The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:Vale: I was offered an Of Counsel position with a decent sized firm in town. Obviously not ideal, but has anyone taken such an offer or known someone who has taken such an offer? Steady client flow in a field I'm interested in, name goes on the letterhead (with "Of Counsel," obviously), and I essentially make my own schedule and keep what I bring in. There is a fee for the "opportunity," but it's very reasonable considering I'll have an office, assistant, print/fax/email, a runner, and immediate access to clients. I was entertaining the thought of solo practice. I have access to an office that I'd only have to pay utilities on, and this seems like a much better option given the client flow.

Bump - thanks everyone.

lukertin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lukertin » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:16 am

Is that like a situation where you are basically a solo practitioner but have access to a firm's resources? If this includes mentoring / training when you need it, yes, you should take it. Plenty of people have started out this way and it is invaluable.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:27 am

lukertin wrote:Is that like a situation where you are basically a solo practitioner but have access to a firm's resources? If this includes mentoring / training when you need it, yes, you should take it. Plenty of people have started out this way and it is invaluable.


Yes, precisely. I can get involved in whatever cases I want for the experience, there's office space, and I can pick and choose what I want to do. I already have an excellent relationship with every attorney at the firm. It also includes CLE's but I need to follow up on whether it includes Westlaw.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Stanford4Me » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:30 am

Are you paid a salary plus whatever business you bring in, or are you strictly working off of the work you bring in?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:37 am

Just got off the phone w/ a career counselor that just does alumni, and I almost hung up the phone when she told me I needed to network. I've been doing that since I struck out, don't need her wasting my time telling me how to do that job. Don't know why I expected anything different, but now just feel more pissed off. She didn't even give me a chance to really explain what I have done and my situation.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:37 am

Stanford4Me wrote:Are you paid a salary plus whatever business you bring in, or are you strictly working off of the work you bring in?


Strictly what I bring in. But I've been at this firm as a clerk for over a year and they stay very busy with a lot of clients. They hired two of the clerks that were with the firm before I came on last August, they just aren't offering another salary position for the time being. My earnings could actually be higher than the salaried attorneys they brought in, which are only paid salary.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
chrisbru wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My credit score has plummeted from solid 750 to 684 due to my pretty much almost maxing out every card I have. lol. Thank you law skool.


Mine tanked like that when I started law school too, but I'm up to about 15 points below where I started.


How did yours tank when you began law school? Shouldn't you have had your loan money to pay off your credit card then?


Not right at the beginning. But I bought a house, took out loans for the first time, and opened a new credit card second semester. And I put all my moving expenses on a credit card and didn't pay them off until summer after my first year.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:49 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
a male human wrote:Hmmm, I got an offer to work 20 hrs/wk @ $15/hr at a small company, but I deferred the starting date since I might have another interview coming up soon.


Seems like the perfect set up. You get money and still have time to interview at law jobs.

That's the plan. The PT job is directly related to my field actually, so I'd like to keep it even if I do get a firm job. That's not against ethical rules or anything, right?

And wat @ --LinkRemoved--

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:08 pm

a male human wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
a male human wrote:Hmmm, I got an offer to work 20 hrs/wk @ $15/hr at a small company, but I deferred the starting date since I might have another interview coming up soon.


Seems like the perfect set up. You get money and still have time to interview at law jobs.

That's the plan. The PT job is directly related to my field actually, so I'd like to keep it even if I do get a firm job. That's not against ethical rules or anything, right?

And wat @ --LinkRemoved--


Its not against ethical rules, it may be against rules of your firm where you end up (hopefully) working, but you can discuss that when you get a job with a firm.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:18 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
a male human wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
a male human wrote:Hmmm, I got an offer to work 20 hrs/wk @ $15/hr at a small company, but I deferred the starting date since I might have another interview coming up soon.


Seems like the perfect set up. You get money and still have time to interview at law jobs.

That's the plan. The PT job is directly related to my field actually, so I'd like to keep it even if I do get a firm job. That's not against ethical rules or anything, right?

And wat @ --LinkRemoved--


Its not against ethical rules, it may be against rules of your firm where you end up (hopefully) working, but you can discuss that when you get a job with a firm.


also requires being more wary of potential conflicts of interest.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Stanford4Me wrote:Are you paid a salary plus whatever business you bring in, or are you strictly working off of the work you bring in?


Strictly what I bring in. But I've been at this firm as a clerk for over a year and they stay very busy with a lot of clients. They hired two of the clerks that were with the firm before I came on last August, they just aren't offering another salary position for the time being. My earnings could actually be higher than the salaried attorneys they brought in, which are only paid salary.


I don't know anything specific about these jobs. But because you have worked with the firm and the lawyers and it is an area you want to practice, it sounds like a decent setup. I would be more nervous about accepting if it was a place you had no familiarity with. Could be a good start on your career.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:25 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Cyne wrote:Yo bros, I'm leaving the Vale.

What a fucking ride. Had an SA lined up that tanked like two months before summer. Lined up two unpaid internships. One of them became a jerb. Small firm paying market (da fuq didn't know that could happen).

Quick story in case it helps others. T50, 25%, no LR. Lol fucked right? I thought so. I somehow scrounged up that one SA position through sheer hustle. When I lost it I thought I saw the last chapter in the book called My Life. I worked my ass off in both firms I worked for over the summer. Luckily, I am pretty good with people, and proved early on I could generate business. That is what saved me. I would say I spend about 60 hours a week working over the summer, and another 20 trying to bring in business (without them asking). When I started, it was made clear to me there was no room for a new employee.

This thread is by far and large the best thread on TLS. All of your stories kept me motivated to push harder. Thank you so much. Special thanks to Rad, NYState, etc (long-timers in this thread). Ya'll friggin rock hard. You continue to post here to help others out, and I could not be more grateful. It certainly helped me.

To those still struggling, keep pushing. This is likely one of the worst times in your life (it was for me). I have gone through a lot of BS and tragedy in my life, but being in the Vale began to seriously screw with my health and mental well being. I had to regulate my mental health for the first time in my life. You can make it. This market blows donkey balls, but it only takes one offer. Best of luck, and I'll post any open positions I see crop up.

Dude this is a really good story

Thanks for sharin brother

Glad to hear about what seems like a rad opportunity; hope you're celebrating as we speak


Congrats! Oh man, I am so happy for you. So glad you didn't give up with all that against you.


Can you explain how you went about looking for business for the firm? That might help people.
Last edited by NYstate on Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NYstate
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:31 pm

a male human wrote:Hmmm, I got an offer to work 20 hrs/wk @ $15/hr at a small company, but I deferred the starting date since I might have another interview coming up soon.

This is great news. I think once you have money coming in and a schedule, you will be able to relax with other job interviews. This will help you.

There is no ethical rule prohibiting working for a firm and another job if you have time. Be careful about conflicts in representation and be careful about a firm not thinking they are your priority. But don't freak out about it either.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby NYstate » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just got off the phone w/ a career counselor that just does alumni, and I almost hung up the phone when she told me I needed to network. I've been doing that since I struck out, don't need her wasting my time telling me how to do that job. Don't know why I expected anything different, but now just feel more pissed off. She didn't even give me a chance to really explain what I have done and my situation.


What have you done? Vent here.

At this point you are most likely to get a job through some connection, I think, at least from reading this thread.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:13 pm

I'm almost maxed out on my credit cards, money drying up. I'm giving myself till the end of October to find a job, IN THE FIELD I SPENT YEARS AND MONEY ON GOING TO A TOP SCHOOL FOR NOTHING, and if not I'm checking out. I'm done with it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm almost maxed out on my credit cards, money drying up. I'm giving myself till the end of October to find a job, IN THE FIELD I SPENT YEARS AND MONEY ON GOING TO A TOP SCHOOL FOR NOTHING, and if not I'm checking out. I'm done with it.


did you just take the bar? if so, stop panicking. its only been less than 2 months since the bar, you're competing against thousands upon thousands of applicants, and the market sucks. your inability to land a job is no indictment upon you, so give it some more time. how and what are your search methods? pm me, maybe i can help. if you're already licensed, i understand the panic, but if not, sheesh calm down and be more patient.

on another note, just had a brutal interview today. midsized firm in San Diego. interview was going fine with one partner when another partner walked in and ripped me to shreds. got up, tucked tail, and was shown the door after. just another learning experience: you're interviewing the firm as much as they're interviewing you.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:26 pm

on another note, just had a brutal interview today. midsized firm in San Diego. interview was going fine with one partner when another partner walked in and ripped me to shreds. got up, tucked tail, and was shown the door after. just another learning experience: you're interviewing the firm as much as they're interviewing you.


What happened?

whatsyourdeal
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:33 pm

i'd rather not give too much details in case for some unusual chance i get outed, but 2nd partner chided me for not being honest and to just say that i'm desperate to work and get a paycheck. which, odd enough, would've been disingenuous: i'm currently employed (though its shitlaw), and i also have a callback tomorrow from another firm that seems pretty interested in me (which i did not reveal to avoid sounding arrogant). I tried to tell her that i just want to learn as a newly minted atty, but she would have none of it and told me i dont know shit.

pm for more details, i'm omitting specifics due to not wanting to being outed.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:46 pm

that sucks man. on the off chance it was a test to see how you would react under stressful situations, why would you do it in a way that shows the firm in a bad light?

whatsyourdeal
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:51 pm

^ what i thought. though the partner's intentions were good (i think), it was extremely crass and off-putting. i was totally turned off after the fact, and even in the off chance that they did call back, i wouldn't do it (but that's because 1: im currently employed, 2: i have a callback tomorrow and 3: the commute to this place alone was brutal)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby ragelion » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:15 pm

Are you sure she wasn't just giving you shit/messing around?

whatsyourdeal
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:51 pm

pretty sure about it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:02 pm

that sucks dude. i feel like some interviewers get off on making interviewees feel like shit. there's no need to not be courteous, even if you don't believe someone's answer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby luckyjd » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:03 pm

oops. did not mean to post anon.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:37 am

Posting anonymously because someone may be able to identify me from the skimp information, though I'd think not likely.
Turned down a job in OC in March for the simple fact I do not want to live in Southern California - when I say this, I mean no friends, no family. I know a lot of you will say you need to take everything you can get, but this was one of those situations where I wasn't willing to set my life trajectory onto something and some place I didn't want to do/be.
BUT! I have a phone interview in a week for a tax consulting position. Yeah, I know it's only a phone interview, but it's the biggest bite I've had in a LONG time, and haven't had any bites at all (I'm currently doing a post bar clerk position, which will absolutely not lead to full-time). Though it's just a phone interview, I am going to spend the next week prepping and praying to every deity that has every been acknowledged.




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