The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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stressed2010
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby stressed2010 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:46 pm

TAKE. THE. JOB.


Definitely take the job. A girl from my school started at one of the Big 4 and within 8 months landed a big law gig in their tax department. I'm in the philadelphia market, sounds like the secondary market you're talking about. So yes there is hope that you'll be able to transition into law. I think firms are understanding that it's a ridiculous job market right now and quite honestly having ANY work experience whatsoever puts you ahead of 50% of law graduates who are struggling to even find their first jobs. We live in scary times.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Just to clarify when I say "sounds like the market you're talking about" I meant similar size etc not that you're in Philadelphia!

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:53 pm

spleenworship wrote:Maybe they have several positions to fill?


I hope so. It's a <25 attorney firm though, so that would be surprising. Maybe they know of a couple people leaving though.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
fish tacos wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've been following this thread since the summer. I'm currently a 3L at a lower TT. I'm top 15%, e-board of secondary journal, specialty moot court, 4 years w/e before law school. I struck out at my school's small OCI. I hustled at 2L job fairs and had 3 CBs with big firms in different markets, but didn't get an offer. I worked balls my 2L summer working 2 state gov't internships to get experience. Then this fall I only got 1 interview from my school's tiny 3L OCI. Did the CB last week. Got the offer today.

The thing is that it's not a job practicing law. It's with a Big 4 accounting firm, secondary market. It's a market I have fairly strong interest in.

I have slightly over $100k in debt combined from UG and LS. It feels irresponsible to even consider turning the offer down in this job market given my school rank & stats.

But I came to law school because I want to practice law. My preliminary research indicates that it is really hard to switch from B4 to any size law firm. And I'm afraid I'm going to be pigeonholed into tax/transactional for the entire rest of my career, even if I successfully make the jump to a law firm in a few years. I'm interested in tax, which is why I applied in the first place. But I partially thought I had no chance at the job because I was so used to being rejected from everything.

The advice on this thread is the most grounded I've found in my 3+ years browsing this site. Thoughts?



What exactly will you be doing at the Big4? I assume if they came to your law school's OCI it must be at least tangentially related to law, enough so that if you keep up your bar admission and stay active in the local bar you can move out to a firm eventually. I assume it's nothing as "legal" as the in-house legal department, but you mentioned it would be tax and transactional related. So what is your job title? If it's anything close to law, I'd take it and not look back.


OP here: Position title is Tax Consultant. First couple of years sitting in a cubicle, doing compliance (read: corporate tax returns).

Salary is lower than what most mid-law firms pay in my region. But I do know that there can be aggressive pay raises in the B4, so there is opportunity to catch up in 2-3 years.

A few people have suggested taking the job and reneging if I get something better. I'm honestly not sure how wise that is in a smaller community.

But I appreciate everyone's feedback tremendously.


TAKE. THE. JOB.


I was a 3L with similar stats as you, but I went to a much better school. I only got one offer. What makes you think you'll be different?


My killer swagger :lol:

But no, seriously, absolutely nothing makes me think I'm different.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:27 pm

Sometimes I get so frightened over the uncertainties of the future and whether or not I'll ever get a job that will make it worthwhile for me to have gone into 6 figures of debt that I'm mentally paralyzed and I feel like I can't breathe, much less accomplish anything worthwhile.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:18 pm

A friend of mine applied for hundreds of jobs with no interviews prior to bar results came out. 2 weeks after results he had 2 job offers. Keep the hope up.

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:37 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:A friend of mine applied for hundreds of jobs with no interviews prior to bar results came out. 2 weeks after results he had 2 job offers. Keep the hope up.


yep, no offer for me yet but all of a sudden i'm getting interviews all over the place now that I'm licensed. patience is obviously difficult but you gotta keep at it.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:50 pm

Pretzel_Logic wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:A friend of mine applied for hundreds of jobs with no interviews prior to bar results came out. 2 weeks after results he had 2 job offers. Keep the hope up.


yep, no offer for me yet but all of a sudden i'm getting interviews all over the place now that I'm licensed. patience is obviously difficult but you gotta keep at it.

Are you getting interviews from places that you applied to before results, or new places you applied to after?

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:23 pm

a male human wrote:
Pretzel_Logic wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:A friend of mine applied for hundreds of jobs with no interviews prior to bar results came out. 2 weeks after results he had 2 job offers. Keep the hope up.


yep, no offer for me yet but all of a sudden i'm getting interviews all over the place now that I'm licensed. patience is obviously difficult but you gotta keep at it.

Are you getting interviews from places that you applied to before results, or new places you applied to after?


Both.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:32 pm

hundreds of applications sent and followed up. Responses to said applications have been some form of "not interested in you". Feeling absolutely worthless, and am down to the last glimmer of any hope. At this point im pot committed to finishing this damned degree, but would it really be a bad move to just drop out with a semester and a quarter left and forego it? I feel as though that when I do graduate, the degree will not be used. I just want a job, any job. So as I stand at the edge of the law school abyss.. should I take one more step forward and jump( and jump out of the shackle that is the JD program), or should I back away and fight on towards graduation day, then with the degree in hand use the summer to ramp up making myself in demand[ either with or without a bar exam]?

( note this is just about leaving law school, not this world. I have too much great going on in my life to do that))

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Pretzel_Logic
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pretzel_Logic » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:hundreds of applications sent and followed up. Responses to said applications have been some form of "not interested in you". Feeling absolutely worthless, and am down to the last glimmer of any hope. At this point im pot committed to finishing this damned degree, but would it really be a bad move to just drop out with a semester and a quarter left and forego it? I feel as though that when I do graduate, the degree will not be used. I just want a job, any job. So as I stand at the edge of the law school abyss.. should I take one more step forward and jump( and jump out of the shackle that is the JD program), or should I back away and fight on towards graduation day, then with the degree in hand use the summer to ramp up making myself in demand[ either with or without a bar exam]?

( note this is just about leaving law school, not this world. I have too much great going on in my life to do that))


The only question is whether you want to practice law. If yes, keep marching through the Vale. If no, get out.

And honestly if I were an employer I'd look askance at someone who dropped out in the middle of fall semester of 3L. I guess what I'm saying is don't close any doors you don't have to for the future. Not having something lined up by October of 3L is neither uncommon nor the end of the world, although I know having perspective is really, really difficult in that spot. Good luck dude.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:09 pm

I'd say finish it. The time to drop out is after 2L OCI. Not now.

YMMV

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:36 pm

I went into law school with the single-minded view of if you get good grades, everything will fall into place. I busted my ass 1L year, had great grades, got nothing I wanted 1L summer, got disgusted when I wasn't getting INTERVIEWED when my friends with ties to the market with much lower grades were snagging choice summer jobs, so I lateral transferred out (lower t60 to lower t50) with my faith shaken and hoped that a change of scenery would help me better as I didn't much care for the law school I went to.

But I never got that motivation from 1L year back, I have middling grades now (especially because 1L grades don't factor into transfer GPA), no journal or moot court, and am deeply deeply stressed out to the point where thinking about law school makes me sick to my stomach and I grind my teeth at night and cause enamel damage. I could actually bump my GPA up from ~50ith percentile to top 1/3 if I really busted my ass, but I JUST DONT HAVE THE MOTIVATION. It's a slippery slope that though I want a job, the more I think about not having a job, the less I want to do anything related to law school, including attempting to find a job.

I don't care where I end up. I just need to make some money to stave off the crippling student loans. I don't have it in me to network. I am beyond desperate, but I am so so so so weary of this entire process.

VALE TAKE ME

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I went into law school with the single-minded view of if you get good grades, everything will fall into place. I busted my ass 1L year, had great grades, got nothing I wanted 1L summer, got disgusted when I wasn't getting INTERVIEWED when my friends with ties to the market with much lower grades were snagging choice summer jobs, so I lateral transferred out (lower t60 to lower t50) with my faith shaken and hoped that a change of scenery would help me better as I didn't much care for the law school I went to.

But I never got that motivation from 1L year back, I have middling grades now (especially because 1L grades don't factor into transfer GPA), no journal or moot court, and am deeply deeply stressed out to the point where thinking about law school makes me sick to my stomach and I grind my teeth at night and cause enamel damage. I could actually bump my GPA up from ~50ith percentile to top 1/3 if I really busted my ass, but I JUST DONT HAVE THE MOTIVATION. It's a slippery slope that though I want a job, the more I think about not having a job, the less I want to do anything related to law school, including attempting to find a job.

I don't care where I end up. I just need to make some money to stave off the crippling student loans. I don't have it in me to network. I am beyond desperate, but I am so so so so weary of this entire process.

VALE TAKE ME



If you're willing to take anything just to make money, there's always doc review. It ain't glamorous, but it pays the bills, especially if you're fluent in another language, like japanese. It might not be too late to get rosetta stone.

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mr. wednesday
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:50 pm

Well first you should get a mouthguard to sleep in. Teeth grinding can cause jaw issues later, plus fixing tooth damage is expensive and unpleasant.

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JazzOne
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby JazzOne » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I went into law school with the single-minded view of if you get good grades, everything will fall into place. I busted my ass 1L year, had great grades, got nothing I wanted 1L summer, got disgusted when I wasn't getting INTERVIEWED when my friends with ties to the market with much lower grades were snagging choice summer jobs . . . .

This is my story exactly, so I can relate. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:49 pm

I'm tearing my hair out waiting to hear back from my callbacks. I had trouble sleeping last night for the first time in a while. feelsbadman.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:23 pm

Last week, my phone interviewer at a company I applied to said she "really liked me" and that she'd get in touch with her hiring manager who's returning to the office "early next week" (which is now this week) and then get back to me. How long I should I wait until I assume I bombed the interview and/or follow up?

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:27 pm

Pretzel_Logic wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:hundreds of applications sent and followed up. Responses to said applications have been some form of "not interested in you". Feeling absolutely worthless, and am down to the last glimmer of any hope. At this point im pot committed to finishing this damned degree, but would it really be a bad move to just drop out with a semester and a quarter left and forego it? I feel as though that when I do graduate, the degree will not be used. I just want a job, any job. So as I stand at the edge of the law school abyss.. should I take one more step forward and jump( and jump out of the shackle that is the JD program), or should I back away and fight on towards graduation day, then with the degree in hand use the summer to ramp up making myself in demand[ either with or without a bar exam]?

( note this is just about leaving law school, not this world. I have too much great going on in my life to do that))


The only question is whether you want to practice law. If yes, keep marching through the Vale. If no, get out.

And honestly if I were an employer I'd look askance at someone who dropped out in the middle of fall semester of 3L. I guess what I'm saying is don't close any doors you don't have to for the future. Not having something lined up by October of 3L is neither uncommon nor the end of the world, although I know having perspective is really, really difficult in that spot. Good luck dude.

Agree

No sense dropping out w 5 semesters tuition paid

As for job search, just gotta remember you're in it for the long haul

Sucks but the games the game

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:24 pm

I'm supposed to get a definite yes or no on a job in the next 2.5 hours. I've been waiting since 8 am. I'm fricking dying of anxiety here.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:30 pm

I apologize if I am posting to the wrong forum.

Class of 2011 grad here from T-25 school with a computer engineering background. I was no-offered from my 1L summer firm. As expected, I struck out during 2L OCI in 2009 with the no-offer hanging over my head. 3L OCI was a joke. After graduating and passing the bar, I went to work at the PTO as a patent examiner. I've been there for almost two years, but now I am thinking about re-starting my search. Should I leave the "no-offer" 1L firm off my resume?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I apologize if I am posting to the wrong forum.

Class of 2011 grad here from T-25 school with a computer engineering background. I was no-offered from my 1L summer firm. As expected, I struck out during 2L OCI in 2009 with the no-offer hanging over my head. 3L OCI was a joke. After graduating and passing the bar, I went to work at the PTO as a patent examiner. I've been there for almost two years, but now I am thinking about re-starting my search. Should I leave the "no-offer" 1L firm off my resume?

I think it depends on why you were no-offered 1L summer? Also, getting no offered 1L summer isn't typically as bad as getting no-offered 2L summer (like me) so the stigma is probably lessened a bit.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:43 pm

a male human wrote:Last week, my phone interviewer at a company I applied to said she "really liked me" and that she'd get in touch with her hiring manager who's returning to the office "early next week" (which is now this week) and then get back to me. How long I should I wait until I assume I bombed the interview and/or follow up?

Probably another week. I would probably send a follow up next week; definitely no sooner.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I apologize if I am posting to the wrong forum.

Class of 2011 grad here from T-25 school with a computer engineering background. I was no-offered from my 1L summer firm. As expected, I struck out during 2L OCI in 2009 with the no-offer hanging over my head. 3L OCI was a joke. After graduating and passing the bar, I went to work at the PTO as a patent examiner. I've been there for almost two years, but now I am thinking about re-starting my search. Should I leave the "no-offer" 1L firm off my resume?


No. I'm sure they won't even ask. And if they do, tell them you didn't want to work in that city or it was too small of a firm or they wanted you to do corporate work and you wanted litigation or due to the economy, they were unable to offer all the summers. They will mostly care about your current job. The fact that you have been there for two years should be enough assurance that you are not a dead beat.

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Bikeflip
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:48 pm

Pretzel_Logic wrote:
a male human wrote:
Pretzel_Logic wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:A friend of mine applied for hundreds of jobs with no interviews prior to bar results came out. 2 weeks after results he had 2 job offers. Keep the hope up.


yep, no offer for me yet but all of a sudden i'm getting interviews all over the place now that I'm licensed. patience is obviously difficult but you gotta keep at it.

Are you getting interviews from places that you applied to before results, or new places you applied to after?


Both.



Encouraging to hear, bros. As someone who just passed this past week, any tips on the post-pass search? Besides updating materials, are you doing anything differently?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:51 pm

Bikeflip wrote:

Encouraging to hear, bros. As someone who just passed this past week, any tips on the post-pass search? Besides updating materials, are you doing anything differently?


Outside of volunteering part time to make some new contacts, get into the courtroom and avoid that resume blank I'm not exactly sure what else you could do.




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