The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:Posting anonymously because someone may be able to identify me from the skimp information, though I'd think not likely.
Turned down a job in OC in March for the simple fact I do not want to live in Southern California - when I say this, I mean no friends, no family. I know a lot of you will say you need to take everything you can get, but this was one of those situations where I wasn't willing to set my life trajectory onto something and some place I didn't want to do/be.
BUT! I have a phone interview in a week for a tax consulting position. Yeah, I know it's only a phone interview, but it's the biggest bite I've had in a LONG time, and haven't had any bites at all (I'm currently doing a post bar clerk position, which will absolutely not lead to full-time). Though it's just a phone interview, I am going to spend the next week prepping and praying to every deity that has every been acknowledged.


Ugh...feel free to message me about that job you turned down, so I can apply. The west coast is the best coast, bro.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:52 am

What happens if you become bar licensed, but you want to work somewhere that's not hiring attorneys? Can you still sell yourself as a "clerk"?

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:11 am

Interviewed for staff attorney job that's supposed to transition to full associate (if you don't suck) yesterday. Always wanted to work at this firm, but now that the opportunity is (possibly) here, I may not want it after all. Lol life.

SMU2013
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby SMU2013 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:39 am

kalvano wrote:Interviewed for staff attorney job that's supposed to transition to full associate (if you don't suck) yesterday. Always wanted to work at this firm, but now that the opportunity is (possibly) here, I may not want it after all. Lol life.


I'll take it.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:43 am

kalvano wrote:Interviewed for staff attorney job that's supposed to transition to full associate (if you don't suck) yesterday. Always wanted to work at this firm, but now that the opportunity is (possibly) here, I may not want it after all. Lol life.


Porque no? I mean, seriously, are they just awful or something?

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.

Postby Myself » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:55 am

.
Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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kalvano
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:01 am

spleenworship wrote:
kalvano wrote:Interviewed for staff attorney job that's supposed to transition to full associate (if you don't suck) yesterday. Always wanted to work at this firm, but now that the opportunity is (possibly) here, I may not want it after all. Lol life.


Porque no? I mean, seriously, are they just awful or something?



No, they are actually supposed to be an awesome firm to work for, one of the best in town. And I wanted to work there before I even started school. But it's still local Biglaw, with the hours that go with it, and I just had a baby boy the night before the interview. I don't know if that sounds whiny or something.

But I've got a second interview with a small firm on Monday morning, and if I got offered both jobs, I'd honestly have to think really hard. The small firm is less money, but significantly less hours too. And a much more chill atmosphere, working for just a couple guys.

rad lulz
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:16 am

kalvano wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
kalvano wrote:Interviewed for staff attorney job that's supposed to transition to full associate (if you don't suck) yesterday. Always wanted to work at this firm, but now that the opportunity is (possibly) here, I may not want it after all. Lol life.


Porque no? I mean, seriously, are they just awful or something?



No, they are actually supposed to be an awesome firm to work for, one of the best in town. And I wanted to work there before I even started school. But it's still local Biglaw, with the hours that go with it, and I just had a baby boy the night before the interview. I don't know if that sounds whiny or something.

But I've got a second interview with a small firm on Monday morning, and if I got offered both jobs, I'd honestly have to think really hard. The small firm is less money, but significantly less hours too. And a much more chill atmosphere, working for just a couple guys.

Grats on the new kiddo bro

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legalese_retard
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby legalese_retard » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:37 am

kalvano wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
kalvano wrote:Interviewed for staff attorney job that's supposed to transition to full associate (if you don't suck) yesterday. Always wanted to work at this firm, but now that the opportunity is (possibly) here, I may not want it after all. Lol lifeNo, they are actually supposed to be an awesome firm to work for, one of the best in town. And I wanted to work there before I even started school. But it's still local Biglaw, with the hours that go with it, and I just had a baby boy the night before the interview. I don't know if that sounds whiny or something.

But I've got a second interview with a small firm on Monday morning, and if I got offered both jobs, I'd honestly have to think really hard. The small firm is less money, but significantly less hours too. And a much more chill atmosphere, working for just a couple guys.


I think I know the firm and they have a really good real estate group. The staff position is in real estate, so you should get really good experience even if you don't stay at the firm. When the real estate market crashed in 2008, the firm was almost to the brink of collapse. A lot of young assocates and summer associates got screwed, but they were doing everything to just survive. So take any promises of transitioning to a full-time associate with a grain of salt. That said, the firm has done a better job with diversifying its practices and opening up new offices. They have been very conservative with their hiring and expenses since then, so I think they are in a much strong position now.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:05 pm

kalvano wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
kalvano wrote:Interviewed for staff attorney job that's supposed to transition to full associate (if you don't suck) yesterday. Always wanted to work at this firm, but now that the opportunity is (possibly) here, I may not want it after all. Lol life.


Porque no? I mean, seriously, are they just awful or something?



No, they are actually supposed to be an awesome firm to work for, one of the best in town. And I wanted to work there before I even started school. But it's still local Biglaw, with the hours that go with it, and I just had a baby boy the night before the interview. I don't know if that sounds whiny or something.

But I've got a second interview with a small firm on Monday morning, and if I got offered both jobs, I'd honestly have to think really hard. The small firm is less money, but significantly less hours too. And a much more chill atmosphere, working for just a couple guys.


1. Mozel Tov on your baby! 2. Dude, as a parent, I hear you about the concerns re: hours. The first time you have to tell a 3 year old "Daddy can't read you goodnight moon or tuck you in tonight because Daddy has to work again tonight" and the piteous crying comes through the phone... Yeah. This is a large part of the reason I had and have no interest in Biglaw. Even at a small firm you have to do this several times a year. Personally, id never want to be in a position where that conversation was the norm, and my kids just stopped expecting me to be home at all.

lukertin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lukertin » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:10 pm

Maybe before the 90's that was true. Many places will let you work from home after standard business hours because now that the technology exists and is relatively cheap to implement, they know failing to offer this benefit means you go somewhere else that does.

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snowpeach06
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby snowpeach06 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:18 pm

kalvano wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
kalvano wrote:Interviewed for staff attorney job that's supposed to transition to full associate (if you don't suck) yesterday. Always wanted to work at this firm, but now that the opportunity is (possibly) here, I may not want it after all. Lol life.


Porque no? I mean, seriously, are they just awful or something?



No, they are actually supposed to be an awesome firm to work for, one of the best in town. And I wanted to work there before I even started school. But it's still local Biglaw, with the hours that go with it, and I just had a baby boy the night before the interview. I don't know if that sounds whiny or something.

But I've got a second interview with a small firm on Monday morning, and if I got offered both jobs, I'd honestly have to think really hard. The small firm is less money, but significantly less hours too. And a much more chill atmosphere, working for just a couple guys.

Congrats! And seriously, less money but more happiness seems like a pretty good trade-off to me. I imagine it would suck to miss all your kids milestones because you are working.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:42 pm

lukertin wrote:Maybe before the 90's that was true. Many places will let you work from home after standard business hours because now that the technology exists and is relatively cheap to implement, they know failing to offer this benefit means you go somewhere else that does.


If you have an 11:59 pm deadline for filing, it really doesn't matter where you are working, you aren't reading Where the Wild Things Are. The bigger the firm, the more deadlines you are likely to be working on project for.

lukertin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lukertin » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:48 pm

spleenworship wrote:If you have an 11:59 pm deadline for filing, it really doesn't matter where you are working, you aren't reading Where the Wild Things Are. The bigger the firm, the more deadlines you are likely to be working on project for.

Sure. But being in the same room as your kid is different from not being there at all.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:59 pm

lukertin wrote:
spleenworship wrote:If you have an 11:59 pm deadline for filing, it really doesn't matter where you are working, you aren't reading Where the Wild Things Are. The bigger the firm, the more deadlines you are likely to be working on project for.

Sure. But being in the same room as your kid is different from not being there at all.


I'm guessing you aren't a parent bro. IMO its worse. Little kids don't understand how momma or dadda is home but not paying attention to them.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:37 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
a male human wrote:What happens if you become bar licensed, but you want to work somewhere that's not hiring attorneys? Can you still sell yourself as a "clerk"?


Yeah, or you can sell yourself as someone who can get barred asap in that state. Start off as a clerk, then convert to lawyer. That's how I would play it.

I'm kind of confused. I'm assuming a scenario where someone IS bar licensed, not someone who can (because he already is). Would an employer consider an attorney as a "clerk" is what I'm wondering.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:56 pm

a male human wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:
a male human wrote:What happens if you become bar licensed, but you want to work somewhere that's not hiring attorneys? Can you still sell yourself as a "clerk"?


Yeah, or you can sell yourself as someone who can get barred asap in that state. Start off as a clerk, then convert to lawyer. That's how I would play it.

I'm kind of confused. I'm assuming a scenario where someone IS bar licensed, not someone who can (because he already is). Would an employer consider an attorney as a "clerk" is what I'm wondering.


i've seen one listing a few months back where a company was seeking a licensed attorney to serve as a law clerk for the gc. i think the listing said something about the possibility of transitioning to legal counsel. so i would definitely not rule out the possibility that you can clerk as a licensed attorney.

@kalvano: congrats on the kid, and good luck on the interviews!

soooo....


had a callback this morning. toughest shit in my life. partners gave me 3 hypos spanning con law and crim pro, did not know how to deal with it. the second question was exercise clause of 1st A, i pulled out the sacramento case out of my ass (pledge of allegiance case). i think i bombed the 1st question.

man, interviewing is so unpredictable, i dont even know what to expect anymore.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:17 pm

whatsyourdeal wrote:
soooo....


had a callback this morning. toughest shit in my life. partners gave me 3 hypos spanning con law and crim pro, did not know how to deal with it. the second question was exercise clause of 1st A, i pulled out the sacramento case out of my ass (pledge of allegiance case). i think i bombed the 1st question.

man, interviewing is so unpredictable, i dont even know what to expect anymore.


Seriously. I almost don't bother to prepare anymore. Maybe we should just shoot the partners interviewing us to ensure more openings for other valers and be done with it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:34 pm

spleenworship wrote:
whatsyourdeal wrote:
soooo....


had a callback this morning. toughest shit in my life. partners gave me 3 hypos spanning con law and crim pro, did not know how to deal with it. the second question was exercise clause of 1st A, i pulled out the sacramento case out of my ass (pledge of allegiance case). i think i bombed the 1st question.

man, interviewing is so unpredictable, i dont even know what to expect anymore.


Seriously. I almost don't bother to prepare anymore. Maybe we should just shoot the partners interviewing us to ensure more openings for other valers and be done with it.

This. I feel like you can avoid a lot of tough questions (and thereby reduce situations where you're put on the spot) by taking control over the interview and making it into a conversation. For example, when I was a 2L, after the typical "tell me about yourself" background stuff, I started asking questions about the interviewer and the company and generally having a conversation with the hiring manager and everyone else. Interviews are two-sided interactions after all. I think it showed my enthusiasm for the company and the field, which was what they were looking for (as one of my interviewers told me at work).

Of course, they can still wrestle control back and ask you tough questions...

whatsyourdeal
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:41 pm

a male human wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
whatsyourdeal wrote:
soooo....


had a callback this morning. toughest shit in my life. partners gave me 3 hypos spanning con law and crim pro, did not know how to deal with it. the second question was exercise clause of 1st A, i pulled out the sacramento case out of my ass (pledge of allegiance case). i think i bombed the 1st question.

man, interviewing is so unpredictable, i dont even know what to expect anymore.


Seriously. I almost don't bother to prepare anymore. Maybe we should just shoot the partners interviewing us to ensure more openings for other valers and be done with it.

This. I feel like you can avoid a lot of tough questions (and thereby reduce situations where you're put on the spot) by taking control over the interview and making it into a conversation. For example, when I was a 2L, after the typical "tell me about yourself" background stuff, I started asking questions about the interviewer and the company and generally having a conversation with the hiring manager and everyone else. Interviews are two-sided interactions after all. I think it showed my enthusiasm for the company and the field, which was what they were looking for (as one of my interviewers told me at work).

Of course, they can still wrestle control back and ask you tough questions...


im of that mentality as well. interviews work better as conversations- when there is open dialogue and communication freely flowing- from both interviewer and interviewee because it can show the interviewee's candor, interest, and intelligence in a manner that's less robotic and automated, i.e. not overly rehearsed. IMHO, it can show off your qualities in a more (seemingly) genuine way.

that's what i did for the first interview. today was the callback, and given that we had already done that dance, i had no idea what to expect for this one. i studied some of the cases that the firm had done enough to talk about, looked up the firm's bios some more, but didn't know what else to talk about. in my initial interview, we pretty much exhausted the courtship phase.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:22 pm

I'm really shocked reading all these posts of people saying "I'm not sure if I'll take it." You kidding bro? I would take a job eating the shit of law firm partners if they paid me.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:22 pm

whatsyourdeal wrote:
a male human wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
whatsyourdeal wrote:
soooo....


had a callback this morning. toughest shit in my life. partners gave me 3 hypos spanning con law and crim pro, did not know how to deal with it. the second question was exercise clause of 1st A, i pulled out the sacramento case out of my ass (pledge of allegiance case). i think i bombed the 1st question.

man, interviewing is so unpredictable, i dont even know what to expect anymore.


Seriously. I almost don't bother to prepare anymore. Maybe we should just shoot the partners interviewing us to ensure more openings for other valers and be done with it.

This. I feel like you can avoid a lot of tough questions (and thereby reduce situations where you're put on the spot) by taking control over the interview and making it into a conversation. For example, when I was a 2L, after the typical "tell me about yourself" background stuff, I started asking questions about the interviewer and the company and generally having a conversation with the hiring manager and everyone else. Interviews are two-sided interactions after all. I think it showed my enthusiasm for the company and the field, which was what they were looking for (as one of my interviewers told me at work).

Of course, they can still wrestle control back and ask you tough questions...


im of that mentality as well. interviews work better as conversations- when there is open dialogue and communication freely flowing- from both interviewer and interviewee because it can show the interviewee's candor, interest, and intelligence in a manner that's less robotic and automated, i.e. not overly rehearsed. IMHO, it can show off your qualities in a more (seemingly) genuine way.

that's what i did for the first interview. today was the callback, and given that we had already done that dance, i had no idea what to expect for this one. i studied some of the cases that the firm had done enough to talk about, looked up the firm's bios some more, but didn't know what else to talk about. in my initial interview, we pretty much exhausted the courtship phase.

Were you scheduled to interview with the same people?

whatsyourdeal
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:06 pm

[/quote]
Were you scheduled to interview with the same people?[/quote]

yup. did not know what to say. looked up their website, studied the cases that they were involved in, read firm atty bios, read various school websites re: callbacks... did not expect hypos. this is a small, 9 attorney firm specializing in a boutique practice too

lukertin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lukertin » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:23 pm

I'd rather take hypos in an interview than some stupid discussion on meaningless bullshit nobody actually cares about. I would have been relieved.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:40 pm

Bombed a "pressure" type interview not too long ago. Where are all the interviews where all you do is have a casual conversation and talk about sports, the ones everyone on here talks about so much. I don't think I've ever had a "normal" interview for a law job.




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