analyst/Associate level (the lowest track, whatever the firm might call it). There is really no solid advice, but to apply. To all the firms. Your undergrad gpa is low, you should only put your major gpa. You would need to show that you have strong analytical skills by indicating that you majored in finance, engineering, math, etc. Consulting/I-Banking recruiting has been happening since September. It is likely to end very soon. You are already late to the game if this is the path that you want. You must also be a guru in Excel and Access. Don't think that just because you have a JD, consulting firms will want you. Everyone wants consulting/banking.


I have work experience. At a fortune 50 company as an analyst. And a JD, so I AM different than a bachelors. My major GPA is also about a 3.0. I just don't put any GPA from undergrad and focus on my solid law school GPA and work experience.

I'm not late to the game, I've been applying. I'm just trying to think what else that I can be doing. And I also already have an offer (waiting on salary and benefits though) but it isn't in one of my ideal markets and likely will be lower than I'd like to make.

Not shooting down your advice, but you haven't said anything valuable for me. I'm sure someone else will get some use out of it.

typ3 wrote:What firms besides HFT care about math beyond maybe calc 1? It's all about excel ninjaing. One thing too is to try to get in with an AA/PE firm that needs people on the operational side if you have mgmt experience. Modeling is ez. It's the execution and management of transactions that is hard. FWIW Chris, I have a few friends that broke into Ibanking in MPLS by just cold calling every single day at places until eventually there was an opening. He had a background in accounting.. like a 3.0 gpa and his relevant work experience was setting up cubicles and being an Abercrombie store "model."


I wish firms cared more about math. I could rely on my math grades/test scores to get a jerb.

I might actually do that... Does cold calling work? I assumed they'd all just say "yeah, apply online."


I guess it worked for him. I imagine that it is pretty hit or miss. I think it took him about 3 months to find his position, but I don't know how diligent he was since he was playing call of duty for most of the day.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:25 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:The schools have hit a new low today. Symplicity posted a a CLE event as a "position" that actually charges YOU to attend. We have slowly evolved from posting jobs with good pay to jobs with bad pay to volunteer gigs and are now at posting things that actually TAKE your money.

It's time to strike out on your own, maybe with a buddy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7QtRCGQmrc

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:34 pm

Bedsole wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:The schools have hit a new low today. Symplicity posted a a CLE event as a "position" that actually charges YOU to attend. We have slowly evolved from posting jobs with good pay to jobs with bad pay to volunteer gigs and are now at posting things that actually TAKE your money.

Better or worse job than putting flyers on cars?


Tough to say. I mean by taking the flyers job you're essentially communicating to the world that you have failed miserably, but at least you get your $10/hr wage. With the CLE you can still keep up appearances and make up stories about how important this CLE is to your practice, but then you're actually paying THEM to do it. We should ask Don Riley for the answer to this conundrum.

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typ3
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby typ3 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:38 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
Bedsole wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:The schools have hit a new low today. Symplicity posted a a CLE event as a "position" that actually charges YOU to attend. We have slowly evolved from posting jobs with good pay to jobs with bad pay to volunteer gigs and are now at posting things that actually TAKE your money.

Better or worse job than putting flyers on cars?


Tough to say. I mean by taking the flyers job you're essentially communicating to the world that you have failed miserably, but at least you get your $10/hr wage. With the CLE you can still keep up appearances and make up stories about how important this CLE is to your practice, but then you're actually paying THEM to do it. We should ask Don Riley for the answer to this conundrum.


No. In no way is the seminar better, you're just falling back into the trap. Money talks, bull shit walks. At least if you're putting flyers on cars you can market your experience to businesses outside of law, like plumbing etc. You prove that you're willing to do work that no one else wants to do. That being said, you guys should really consider moving to NE or the Dakotas. Not exactly the warmest places to live but there's a definite population boom and shortage of workers. The trades are booked almost 6 months out and places like web development are backlogged 22 months for projects.

Just be like Charlie Munger when you graduate from LS and pick out a place on a map that is growing and is relatively small so you'll have opportunities in and outside of law.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:01 pm

typ3 wrote:No. In no way is the seminar better, you're just falling back into the trap. Money talks, bull shit walks. At least if you're putting flyers on cars you can market your experience to businesses outside of law, like plumbing etc. You prove that you're willing to do work that no one else wants to do. That being said, you guys should really consider moving to NE or the Dakotas. Not exactly the warmest places to live but there's a definite population boom and shortage of workers. The trades are booked almost 6 months out and places like web development are backlogged 22 months for projects.

Just be like Charlie Munger when you graduate from LS and pick out a place on a map that is growing and is relatively small so you'll have opportunities in and outside of law.


You must be trolling.

Edit: did not mean to be anon for this, pressed the wrong button. I'm Pretzel.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lwoods » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:15 pm

If you're a 3L, CLEs can be good networking (and there should usually be a discount for students if it's not free). I went to a lunch a couple months ago, met an attorney from a firm I had applied to, and she mentioned having just gotten my resume the night prior. I got an interview. Maybe I would have gotten it anyway, but I'm sure it didn't hurt to put a face to a resume.

CLEs should definitely NOT be listed as jobs, though, lol.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:17 pm

Lwoods wrote:CLEs should definitely NOT be listed as jobs, though, lol.



JFC CDOs.




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