The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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northwood
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby northwood » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:18 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
MrAnon wrote:The CSO can't invent jobs out of thin air where there are none. Its ludicrous to get mad at them because you put yourself in a bad situation. They are not there to save you. They are there to coordinate for the employers that do want to recruit on campus.

Anyone saying that people in this thread "put [themselves] in a bad situation" is an asshole who needs to GTFO.

+ a milllion

jarofsoup
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jarofsoup » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:22 pm

I do not want to get into the CSO debate b/c I am deep in the vale. But is actually has been quite useful for me to become buddy buddy with the staff of the office. They all know me, my interest, and seem to channel opportunities my way.

While I do not disagree that they can sometimes suck. Get to know them.

Void
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:25 pm

MrAnon wrote:The CSO can't invent jobs out of thin air where there are none. Its ludicrous to get mad at them because you put yourself in a bad situation. They are not there to save you. They are there to coordinate for the employers that do want to recruit on campus.


Like I said, I went to a second tier school. There WERE no employers who wanted to recruit on campus. My CSO accomplished nothing. They literally just held presentations where they told us that there were no jobs for us. I understand that this wasn't CSO's fault, but I still don't understand why CSO even existed at my school.

Plus, what everyone else said about you being a fucktard.

JDCA2012
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JDCA2012 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:45 pm

Void wrote:
MrAnon wrote:The CSO can't invent jobs out of thin air where there are none. Its ludicrous to get mad at them because you put yourself in a bad situation. They are not there to save you. They are there to coordinate for the employers that do want to recruit on campus.


Like I said, I went to a second tier school. There WERE no employers who wanted to recruit on campus. My CSO accomplished nothing. They literally just held presentations where they told us that there were no jobs for us. I understand that this wasn't CSO's fault, but I still don't understand why CSO even existed at my school.


Did you go to my school....?! Just described my experience

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:17 pm

jarofsoup wrote:I do not want to get into the CSO debate b/c I am deep in the vale. But is actually has been quite useful for me to become buddy buddy with the staff of the office. They all know me, my interest, and seem to channel opportunities my way.

While I do not disagree that they can sometimes suck. Get to know them.


this has been my experience. One of the staff at my CSO is wonderful and yeah, she can't invent jobs out of thin air, but she's been very helpful and encouraging to me (and several of my friends also in the Vale). Another one of them...lol, she's ridiculous, but she's friendly and she tries hard at least.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:30 pm

The CSO problem is really an interesting one cause I bet there are some CSO offices that do good work, they are just few and far between. I 100% agree that CSO cannot simply make jobs appear, but given the state of the job market the school needs to have like 1-2 people working at that office, not 6. If there are no jobs to begin with, then fire the other 4 people who are doing nothing all day and collecting a paycheck and use their 4 salaries to cut every student in the school a break of 2K on tuition. Every time I have ever walked into CSO while at school there were 6 women sitting around talking about makeup, shoes and what shows they are watching. No work was being done. Whatever work that office accomplished could have easily been done by 2 people who had a normal attention span. I think that after reviewing resumes, cover letters, dropping names of contacts, working on mock interviews, giving you ideas to job search, telling you of all the sites you should be regularly checking, looking over your writing sample and working on your informational interview skills there is little more CSO can really do but tell you to keep at it and continue to look on your behalf as well. The problem is that 99% of CSOs will not do anywhere close to the above.

My favorite story of CSO lazyness is the following: During 1L we had a panel with CSO so students can voice ways CSO could help them. I had what I thought was a very good idea. I said that CSO should spend a week or two calling the chambers of every judge in the area (secondary market, maybe 100 judges total) and speak with the clerks there about who the judge is hiring and what they are looking for. Then CSO could post a list of judges that are hiring for the summer, what class level they are looking for, what their requirements are (Grades, journal, etc.), how many spots, where to send apps to and what materials they prefer. This way, instead of basically mass mailing all the state judges as a 1L you would have a list of what to send, to who, and who would actually take a 1L and with whom you're just wasting your time. CSO said they did not feel that my plan was time-efficient and the office did not have the manpower to call and collect that information because they were doing other things.....you do NOTHING all day. This would cost you literally no money and would make it really easy for people to apply to clerkships. You just got lazy cause this plan actually made you, you know, do your job.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:50 pm

Wow. My school has four CSO people, one of whom is purely administrative, so three counselors. And they still managed to do exactly what you describe for local judges. (They had that info for all the state COA and SC judges, all the local district judges, all the federal circuit judges for our circuit, and then for various state trial judges depending on their location.) I feel better for thinking they were reasonably decent at their job.

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mr. wednesday
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:46 am

My career services had almost 20 employees in it which is insane.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:15 am

j
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Dr. Review
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Dr. Review » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:22 am

BarbellDreams wrote: This would cost you literally no money and would make it really easy for people to apply to clerkships. You just got lazy cause this plan actually made you, you know, do your job.

Dude, our 1L CSO made ATL for being so bad. Also, if you remember the student panel group they had for bouncing ideas off of people, this was the idea I submitted that got me the spot in that panel. It was never done.

I also don't know if you remember that there used to be a list of small and mid law shops in our market on the school website. When it got too outdated to be useful, I suggested they update it. Instead, they deleted it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:35 am

Part of the problem with CSO at my T2 was that they were still approaching the job search by asking us what we wanted to do, and encouraging us to essentially pigeonhole ourselves by focusing upon a specific goal. So as a dizzy 1L you walk in for your first OCS meeting and say "I want to practice International Environmental Lawl!" and then they would encourage you to seek out classes and internships in that (impossible) field.

Like every T2, my school is very regional. The only people who got jobs did so by maximizing their real world experience and thereby networking (the effective way; not the schmoozy way) with tons of lawyers in our little region. And it's good to have goals but bad to nail yourself to a single career- getting a job is as much something that happens TO you as it is something you do, and it's good to just kind of let things develop organically...

My point is that my CSO is essentially using the Harvard hiring model (I.e. one where employers are competing for law students rather than vice versa) instead of taking a realistic look at the actual job possibilities for my school and directing people accordingly.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby deadpanic » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:22 am

Mine was pretty similar to what others have said. My biggest issue was that they were simply not reaching out to alumni and others. We have one other law school in my state. It is a TTTT and viewed as an inferior school, but they had many more employers. It finally came to light that their CSO was proactive and called lawyers, law firms, judges, etc. and asked them if they were hiring, even part time, and got many more to come to campus. Ours was completely lazy and the only thing they would do is post the Symplicity list and OCI list of those that wanted to come. That's it.

They also edited your resume or cover letter...but one of the CSO ladies actually typed her emails in Comic Sans font (swear to God) so no way I was sending any shit to her.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:38 am

Bedsole wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote: This would cost you literally no money and would make it really easy for people to apply to clerkships. You just got lazy cause this plan actually made you, you know, do your job.

Dude, our 1L CSO made ATL for being so bad. Also, if you remember the student panel group they had for bouncing ideas off of people, this was the idea I submitted that got me the spot in that panel. It was never done.

I also don't know if you remember that there used to be a list of small and mid law shops in our market on the school website. When it got too outdated to be useful, I suggested they update it. Instead, they deleted it.


Remember extranet? Remember how extranet had listed jobs from 2007 and clerkships for judges that already died?

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:09 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
ninereal wrote:read: "oh god please do anything that makes you not our problem any more"


Pretty much.

Since 3L year last year, my CDO cleaned a fair amount of house. It wasn't an improvement. Their feedback about my updated resume was akin to making the font smaller to fit more stuff in. I'm using a smaller font in size 11. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate it when people review my resume to improve it, but feedback such as "What does this sentence even mean?" Or "Use this verb instead of that one" is more helpful. Who knows, maybe my resume was as good as it was going to be in their eyes, besides the font. That in and of itself is kinda rage inducing.


They did this same crap to me. Except their only advice was "take the /4.00 part off your GPA."

BarbellDreams wrote:
1. How do they expect you to target other markets when you already took the bar in a specific state? Outside of clerkships which the majority of are filled I'm not sure what they want you to do applying to Denver while not licensed in CO.
2. I think CSO would LOVE for people to get an MBA cause when they come out of the MBA program unemployed CSO can just say its the MBA school's fault and not take any blame.


I'm not a post-graduation valer yet, so I haven't taken he bar. But my resume pretty much screams "this is the city I want to live in and if I come work somewhere else I'll leave to go back there as soon as I can" because of how much I've worked there, even though that isn't true.

But, yeah, I think that was her motivation about the MBA. Although to be completely honest I doubt I'd come out of MBA school unemployed.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:01 pm

Officially rejected from all firms I've done callback with. feelsbadman

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mr. wednesday
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:09 pm

chrisbru wrote:I'm not a post-graduation valer yet, so I haven't taken he bar. But my resume pretty much screams "this is the city I want to live in and if I come work somewhere else I'll leave to go back there as soon as I can" because of how much I've worked there, even though that isn't true.

I think you'd be surprised. Obviously ties are helpful and sometimes necessary but if you can tell a compelling narrative, you can do without. I had no ties or experience with the area where I ended up, but was able to convince the hiring committee that I was willing to move there and would stay put once I did.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:11 pm

chrisbru wrote:Officially rejected from all firms I've done callback with. feelsbadman

Damn I am sorry brother

That sucks ass; I hope things turn around for you soon

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:42 pm

rad lulz wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Officially rejected from all firms I've done callback with. feelsbadman

Damn I am sorry brother

That sucks ass; I hope things turn around for you soon

Void
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:34 pm

rad lulz wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Officially rejected from all firms I've done callback with. feelsbadman

Damn I am sorry brother

That sucks ass; I hope things turn around for you soon

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fish tacos
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby fish tacos » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:25 am

How does the Vale approach symplicity postings? If the job posting has the "apply here" button where you upload your docs and submit through symplicity but also has detailed contact information, do you apply through symplicity or submit directly to the employer? Or is the smart move to do both?

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JuTMSY4
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JuTMSY4 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:35 am

fish tacos wrote:How does the Vale approach symplicity postings? If the job posting has the "apply here" button where you upload your docs and submit through symplicity but also has detailed contact information, do you apply through symplicity or submit directly to the employer? Or is the smart move to do both?


When you send it yourself, you know it was sent. I've heard horror stories of schools screening people out - who knows if it's true. I guess you could always call and ask what they prefer (or phrase as "paper app or simplicity/electronic?")

I'll toss in my 2 cents of sage advice to the vail. I received a call during bar prep from a mass mailing I sent in February - over 4 months after I sent it. got a callback, got an offer, took the job. Subsequently, I got callbacks from a few other places that I had either forgetten about or didn't expect much from. When it rains it pours. All of those were from applications I had diligently put in months earlier and followed up with.

My point is, just keep moving folks, and things will happen.
Hang in their guys, your time will come.
Last edited by JuTMSY4 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:37 am

mr. wednesday wrote:
chrisbru wrote:I'm not a post-graduation valer yet, so I haven't taken he bar. But my resume pretty much screams "this is the city I want to live in and if I come work somewhere else I'll leave to go back there as soon as I can" because of how much I've worked there, even though that isn't true.

I think you'd be surprised. Obviously ties are helpful and sometimes necessary but if you can tell a compelling narrative, you can do without. I had no ties or experience with the area where I ended up, but was able to convince the hiring committee that I was willing to move there and would stay put once I did.


I think this is largely dependent on region. I'm not originally from the state where I'm barred and despite my extensive ties here (and my home state is on my resume only ONE TIME from six years ago) I'm still branded a flight risk. :|

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:04 pm

Found this while doing my daily search all the law firm websites. Could help one of you CA bros:

Entry Level Corporate Associate in Los Angeles Office

The Los Angeles office of Holland & Knight has an immediate need for an entry level corporate associate. The candidate must be a self starter with excellent writing skills and a strong academic background. A financial background and/or business acumen is a plus. Holland & Knight’s Los Angeles office possesses a collegial atmosphere and provides its attorneys with tangible opportunities for professional growth and advancement. All inquiries will be held in strict confidence. To apply, please use the careers page on our website at http://www.hklaw.com and submit a cover letter, resume, law school transcript and writing sample. Please note, applications that do not contain both a transcript and a writing sample will not be considered. Direct applicants only - no search firm submissions. EOE. AA M/F/D/V

Job Requirements:
Self starter
Excellent writing skills
Strong academic background
Financial background and/or business acumen is a plus

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:57 pm

Submitted an app for a compliance position at a company I interned at in undergrad and would love to go back to. They want someone with 6–8 years experience or a JD/MBA. I don't have the MBA part, but I did state in my cover letter that I would begin the MBA part-time immediately upon graduation from law school. Here's hoping I get an interview at least.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:02 pm

Good luck Chris!




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