The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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JazzOne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JazzOne » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:17 pm

chrisbru wrote:Submitted an app for a compliance position at a company I interned at in undergrad and would love to go back to. They want someone with 6–8 years experience or a JD/MBA. I don't have the MBA part, but I did state in my cover letter that I would begin the MBA part-time immediately upon graduation from law school. Here's hoping I get an interview at least.

Did you make any friends or contacts inside the firm? I'd start circling the wagons now if you want this one.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:27 pm

JazzOne wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Submitted an app for a compliance position at a company I interned at in undergrad and would love to go back to. They want someone with 6–8 years experience or a JD/MBA. I don't have the MBA part, but I did state in my cover letter that I would begin the MBA part-time immediately upon graduation from law school. Here's hoping I get an interview at least.

Did you make any friends or contacts inside the firm? I'd start circling the wagons now if you want this one.


Yup, I actually got the job posting through an internal referral, so he got to write a personal recommendation when I submitted the application. I also asked a few others in the company that I knew to recommend me.

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JazzOne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JazzOne » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:31 pm

chrisbru wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Submitted an app for a compliance position at a company I interned at in undergrad and would love to go back to. They want someone with 6–8 years experience or a JD/MBA. I don't have the MBA part, but I did state in my cover letter that I would begin the MBA part-time immediately upon graduation from law school. Here's hoping I get an interview at least.

Did you make any friends or contacts inside the firm? I'd start circling the wagons now if you want this one.


Yup, I actually got the job posting through an internal referral, so he got to write a personal recommendation when I submitted the application. I also asked a few others in the company that I knew to recommend me.

Be diligent and organized about following up with your contacts. Ask them for specifics. Perhaps they could each draft a paragraph or two for your application file? I would also follow up with the hiring manager. I rarely get job offers unless I initiate a lot of engagement with the hirer/interviewer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:39 pm

Two weeks ago, I received an email from the HR department notifying me that I was not selected for the position. A few hours later, I received an additional ding e-mail from the recruiter. As if one ding was not sufficient!

I didn't think any form of rejection could surpass that until today. Today, I received a PHONE CALL from an employer in which I had a callback with last week, telling me that they are moving forward with another candidate. :x :x :cry: :cry:

Thanks, but no thanks. This could have been disclosed in an e-mail. When I received the call, I was so excited! I thought I was finally leaving the vale! So much for wishful thinking.

I find it so hard these days to pay attention in class and to keep up with readings and papers. 3L year is so depressing! I feel like I have sacrificed so much and worked so hard, but have NOTHING to show for myself! : :cry: :cry:

I am awaiting one more decision from a callback. I guess that's my last ounce of hope. But getting rejection after rejection, it's so hard to keep my head up. :cry: :cry:

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:55 pm

JazzOne wrote:Be diligent and organized about following up with your contacts. Ask them for specifics. Perhaps they could each draft a paragraph or two for your application file? I would also follow up with the hiring manager. I rarely get job offers unless I initiate a lot of engagement with the hirer/interviewer.


Yup, they are able to write a paragraph about "area of interest" (why I'm interested in the position and what I can bring to the table) and "good fit reasons" which details why I'd be a good fit for the company. It's a heavily automated system, so there isn't even hiring manager involvement until I pass all of the computer screenings. Once I find out who it is, I plan on following up.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Two weeks ago, I received an email from the HR department notifying me that I was not selected for the position. A few hours later, I received an additional ding e-mail from the recruiter. As if one ding was not sufficient!

I didn't think any form of rejection could surpass that until today. Today, I received a PHONE CALL from an employer in which I had a callback with last week, telling me that they are moving forward with another candidate. :x :x :cry: :cry:

Thanks, but no thanks. This could have been disclosed in an e-mail. When I received the call, I was so excited! I thought I was finally leaving the vale! So much for wishful thinking.

I find it so hard these days to pay attention in class and to keep up with readings and papers. 3L year is so depressing! I feel like I have sacrificed so much and worked so hard, but have NOTHING to show for myself! : :cry: :cry:

I am awaiting one more decision from a callback. I guess that's my last ounce of hope. But getting rejection after rejection, it's so hard to keep my head up. :cry: :cry:


It's gonna be ok.

We just have to Dory this shit. Just keep swimming.

We're all gonna get jobs.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:39 pm

I interviewed a few weeks ago for a full-time position (I already graduated, passed the bar and am admitted, but still have not been able to find a job), and a secretary in the office called me a week later to tell me that they will be bringing me back in for a second interview, but she would have to get back to me about scheduling because the partner was out of town at a conference. I was excited about the good news, and I was willing to patiently wait until they scheduled me for the second interview, because she told me that it will happen. Well, another week and half go by and I don't hear anything, so I leave her a voicemail just to follow up and touch base. A few more days go by, then finally the secretary calls me back to tell me that they are re-evaluating their hiring needs but she would keep my resume on file.

Maybe that was the truth, maybe it wasn't. But I think they just went with someone else. WTF?? You call to specifically tell me I am getting a second interview and now this? Has this kind of thing happened to other people?

Also, to the person who posted about the rejection phone calls on the previous page - I have gotten a rejection phone call and know what it's like. To see the phone number on your caller ID and get your hopes up, thinking you are about to get an offer, just to be told they went with someone else... it's the worst!

whatsyourdeal
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:00 pm

Had 10 interviews in the last two months. One callback, got rejected as they went with another applicant. Half the places I interviewed at were terrible firms/companies where the risk of committing malpractice was high, the pay was low, and the exit options murky at best.

Got an interview at a big ID firm, thought it would be a great opportunity. Found out their billables were 200 hours a month. And the pay was substantially low (50k). That's like making 15 bucks an hour with no time off.

Just keep hanging in there bros. The market sucks, but we'll make it through.

luckyjd
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby luckyjd » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:10 pm

accepted a clerkship. 3L is finally looking promising. it's been a tough couple of months, good luck everyone!

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:07 pm

Congrats!

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jessuf
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:28 pm

Traveled cross-country for a clerkship interview last week. I put in my cover letter that I wanted to be a public defender after completing a clerkship and was told repeatedly by different individuals in the interview that I would not be working on any criminal appeals, which I said was fine because xyz. I talked up my ties to the area and why I wanted to practice in that state. I thought everything went well and that I also had a good personal connection with each person, and I got a lot of praise on my GPA and other school accomplishments. I was told at the end of the interview that decisions are usually not made until Dec. 1 but that they might start making offers as early as next week. Turns out my rejection letter was mailed just a couple days after my interview when I know they weren't even done interviewing people. Ouch.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:56 pm

Jessuf wrote:Traveled cross-country for a clerkship interview last week. I put in my cover letter that I wanted to be a public defender after completing a clerkship and was told repeatedly by different individuals in the interview that I would not be working on any criminal appeals, which I said was fine because xyz. I talked up my ties to the area and why I wanted to practice in that state. I thought everything went well and that I also had a good personal connection with each person, and I got a lot of praise on my GPA and other school accomplishments. I was told at the end of the interview that decisions are usually not made until Dec. 1 but that they might start making offers as early as next week. Turns out my rejection letter was mailed just a couple days after my interview when I know they weren't even done interviewing people. Ouch.


I know this is little consolation, but as a clerk who's currently helping 2 judges (mine and another, new judge without clerks) to hire a clerk, I can tell you the process can be very arbitrary. And you can't tell what the judge is looking for. Mine is looking for a more seasoned attorney, but you'd never know that unless you talked with her.

thatgirlthere
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby thatgirlthere » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:14 pm

Job title: Staff Attorney - Entry Level

Job location: Austin, TX 78752 United States

Requisition code:

Date posted: 10/15/13

Job type: Full-Time

Compensation: Competitive compensation and benefits.

Job Classification

Job Category: Attorney

Job Description
Job description:

National Western Life Insurance Company is a life insurance company, chartered in the State of Colorado in 1956, and doing business in forty-nine states, the District of Columbia and four U.S. territories or possessions.

National Western operates within segments organized along product types and geographic marketing areas. These operating segments include domestic life insurance, international life insurance, and annuities.

BASIC PURPOSE:

Provide analysis and counsel on legal issues. Anticipate and guard against legal risks facing the company. Recommend and develop company policy and position on legal issues. Provide counsel to managers on legal matters impacting their areas of responsibility. Prepare various legal documents and participate in legal actions. Rely on experience and judgment to plan and accomplish goals.

Work under general to minimal supervision of, and report directly to, Senior VP of the law department.

Creativity and latitude is required.

ESSENTIAL DUTIES & RESPONSIBILITIES

-Work under general supervision.
-Provide analysis and counsel on legal issues that may rise to a more sensitive and complex nature.
-Handle a wide variety of general corporate transactional matters.
-Anticipate and guard against legal risks by proactively identifying and solving legal issues throughout the company.
-Assist officers/managers with drafting, reviewing, and administering company products and draft and review marketing material and forms related to company products.
-Manage litigation involving monetary claims or more legal issues and work with outside counsel during each state of litigation, including legal pleadings, motions, mediations, settlement discussions, discovery issues, general and specific strategy etc. Determine and report the effectiveness of outside counsel in order to enhance the efficient and skill with which future litigation is handled.
-Provide legal counsel on issues arising from actual and anticipated litigation.
-Develop and recommend company policy and position on legal issues and implement any required changes.
-Conduct and coordinate research into a variety of legal issues.
-Write, negotiate, review, and help administer contracts for all departments of the company and in varies areas of law.
-Participate directly in hiring law clerks and other support staff and supervise projects assigned.
-Provide leadership on company committees and projects and preside over such committees and projects as needed.
-Represent the company to outside parties, administrative, and regulatory bodies at state and federal levels.
-Perform other duties as assigned by the Sr. VP of the law department.


Job Requirements
Education, training, experience:

Must be a graduate of an accredited law school.

Required 0-5 years experience.

Please include salary with resume.


Sorry this was so long, I just copy+pasted the whole thing.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:05 pm

That sucks Jessuf, sorry.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:42 am

whatsyourdeal wrote:Had 10 interviews in the last two months. One callback, got rejected as they went with another applicant. Half the places I interviewed at were terrible firms/companies where the risk of committing malpractice was high, the pay was low, and the exit options murky at best.

Got an interview at a big ID firm, thought it would be a great opportunity. Found out their billables were 200 hours a month. And the pay was substantially low (50k). That's like making 15 bucks an hour with no time off.

Just keep hanging in there bros. The market sucks, but we'll make it through.



Ten interviews is a lot, man.

JDCA2012
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JDCA2012 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:19 pm

sparty99 wrote:
whatsyourdeal wrote:Had 10 interviews in the last two months. One callback, got rejected as they went with another applicant. Half the places I interviewed at were terrible firms/companies where the risk of committing malpractice was high, the pay was low, and the exit options murky at best.

Got an interview at a big ID firm, thought it would be a great opportunity. Found out their billables were 200 hours a month. And the pay was substantially low (50k). That's like making 15 bucks an hour with no time off.

Just keep hanging in there bros. The market sucks, but we'll make it through.



Ten interviews is a lot, man.


Yeah, seriously.
I have a final round interview today, first job I've been in serious running for since March. This post-grad vale has not been kind, I am hoping and praying that this one could be it.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:11 pm

JDCA2012 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
whatsyourdeal wrote:Had 10 interviews in the last two months. One callback, got rejected as they went with another applicant. Half the places I interviewed at were terrible firms/companies where the risk of committing malpractice was high, the pay was low, and the exit options murky at best.

Got an interview at a big ID firm, thought it would be a great opportunity. Found out their billables were 200 hours a month. And the pay was substantially low (50k). That's like making 15 bucks an hour with no time off.

Just keep hanging in there bros. The market sucks, but we'll make it through.



Ten interviews is a lot, man.


Yeah, seriously.
I have a final round interview today, first job I've been in serious running for since March. This post-grad vale has not been kind, I am hoping and praying that this one could be it.


I hope this one works out for you!!! :D

whatsyourdeal
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:43 pm

JDCA2012 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
whatsyourdeal wrote:Had 10 interviews in the last two months. One callback, got rejected as they went with another applicant. Half the places I interviewed at were terrible firms/companies where the risk of committing malpractice was high, the pay was low, and the exit options murky at best.

Got an interview at a big ID firm, thought it would be a great opportunity. Found out their billables were 200 hours a month. And the pay was substantially low (50k). That's like making 15 bucks an hour with no time off.

Just keep hanging in there bros. The market sucks, but we'll make it through.



Ten interviews is a lot, man.


Yeah, seriously.
I have a final round interview today, first job I've been in serious running for since March. This post-grad vale has not been kind, I am hoping and praying that this one could be it.


good luck on your interview!

as for the 10 interviews, yeah i got really lucky getting interviewed that many times in the past few months. especially since i was just licensed in june. 10 interviews is a lot in 2 months, but so is 10 rejections. most of the places, i was glad to be rejected from or take myself out of the running, as they were either unethical SPs, small firms with bad working environments (based on the type of work, partner, etc.), a recruiter, companies who wanted a lawyer figurehead as in-house counsel and a big insurance defense firm that required 200 billables a month with 50-60k salary. Of the 10 interviews, only 3 turned out to be really good small firms, and i got a callback on one of those that i lost out to. my confidence has taken a big hit, but i just gotta march forward. i'm also very lucky to be currently working as an attorney (albeit being paid as a clerk) to pad my resume, and also not be forced to take one of those crap jobs i interviewed for.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:26 pm

Jessuf wrote:Traveled cross-country for a clerkship interview last week. I put in my cover letter that I wanted to be a public defender after completing a clerkship and was told repeatedly by different individuals in the interview that I would not be working on any criminal appeals, which I said was fine because xyz. I talked up my ties to the area and why I wanted to practice in that state. I thought everything went well and that I also had a good personal connection with each person, and I got a lot of praise on my GPA and other school accomplishments. I was told at the end of the interview that decisions are usually not made until Dec. 1 but that they might start making offers as early as next week. Turns out my rejection letter was mailed just a couple days after my interview when I know they weren't even done interviewing people. Ouch.

Sorry to hear. Happened to me too... I had what I thought was a great interview. I was really excited (which could have been too much based on advice I got in this topic recently). Two partners and I talked and had some good moments for 90 minutes. Managing partner told me he had fun, there was nothing he saw that would be an issue as to my skills... Got a rejection letter mailed the next business day. No response to a nice email asking for feedback. :?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:27 pm

I never understand the ID firms that require 200 billables a month. At 50 billables per week I'd have to work a bare minimum of 70 hour weeks, on a good week. So you want me to pull 70-80 hour weeks biglaw style for a third of a biglaw salary?

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MG95
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby MG95 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:33 pm

.
Last edited by MG95 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

whatsyourdeal
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:33 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:I never understand the ID firms that require 200 billables a month. At 50 billables per week I'd have to work a bare minimum of 70 hour weeks, on a good week. So you want me to pull 70-80 hour weeks biglaw style for a third of a biglaw salary?


yeah thats utter garbage. those kind of billables lead one of two things: cutting corners to bill or working yourself to death. if i was getting paid somewhat well, i could see there being a choice. at 50-60k, i'd rather not. especially when i already have a job that pays a better rate with lesser hours.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:01 pm

Yeah, eff that for less than $120K a year.

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withoutapaddle
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby withoutapaddle » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:34 pm

If you're going to do an MBA, look at European 1 year programs (Cambridge, Oxford, Insead, LBS). Cheaper, shorter, international experience will look good, easier to get into than say HBS, Standford, Yale ect.

I was actually looking at Northwestern's three year JD/MBA, but the thought of 106K a year made me sick. $318,000.00 of debt is insane, and to be honest I think guaranteed loans are the problem. Schools can charge whatever they want knowing you can pay for it through government loans (they even conveniently put the link to fasa on their sites).

Depending on what you focused on in law school, you may be able to get the MBA and move into consulting.

Depends on your financial situation.

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northwood
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby northwood » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:41 pm

Northwestern costs 106K A YEAR???




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