The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I usually put a full blown cover letter on the body of my email and then attach resume and transcript. I hope that the full blown cover letter makes it seem personalized but what do I know.

I can't imagine they would read it all right then and there. In fact, the cover letter is probably the most useless of the materials you send. I am almost certain recruiters rarely read it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lolwat » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:02 pm

I used to send a separate pdf cover letter and just have a very short "I'm writing to apply for stuff and attached my stuff for your review. Thanks" (not exactly like that, obviously) type of e-mail. In the last few months I've switched to having the body of my e-mail be the cover letter, and just attaching my resume and transcript.

I've seen zero difference in the way firms respond. In fact, I've probably gotten more responses from the latter method, but I don't think it's because of the way I did it. It could be.

I also send stuff to hiring partners almost nearly as much as I send them to recruiting coordinators, and the hiring partners would actually (in theory) at least skim over the e-mail if they were going to otherwise read a cover letter, anyway.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:06 pm

I also have my cover letter as the body and attach resume and other materials, but not another cover letter. I mostly send to partners and I do know they read (sometimes) as one commented on how my cover letter was well written and the next time I was in the target market, the partner would buy me lunch (they were not hiring at the time).

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:11 pm

Hm, I didn't think about merging all docs into one PDF. I always attach separate PDFs in case they want to do a check resume check or whatever.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:59 am

Buckley Madole, P.C. is seeking an enthusiastic and energetic associate to practice in its bankruptcy department. The firm is a progressive Dallas-based law firm that provides automobile lenders, consumer and finance companies, government sponsored entities, national mortgage servicing companies, and their investors, with performance-driven legal solutions for all aspects of their national bankruptcy case management process.
Duties and Responsibilities

The following reflects management's definition of essential functions for this job but does not restrict the tasks that may be assigned. Management may assign or reassign duties and responsibilities to this job at any time due to reasonable accommodation or other reasons.

Transactional work, including document review
Focus on quality control and compliance in the administration of bankruptcy cases

Requirements

J.D. from ABA-accredited law school
1-3 years of experience
TX Bar admission in good standing
Bankruptcy or foreclosure experience preferred

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Person above asking about writing after 11 days when hiring timeline was a week to 10 days.

1) The interviewer has always answered my e-mails promptly and seems very informal, so an ongoing e-mail conversation would not be too pesky or invasive.

2) This is an in-house position. I have a civil litigation resume. They really liked my resume however. Between two interviews we chatted for three hours. I was very sincere about the fact that I don't quite know what I want to do with my legal degree but loved the idea of going in-house but hadn't seen very many specific entry-level in-house positions so was looking for good experience with good people with the goal of going in-house in mind down the road. I talked specifically about loving working with contracts, negotiating, etc. etc. and was generally incredibly enthusiastic. But I did not say in the interview or in any of my follow up emails "This is my absolute top choice, I want this job" and I wish I had. I also said something at one point where the interview was almost two hours in and I think I got a little too chatty "I'm not going to pretend that my specific goal was to work in-house at xx type of company but xyz are exactly why I think this would be a great long-term fit." Now all that's sticking out in my mind is the "not my specific goal" comment and that it was dumb ass. I said a LOT right in what was a VERY good, back and forth high energy interview but that sticks out to me. I would like to write the interviewers and just say I wanted to stay in touch because I had been thinking about things they had said during the interview, talking to people in the field just by chance, etc. in the last couple weeks and because of elements xyz I believe that this job/work are the best fit for what I'm looking for in a job, that the people sound great, etc. etc., it's my top choice and I would love to offer xyz skills and knowledge that make me a great hire to the firm. I'm rambling here but always get great feedback on my writing and cover letters so could keep this to a pithy, non-desperate sounding, sincere paragraph.

3) I regret not writing back a quick follow up to the interviewer's "a week to 10 days" e-mail.

4) I figure I have not heard yet because a) they went with someone else or b) they got busy working on a deal and just haven't had the hiring conversation yet. I figure if a) obviously I have nothing to lose and if b) there's a chance a short, sincere e-mail reiterating my interest in concrete ways could help things in my favor or they are leaning my way and like me it's not gonna hurt things. And c) I am doing all the right things carrying on applying to jobs, etc. and even have another interview in the works but I am suffering some pretty acute anxiety waiting to hear back and given that sending this e-mail seems low risk ANY info on the hiring process would make my life significantly more bearable.

BUT I know there is a risk of pestering someone so want to get some feedback about how high the risk of that is. THANK YOU so much everyone here. The success stories are nice to see and the commiserating is great too.


Bumping for advice. Thanks

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Person above asking about writing after 11 days when hiring timeline was a week to 10 days.

1) The interviewer has always answered my e-mails promptly and seems very informal, so an ongoing e-mail conversation would not be too pesky or invasive.

2) This is an in-house position. I have a civil litigation resume. They really liked my resume however. Between two interviews we chatted for three hours. I was very sincere about the fact that I don't quite know what I want to do with my legal degree but loved the idea of going in-house but hadn't seen very many specific entry-level in-house positions so was looking for good experience with good people with the goal of going in-house in mind down the road. I talked specifically about loving working with contracts, negotiating, etc. etc. and was generally incredibly enthusiastic. But I did not say in the interview or in any of my follow up emails "This is my absolute top choice, I want this job" and I wish I had. I also said something at one point where the interview was almost two hours in and I think I got a little too chatty "I'm not going to pretend that my specific goal was to work in-house at xx type of company but xyz are exactly why I think this would be a great long-term fit." Now all that's sticking out in my mind is the "not my specific goal" comment and that it was dumb ass. I said a LOT right in what was a VERY good, back and forth high energy interview but that sticks out to me. I would like to write the interviewers and just say I wanted to stay in touch because I had been thinking about things they had said during the interview, talking to people in the field just by chance, etc. in the last couple weeks and because of elements xyz I believe that this job/work are the best fit for what I'm looking for in a job, that the people sound great, etc. etc., it's my top choice and I would love to offer xyz skills and knowledge that make me a great hire to the firm. I'm rambling here but always get great feedback on my writing and cover letters so could keep this to a pithy, non-desperate sounding, sincere paragraph.

3) I regret not writing back a quick follow up to the interviewer's "a week to 10 days" e-mail.

4) I figure I have not heard yet because a) they went with someone else or b) they got busy working on a deal and just haven't had the hiring conversation yet. I figure if a) obviously I have nothing to lose and if b) there's a chance a short, sincere e-mail reiterating my interest in concrete ways could help things in my favor or they are leaning my way and like me it's not gonna hurt things. And c) I am doing all the right things carrying on applying to jobs, etc. and even have another interview in the works but I am suffering some pretty acute anxiety waiting to hear back and given that sending this e-mail seems low risk ANY info on the hiring process would make my life significantly more bearable.

BUT I know there is a risk of pestering someone so want to get some feedback about how high the risk of that is. THANK YOU so much everyone here. The success stories are nice to see and the commiserating is great too.


Bumping for advice. Thanks


If you really want to follow up, think the recommended wait time is at least two-three weeks. The truth of the matter is that following up never really does much but speed up finding out you were rejected.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lolwat » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:27 pm

Since they said 7-10 days, I'd wait at least 2 weeks. 11 days just sounded desperate.

In my experience, it's always been one of two things: (1) a rejection letter coming in the mail or (2) an update that they're still in their recruiting process somewhere. It doesn't do much to speed things along.

However, if you really felt that you failed to sufficiently convey your interest in the job during the interview, a follow-up after a reasonable time frame that includes something like that, at the very least, probably couldn't hurt.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby whatsyourdeal » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:39 pm

got a callback from a small boutique firm! thought i had a good interview, but in this market, there's so many candidates for every opening. gonna keep my fingers and toes crossed until i see my desk/cubicle/office

anyway, for second interviews, even at boutique firms (nope, not IP, and definitely not shit law), i imagine a salary negotiation takes place. anybody got experience on this? I looked at Robert Half Legal's Salary Guide and have numbers in mind, but do I even have room to negotiate? I don't want to scare off this employer because there are loads of applicants out the door behind me ready to take this job.

thoughts, valers?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:25 pm

I had two 3L OCI screeners 6 weeks ago and haven't heard anything from either. I emailed a follow up to the recruiting contracts a week ago and haven't heard anything...I think it's possible they may have moved on but people I know haven't heard back either and my interviews went well. Guess I can't do anything but wait it out?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby walrus898 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:38 pm

first post in the Vale (hell, in all of TLS), thought you guys might enjoy this. found while i was looking for jerbs

--LinkRemoved--

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:59 pm

Got my first callback. Huzzah.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I had two 3L OCI screeners 6 weeks ago and haven't heard anything from either. I emailed a follow up to the recruiting contracts a week ago and haven't heard anything...I think it's possible they may have moved on but people I know haven't heard back either and my interviews went well. Guess I can't do anything but wait it out?


Talk to classmates who also had same screeners? Talk to career services?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:05 pm

chrisbru wrote:Got my first callback. Huzzah.



Yay!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:30 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I had two 3L OCI screeners 6 weeks ago and haven't heard anything from either. I emailed a follow up to the recruiting contracts a week ago and haven't heard anything...I think it's possible they may have moved on but people I know haven't heard back either and my interviews went well. Guess I can't do anything but wait it out?


Talk to classmates who also had same screeners? Talk to career services?

None of the classmates I've talked to so far has heard back. I'll drop in on career services tomorrow.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:43 pm

spleenworship wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Got my first callback. Huzzah.



Yay!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:14 pm

chrisbru wrote:Got my first callback. Huzzah.

Kill it bro.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:46 pm

I finally have a legitimate interview, but it is about 5.5 hours driving distance from where I am and travel costs are not reimbursed. If I flew, travel cost would be about $400. If I drove, maybe $100 tops. I am poor. Should I just drive it? I really want this and don't want to screw it up.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:57 pm

Jessuf wrote:I finally have a legitimate interview, but it is about 5.5 hours driving distance from where I am and travel costs are not reimbursed. If I flew, travel cost would be about $400. If I drove, maybe $100 tops. I am poor. Should I just drive it? I really want this and don't want to screw it up.



Drive that shit. Either get an afternoon interview or pay for a cheap hotel room.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lwoods » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:02 pm

Jessuf wrote:I finally have a legitimate interview, but it is about 5.5 hours driving distance from where I am and travel costs are not reimbursed. If I flew, travel cost would be about $400. If I drove, maybe $100 tops. I am poor. Should I just drive it? I really want this and don't want to screw it up.


Congrats!
And yep, drive it. Do you have a friend you can drag with you to keep you company? S/O came with me on a callback last year that was 6 hours away, which made it fun.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby jessuf » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:07 pm

lol, no way would anyone want to go with me, and I would probably get annoyed by their presence. I think I will plan drive time so that I get there 3 or so hours early. That will save me if something happens to my car like a flat or getting pulled over. I scheduled the interview for mid-afternoon, so I will stop at Panera or something for lunch beforehand and freshen up.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Cyne » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:07 am

Yo bros, I'm leaving the Vale.

What a fucking ride. Had an SA lined up that tanked like two months before summer. Lined up two unpaid internships. One of them became a jerb. Small firm paying market (da fuq didn't know that could happen).

Quick story in case it helps others. T50, 25%, no LR. Lol fucked right? I thought so. I somehow scrounged up that one SA position through sheer hustle. When I lost it I thought I saw the last chapter in the book called My Life. I worked my ass off in both firms I worked for over the summer. Luckily, I am pretty good with people, and proved early on I could generate business. That is what saved me. I would say I spend about 60 hours a week working over the summer, and another 20 trying to bring in business (without them asking). When I started, it was made clear to me there was no room for a new employee.

This thread is by far and large the best thread on TLS. All of your stories kept me motivated to push harder. Thank you so much. Special thanks to Rad, NYState, etc (long-timers in this thread). Ya'll friggin rock hard. You continue to post here to help others out, and I could not be more grateful. It certainly helped me.

To those still struggling, keep pushing. This is likely one of the worst times in your life (it was for me). I have gone through a lot of BS and tragedy in my life, but being in the Vale began to seriously screw with my health and mental well being. I had to regulate my mental health for the first time in my life. You can make it. This market blows donkey balls, but it only takes one offer. Best of luck, and I'll post any open positions I see crop up.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby 02122015 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:33 am

Cyne wrote:Yo bros, I'm leaving the Vale.

What a fucking ride. Had an SA lined up that tanked like two months before summer. Lined up two unpaid internships. One of them became a jerb. Small firm paying market (da fuq didn't know that could happen).

Quick story in case it helps others. T50, 25%, no LR. Lol fucked right? I thought so. I somehow scrounged up that one SA position through sheer hustle. When I lost it I thought I saw the last chapter in the book called My Life. I worked my ass off in both firms I worked for over the summer. Luckily, I am pretty good with people, and proved early on I could generate business. That is what saved me. I would say I spend about 60 hours a week working over the summer, and another 20 trying to bring in business (without them asking). When I started, it was made clear to me there was no room for a new employee.

This thread is by far and large the best thread on TLS. All of your stories kept me motivated to push harder. Thank you so much. Special thanks to Rad, NYState, etc (long-timers in this thread). Ya'll friggin rock hard. You continue to post here to help others out, and I could not be more grateful. It certainly helped me.

To those still struggling, keep pushing. This is likely one of the worst times in your life (it was for me). I have gone through a lot of BS and tragedy in my life, but being in the Vale began to seriously screw with my health and mental well being. I had to regulate my mental health for the first time in my life. You can make it. This market blows donkey balls, but it only takes one offer. Best of luck, and I'll post any open positions I see crop up.

Does 25% mean top 25% or bottom 25%?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:39 am

Cyne wrote:Luckily, I am pretty good with people, and proved early on I could generate business. That is what saved me. I would say I spend about 60 hours a week working over the summer, and another 20 trying to bring in business (without them asking).


First things first: Major congrats on the jerb!

Also, I hope this is not a dumb question, but how did you manage to bring in business as a law student?

Void
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:07 am

whatsyourdeal wrote:got a callback from a small boutique firm! thought i had a good interview, but in this market, there's so many candidates for every opening. gonna keep my fingers and toes crossed until i see my desk/cubicle/office

anyway, for second interviews, even at boutique firms (nope, not IP, and definitely not shit law), i imagine a salary negotiation takes place. anybody got experience on this? I looked at Robert Half Legal's Salary Guide and have numbers in mind, but do I even have room to negotiate? I don't want to scare off this employer because there are loads of applicants out the door behind me ready to take this job.

thoughts, valers?


Every "salary negotiation" I've heard of for entry level legal work goes something like this:

Employer: "the salary is $X."
Applicant: "wow, great!"




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