The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So for all those that are struggling to find work, why not just go solo for a bit? I know it'll be tough but some $$ is better than nothing right? Especially since you guys would be considered "over qualified" for retail positions. Also, how deep into debt are you guys? Would you say that there is still a significant advantage in going to a tier 1 school over a TTTT given the tough market all around?

I would say that most of us here are in debt which is all the reason not to go solo because more often than not you need to spend money to go solo. If I could do it all over, I'd probably go to the T4 that offered me $$$ than go to Boston U at sticker. At least then I wouldn't be starting this $200k debt in the face with no jerb even if I lost the scholly at the T4

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JazzOne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JazzOne » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So for all those that are struggling to find work, why not just go solo for a bit? I know it'll be tough but some $$ is better than nothing right? Especially since you guys would be considered "over qualified" for retail positions. Also, how deep into debt are you guys? Would you say that there is still a significant advantage in going to a tier 1 school over a TTTT given the tough market all around?

I went to law school on a full scholarship, so my debt is comparatively low. I thought about going solo for a while, but that was a terrifying prospect to me. I am extremely glad that I took the scholarship money instead of attending a T14 for prestige. My only regret is that I didn't apply to any T14 schools. In retrospect, I might have been able to snag significant scholarship money from a T14, but that's water under the bridge. My low debt allows me to leave the practice of law and pursue academia. I have been much happier since I made that decision.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:59 pm

mr. wednesday wrote:I agree with the sentiment of staying positive but at the same time, sometimes telling people that just gives them another thing to feel bad/guilty about, like they can't even be upset at a legitimately terrible situation.

I think if you are hunting for a job, you should let yourself feel whatever you are feeling, whether it's upset or rejected or hopeless or whatever. Just don't wallow in it and remember that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. You will get a job, whether it's your ideal job or something not even in law, whether it happens now or months from now. Your self worth is not tied to being a lawyer.

And if you are overwhelmed by the negativity, that doesn't mean you are doing something wrong in not staying positive. It just means it might be time to talk to a therapist who can help you get perspective.

Million times this

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:13 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
whatsyourdeal wrote:been awfully silent in symplicity. hopefully, things start to pick up a little bit before the holidays.

Let us all hope that's the case.

I'm so tired of getting screwed and being jobless. I would have such a low sense of self-worth if I didn't have such an enormous ego to compensate. Thank goodness for that; otherwise I would be utterly depressed.

Saying that you're "getting screwed" is sort of shirking your own responsibility, no? We all knew the risks going in. We all knew it was a stacked deck. We all hoped we could beat the odds.

Having said that, I totally understand the frustration. I became bitter when my job search didn't go as well as I had hoped.

Meh I feel I got screwed. Busted my ass 1L, got good grades, transferred, hustled like crazy, got a 2L SA, worked hard in the summer and did good work while being socially accepted (100% positive reviews), was recommended to be hired by the office I summered at, then got my offer vetoed by the firm's home office because they weren't meeting their financial numbers. I'm not saying there aren't a few things I wish I did differently or better, but I've reviewed my circumstances and i think i can say the bottom line is I got screwed.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:29 pm

I got sworn in today and I feel like absolute crap about my job prospects right now.

Sigh. I really hope one of the interviews I just had comes through.

tsutsik
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby tsutsik » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:49 pm

JazzOne wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So for all those that are struggling to find work, why not just go solo for a bit? I know it'll be tough but some $$ is better than nothing right? Especially since you guys would be considered "over qualified" for retail positions. Also, how deep into debt are you guys? Would you say that there is still a significant advantage in going to a tier 1 school over a TTTT given the tough market all around?

I went to law school on a full scholarship, so my debt is comparatively low. I thought about going solo for a while, but that was a terrifying prospect to me. I am extremely glad that I took the scholarship money instead of attending a T14 for prestige. My only regret is that I didn't apply to any T14 schools. In retrospect, I might have been able to snag significant scholarship money from a T14, but that's water under the bridge. My low debt allows me to leave the practice of law and pursue academia. I have been much happier since I made that decision.


I'm curious about how you plan to "pursue academia." Are you either teaching at - or trying to teach at - a law school? Are you trying to teach at the undergraduate level? If the latter, do you have some non-JD degree that you think will land you teaching work?

Nevermind. I should have just looked at your profile.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:07 pm

I am very close two very different job offers, both of which I gave mixed feelings about. Long-term earning and career potential for both is complicated. I'd be thrilled with either offer but confused if I had to make a choice. But just to simplify things, can someone help me understand how meaningful public interest loan forgiveness is? For argument's sake assume I stay in both of the following jobs for 10 years with small but consistent raises each year.

Job 1: Private practice, 70k
Job 2: Public interest, 50k

Factor in a spouse in school with no income now but a mid sixties income in two to three years. Meaning the extra cash now is nice.

I have to weigh job security, earning potential, career goals etc. but just want some insight into how to weigh the loan forgiveness in the equation. If I go private practice I am not averse to paying the minimum possible each month for 25 years, investing savings, then taking the tax hit of 25 year loan forgiveness under IBR. It seems like big law is the only way to plausibly pay down the principal and have any kind of qol. 135k total debt. Thanks everyone. I may get neither of these jobs but want to have my thoughts in order.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Geist13 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:33 pm

Leaving the vale, for now. State trial level clerkship, so a salary for the next year or two until I can convince the local DA to hire me. Relieved as shit. Good luck to all. My only advice is that if you're looking to clerk in the local court, get to know judges. Many of those clerkships go unposted and if you're not an internal candidate (ie career clerk switching between judges) your only shot is to know a judge who will go to bat for you.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:36 pm

Geist13 wrote:Leaving the vale, for now. State trial level clerkship, so a salary for the next year or two until I can convince the local DA to hire me. Relieved as shit. Good luck to all. My only advice is that if you're looking to clerk in the local court, get to know judges. Many of those clerkships go unposted and if you're not an internal candidate (ie career clerk switching between judges) your only shot is to know a judge who will go to bat for you.

Grats mang!

luckyjd
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby luckyjd » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:44 pm

Congratulations! I'm also waiting to hear on a state clerkship, crossing my fingers to get good results like you.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:06 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:Guys, I'm leaving my firm job this week and am gonna start my own practice next week. If anyone wants to join my firm I've already bought out the domain http://www.justgosolo.com. Partnership will require a $50,000 buy in, I know y'all have it.



I'm in. I go solo all the time. Otherwise I have to hear about my wife's headache.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:08 pm

Pretzel_Logic wrote:I got sworn in today and I feel like absolute crap about my job prospects right now.

Sigh. I really hope one of the interviews I just had comes through.


Good luck!

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:10 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Geist13 wrote:Leaving the vale, for now. State trial level clerkship, so a salary for the next year or two until I can convince the local DA to hire me. Relieved as shit. Good luck to all. My only advice is that if you're looking to clerk in the local court, get to know judges. Many of those clerkships go unposted and if you're not an internal candidate (ie career clerk switching between judges) your only shot is to know a judge who will go to bat for you.

Grats mang!

02122015
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 02122015 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:22 pm

Those of you who are in long-term job hunt situations, are you doing non-legal stuff in the meantime to make money? I'm living at home and don't have rent payments, but I do have odd bills to pay and need spending money, so I'm thinking about going back to the temp agency I had success with before law school and looking for part-time work while I look for legal gigs.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:31 pm

Geist13 wrote:Leaving the vale, for now. State trial level clerkship, so a salary for the next year or two until I can convince the local DA to hire me. Relieved as shit. Good luck to all. My only advice is that if you're looking to clerk in the local court, get to know judges. Many of those clerkships go unposted and if you're not an internal candidate (ie career clerk switching between judges) your only shot is to know a judge who will go to bat for you.



Congratulations, that's great.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:32 pm

MSPeast wrote:Those of you who are in long-term job hunt situations, are you doing non-legal stuff in the meantime to make money? I'm living at home and don't have rent payments, but I do have odd bills to pay and need spending money, so I'm thinking about going back to the temp agency I had success with before law school and looking for part-time work while I look for legal gigs.


I had a lot of luck emailing small or solo firms around me and doing contract legal work from home. Writing briefs, research, etc. Most attorneys are too busy or lazy to do it themselves. Pretty good gigs, and decent money.

02122015
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 02122015 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:39 pm

kalvano wrote:
MSPeast wrote:Those of you who are in long-term job hunt situations, are you doing non-legal stuff in the meantime to make money? I'm living at home and don't have rent payments, but I do have odd bills to pay and need spending money, so I'm thinking about going back to the temp agency I had success with before law school and looking for part-time work while I look for legal gigs.


I had a lot of luck emailing small or solo firms around me and doing contract legal work from home. Writing briefs, research, etc. Most attorneys are too busy or lazy to do it themselves. Pretty good gigs, and decent money.

How did you deal with Westlaw/Lexis? Did the firms give you log-ins or something?

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am very close two very different job offers, both of which I gave mixed feelings about. Long-term earning and career potential for both is complicated. I'd be thrilled with either offer but confused if I had to make a choice. But just to simplify things, can someone help me understand how meaningful public interest loan forgiveness is? For argument's sake assume I stay in both of the following jobs for 10 years with small but consistent raises each year.

Job 1: Private practice, 70k
Job 2: Public interest, 50k

Factor in a spouse in school with no income now but a mid sixties income in two to three years. Meaning the extra cash now is nice.

I have to weigh job security, earning potential, career goals etc. but just want some insight into how to weigh the loan forgiveness in the equation. If I go private practice I am not averse to paying the minimum possible each month for 25 years, investing savings, then taking the tax hit of 25 year loan forgiveness under IBR. It seems like big law is the only way to plausibly pay down the principal and have any kind of qol. 135k total debt. Thanks everyone. I may get neither of these jobs but want to have my thoughts in order.


I'd choose whichever seems more interesting to you since they seem about equal in recompense.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:02 pm

MSPeast wrote:
kalvano wrote:
MSPeast wrote:Those of you who are in long-term job hunt situations, are you doing non-legal stuff in the meantime to make money? I'm living at home and don't have rent payments, but I do have odd bills to pay and need spending money, so I'm thinking about going back to the temp agency I had success with before law school and looking for part-time work while I look for legal gigs.


I had a lot of luck emailing small or solo firms around me and doing contract legal work from home. Writing briefs, research, etc. Most attorneys are too busy or lazy to do it themselves. Pretty good gigs, and decent money.

How did you deal with Westlaw/Lexis? Did the firms give you log-ins or something?


I'm sort of doing this (for one sprawling case with a solo guy) and he just gave me access to the building's conference room and his Lexis login. I'd imagine that's par for the course.

If I don't have something solid by December I'm doing doc review. Not glamorous but it's money.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:25 pm

MSPeast wrote:
kalvano wrote:
MSPeast wrote:Those of you who are in long-term job hunt situations, are you doing non-legal stuff in the meantime to make money? I'm living at home and don't have rent payments, but I do have odd bills to pay and need spending money, so I'm thinking about going back to the temp agency I had success with before law school and looking for part-time work while I look for legal gigs.


I had a lot of luck emailing small or solo firms around me and doing contract legal work from home. Writing briefs, research, etc. Most attorneys are too busy or lazy to do it themselves. Pretty good gigs, and decent money.

How did you deal with Westlaw/Lexis? Did the firms give you log-ins or something?


I was still using my school login, but there are several good alternatives that you can afford out of pocket.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:43 pm

Just got dinged on that job I was waiting to hear from.

Nice rejection letter, my wife tells me.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:49 pm

spleenworship wrote:Just got dinged on that job I was waiting to hear from.

Nice rejection letter, my wife tells me.


Sorry to hear that buddy.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:50 pm

Only posting this anon since I don't want to give away the geographical area. Apparently a nearby large county just posted an attorney opening on its site, as a public listing. The county itself has quite a large population, but the county seat is on the opposite end of the county from where most of the population is--but only 15 minutes away from where I live. Starting salary is about $55K or so. Still a long shot, but the job description doesn't outright require previous legal employment, so I'm definitely gonna apply to it.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:57 pm

Good luck.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:07 pm

Pretzel_Logic wrote:
If I don't have something solid by December I'm doing doc review. Not glamorous but it's money.


I am setting my deadline around January, but yeah, if not employed by 2014 I'm not sure what choice I'll have. By then my savings will be in a pretty dire state.




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