The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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20160810
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 20160810 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:
kalvano wrote:At what point do you pass from persistent to annoying when emailing a firm? My summer firm was supposed to meet on hiring after Labor Day, I never heard back so I emailed, was told it had been pushed back, so I waited a while and emailed again, same story. Finally, was told that hiring was on the agenda for the second week of November and I would hear back shortly thereafter.

Is it too soon to email with a "hi, remember me?" email? I've already pretty much written off the job at this point.

I hate to say it dude, but at this point it's time to start full-on job hunting, and if they give you a call in the next couple weeks, call it a pleasant surprise. If they were serious about this it wouldn't have taken them until now.


In fairness, there's just a gigantic amount of uncertainty in the world right now. Is Europe going to implode? Will we fail to have a deal that averts the fiscal cliff? A firm wanting more time to think over offers could reflect that as much as anything else. It's obviously not a good sign, though, and definitely proof that you should be pretty damn committed to the job search process.

Kalvano's a solid bro and I really hope this is the case and he gets the offer, but at this point it's not worth losing a precious month of job-hunt time over.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:59 pm

So should I go ahead and email them and ask what's the deal, yo? Or should I give them a couple weeks? My natural tendency is to send one, because it's fucking rude to do it like this, but then again, they were awesome over the summer and are notoriously slow / terrible about getting back to people, with both good or bad news.

I don't want to be annoying, but I want a straight answer.

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20160810
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 20160810 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:20 pm

kalvano wrote:So should I go ahead and email them and ask what's the deal, yo? Or should I give them a couple weeks? My natural tendency is to send one, because it's fucking rude to do it like this, but then again, they were awesome over the summer and are notoriously slow / terrible about getting back to people, with both good or bad news.

I don't want to be annoying, but I want a straight answer.

I don't see anything to be gained by emailing then dude. They know you worked there this summer, and they know they haven't gotten back to you yet. Much as it sucks, you're kinda just riding on their time right now.

Just start your job search and hope you hear back. If you haven't heard by January, I'd phone and ask what the deal is. Emails are too easy to ignore.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:30 pm

SBL wrote:
kalvano wrote:So should I go ahead and email them and ask what's the deal, yo? Or should I give them a couple weeks? My natural tendency is to send one, because it's fucking rude to do it like this, but then again, they were awesome over the summer and are notoriously slow / terrible about getting back to people, with both good or bad news.

I don't want to be annoying, but I want a straight answer.

I don't see anything to be gained by emailing then dude. They know you worked there this summer, and they know they haven't gotten back to you yet. Much as it sucks, you're kinda just riding on their time right now.

Just start your job search and hope you hear back. If you haven't heard by January, I'd phone and ask what the deal is. Emails are too easy to ignore.


Gotta agree. If you got close to someone there, it might be useful to drop them a few lines from time (in a conversational tone) just to keep your name fresh in their minds, but when it looks like you're hassling them it's a negative.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:32 pm

I suppose so. Hopefully my clerkship interview or a couple other things I have working will come through and it won't matter at all.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Omerta » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:44 am

I remain in the Vale since my lotto aspirations didn't work out.

Kalvano, sorry that your firm isn't getting back to you. I agree that you just have to assume the worst and keep at it. I have a clerkship opportunity that I've been waiting to hear back on for nearly 1.5 months. Waiting sucks.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:04 am

I got no-offered right after the election. In a way, I felt better afterwards than I did while I was waiting. Though I would have definitely preferred a different outcome. Closure's damn good, ya know?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:11 am

Omerta wrote:I remain in the Vale since my lotto aspirations didn't work out.

Kalvano, sorry that your firm isn't getting back to you. I agree that you just have to assume the worst and keep at it. I have a clerkship opportunity that I've been waiting to hear back on for nearly 1.5 months. Waiting sucks.

If it makes you feel better brother, I waited over 2 months after my interview before I got my clerkship offer. Judges can be slow, and it's probably not a huge priority.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:I got no-offered right after the election. In a way, I felt better afterwards than I did while I was waiting. Though I would have definitely preferred a different outcome. Closure's damn good, ya know?

Dude +1

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:24 am

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got no-offered right after the election. In a way, I felt better afterwards than I did while I was waiting. Though I would have definitely preferred a different outcome. Closure's damn good, ya know?

Dude +1


This. I didn't get a good, clean no-offer at my summer firm, so I'm working under the assumption that there's PROBABLY nothing there, but still not sure that that's absolutely the case. Kinda shitty.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:22 am

Had a second round interview with a big 4 (I have a lot of tax experience during law school, RA for tax professor, intern for gov tax agency). Recruiter at the end told me that I would hear at the beginning of this week. Silence. Senator Clay Davis still hasn't finished saying sheeeeeeeeeeit in my head. And of course, I havn't gotten a sniff from any other accounting firm no matter how many times I try.

With 0 legal connections, I'm hoping for the .01% chance I get an offer from the gov agency or that my school will still give tax LLM's to unemployed grads for free. All attempts I've made into asking admins about this results in an almost disgusted look, they did it in for 2010 grads publically, tried to keep it hush for 2011, and I have no clue if anyone from 2012 got it. Alternatively, since I'm IBR'ing it anyways, I may just do a NYU LLM. It's not like I'll ever pay it back anyways, and if I can't figure out how to minimize the taxes owed on the forgiven principal at the end of 20 years, then I will have failed at my chosen profession.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby TTH » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Had a second round interview with a big 4 (I have a lot of tax experience during law school, RA for tax professor, intern for gov tax agency). Recruiter at the end told me that I would hear at the beginning of this week. Silence. Senator Clay Davis still hasn't finished saying sheeeeeeeeeeit in my head. And of course, I havn't gotten a sniff from any other accounting firm no matter how many times I try.

With 0 legal connections, I'm hoping for the .01% chance I get an offer from the gov agency or that my school will still give tax LLM's to unemployed grads for free. All attempts I've made into asking admins about this results in an almost disgusted look, they did it in for 2010 grads publically, tried to keep it hush for 2011, and I have no clue if anyone from 2012 got it. Alternatively, since I'm IBR'ing it anyways, I may just do a NYU LLM. It's not like I'll ever pay it back anyways, and if I can't figure out how to minimize the taxes owed on the forgiven principal at the end of 20 years, then I will have failed at my chosen profession.


Hope you get good news from the accounting firm. Doubling down on a year of NYC COL loans doesn't seem like the answer, though.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 2LsAPlenty » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:52 pm

With finals and the holidays, I don't see much happening for a while. So silence should not always mean rejection.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Kobe824 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:57 pm

2LsAPlenty wrote:With finals and the holidays, I don't see much happening for a while. So silence should not always mean rejection.


Yep, I've had a few interviews recently and I've been told to expect to wait a few weeks before any decisions are made.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:24 pm

TTH wrote:Hope you get good news from the accounting firm. Doubling down on a year of NYC COL loans doesn't seem like the answer, though.


Thanks, not a preferred location, but anything is better than moving back into parents (had to do after undergrad).

There's nice charts in this report that show the new changes to IBR: http://www.newamerica.net/publications/ ... r_windfall

If I can't get into the new IBR, I'm pretty much left with the option of living a shitty life in the US or expatriating to some island country. If I can get into the new IBR, then the insane interest that will accumulate won't matter.

Once you reach the level of debt I'm at, the new IBR (once pay as you earn goes through) actually becomes a joke that you can totally abuse. My only problem is an 11k consolidated undergrad loan that prevents me from being in the 10% for 20 years category, resulting in the 15% for 25 years. You have to have all loans after 2008, and a loan after 2011 to qualify. I'm thinking that if I can pay off that loan pre 2008, all my law school loans should qualify. I have money saved, but not enough to cover that 11k. If I max my second semester loan and bar loan, I can probably pay that thing off and enroll in the obama IBR. I need to talk to my financial aid lady at school to make sure I would still qualify first though. Since the US clearly doesn't actually want to fix the economy, I'll just be one of the people collecting handouts and mooching off the rich/lucky.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'll just be one of the people collecting handouts and mooching off the rich/lucky.

No shame bro

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:59 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'll just be one of the people collecting handouts and mooching off the rich/lucky.

No shame bro

No shame at all. I gave it a good try, and that's what the US school systems have been force feeding generations to do. I can't help that I graduated with a 3.9 finance degree when the market crashed and couldn't find a job except at trader joe's. I can't help that my crim professor asked why I was focusing so much on the MPC when she reviewed a practice exam for me, only to have 1/3 of the final being a comparison between MPC and cases, dropping my rank from top 15% to top 25%. They say if you can't beat em, join em. Well, I can't join em, so I'm going to (hopefully) live off em.

I did enjoy when I set up a meeting with the Dean in March last year and he asked me why I didn't have anything lined up for the summer yet. I need to get an interview to be able to get a job was my response. I told him I can bring in the 300 or so rejection letters and print out however many of the hundreds of e-mail rejections that would still be in my deleted folder. And to finish my rant for the day, I'd like to apoligize for being in an awful mood.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:53 pm

What was the Dean's response? I am sure it had to do with something you must be doing wrong.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby dreakol » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What was the Dean's response? I am sure it had to do with something you must be doing wrong.


probably that he wasn't networking enough

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:04 pm

Gotta love deans.

What's everyone's approach to the break? Trying to beg small firms for crumbs? Volunteering at a DA or PD to pad the resume a bit?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:35 pm

dreakol wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What was the Dean's response? I am sure it had to do with something you must be doing wrong.


probably that he wasn't networking enough


Dean's response was actually reinforcing. He acknowledged it was hard to sell interest in small midwestern cities with no ties, that the school was struggling in Chicago, and he said he was going to make some calls. I ended up finding an unpaid PI gig that would be really flexible a week or so later so I just took that. No idea what happened with the calls, I told him I got the PI gig, and he obviously suggested I just do that.

I'm not planning on working anywhere over break. I've been working full time for free since the end of May (summer and full-time at an agency this semester). I plan on making contact with some firms in the city I'm going to be in, sign up for the mid-year tax conference, and hopefully get lucky somewhere. I'll probably make contact with career services a couple times to stay on their radar. Oh, and drink heavily.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:39 pm

Need some advice everyone. I'm currently working at two firms this semester and both want me to continue working there this coming semester. I'm feeling burned out after doing it for an entire semester and am considering tossing my eggs into Firm #1 and going that route, but I want to hear your advice. There's a possibility of employment at both. I have good grades (comfortably top 20%) and have strong local ties. Previous experience includes a semester a federal agency, in-house, and a RA job.

Firm #1: national plaintiff class action firm. Two offices in two different jurisdictions totaling 15 attorneys. Primary practice areas are consumer fraud (what I'm doing with them now), antitrust, M&A, securities, whistleblower, etc. They pay market -what that is, I'm not sure. Litigation is almost exclusively in federal courts and a lot of MDL stuff (obviously). The attorneys I work for both really like me (personality and work) and want to up my hours so I can get exposure to other partners for my benefit if a spot opens up for an associate next year. I like the work but P side stuff is... odd. It's relaxing but they only pick winners, so I feel like the skillset I'll get is narrow. The office culture is a bid odd - everyone is very to themselves and there is minimal support staff.

Firm #2: local 30 attorney defense firm. Only office and it's pretty far out location wise (the first firm is right a long a train stop, so I could live wherever). They do a lot of municipal representation, in addition to PI, comm lit, and all that. Getting out there takes me about an hour all said right now (leaving at 6:30 am and getting home around 8:30pm). I like the work but it's pretty low profile. I've done a lot of small claims work and a decent bit of employment work. The office culture is great and everyone is helpful and nice. There's a metric fuck ton of support staff. If it was closer, I'd like it more.

Anyone care to weigh in? Both are pressuring me to come back and I don't know if I can do it for another semester (although the money is nice, if I do both again I'd clear around 3k/month). I'm also thinking going full speed at one would up my offer chance since I wouldn't be stretched nearly as much. Part of me thinks I'm crazy for turning one down when I have no guarantee of an offer at either.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:08 pm

Go to whichever you feel has the best chance to make you a permanent offer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:08 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Go to whichever you feel has the best chance to make you a permanent offer.

Chances of an offer at both come down to need, so extremely uncertain at either place, hence the feeling like I'd be making a mistake by ditching either.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:57 pm

Still seeking advice (I'm the anon with the long post)




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