The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:From 1 to 10, how pathetic is it that a few days ago I got excited when I received an automatic acknowledgment of my application to my favorite V-10?


Who the fuck has favorite v-whatever firms?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:From 1 to 10, how pathetic is it that a few days ago I got excited when I received an automatic acknowledgment of my application to my favorite V-10?


10 being the highest level of pathetic-ness, I give it a 7. I've been at higher levels myself, though, so who cares?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:From 1 to 10, how pathetic is it that a few days ago I got excited when I received an automatic acknowledgment of my application to my favorite V-10?


Who the fuck has favorite v-whatever firms?



my favorite firm is the firm whose application I am currently working on. As soon as I move onto the next firm, that firm no longer has favorite firm status. Can be a solo, v-whatever, or whatnot.

that is, unless they want to interview me, in which case they will be my favorite firm until 20 minutes after the interview ( or the end of the interview process).

now if said firm were pull an Uncle Sam and say " we Want you" then that firm will retain its favorite firm status.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:From 1 to 10, how pathetic is it that a few days ago I got excited when I received an automatic acknowledgment of my application to my favorite V-10?


Who the fuck has favorite v-whatever firms?


I do not know, maybe they do some type of work that others do not... or maybe they have an office I would want to end up in the future, while others do not. I am in the Vale, obviously I am not saying either this V-10 or bust, I would be happy if I am employed anywhere when I graduate, but on the other hand, yes I can also have a favorite firm.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:From 1 to 10, how pathetic is it that a few days ago I got excited when I received an automatic acknowledgment of my application to my favorite V-10?


Who the fuck has favorite v-whatever firms?



my favorite firm is the firm whose application I am currently working on. As soon as I move onto the next firm, that firm no longer has favorite firm status. Can be a solo, v-whatever, or whatnot.

that is, unless they want to interview me, in which case they will be my favorite firm until 20 minutes after the interview ( or the end of the interview process).

now if said firm were pull an Uncle Sam and say " we Want you" then that firm will retain its favorite firm status.


Honestly this is not too bad of a way to look at it. I feel that even tho I am just a 3L, some of the applications I send stink of subtle cynicism and bitterness. The whole "they can sense your desperation" could be just as true as "they can sense your anger and sense of disgust"

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:10 pm

Motherfuck. My roommate just got a callback to a firm that I really really liked, that was about an hour from where the SO is moving for school next year. He has about the same GPA as me and absolutely zero connection to the town at all, and not even a reason to want to be in that state. The town is 5 hours from where we go to school, and 5 hours from his hometown and where he went to college.

This is extremely fucking disheartening. Makes me think I'm interviewing poorly or something else is wrong that I just can't see.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:12 pm

spleenworship wrote:
lukertin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:ok i called back!

you're supposed to tell us how it went


This.



secretary didn't know who called me, said she would check it out. not getting my hopes up...

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Gorki » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:15 pm

chrisbru wrote:Motherfuck. My roommate just got a callback to a firm that I really really liked, that was about an hour from where the SO is moving for school next year. He has about the same GPA as me and absolutely zero connection to the town at all, and not even a reason to want to be in that state. The town is 5 hours from where we go to school, and 5 hours from his hometown and where he went to college.

This is extremely fucking disheartening. Makes me think I'm interviewing poorly or something else is wrong that I just can't see.


So not to be a dick here, cause this really sucks. Did you apply to this firm? If so, did you apply in any diff way than your bud? Did he have any diff work exp. or something? Did you do any screener with this firm? If so, maybe you had a diff interviewer than him (sadly, this makes all the diff)?

Furthermore, a CB does not necessarily mean a jerb. I go to a shit school, and my understanding is that firms that go to our OCI basically pick a handful of screeners for a CB, but almost none of them make the final cut.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:18 pm

chrisbru wrote:Motherfuck. My roommate just got a callback to a firm that I really really liked, that was about an hour from where the SO is moving for school next year. He has about the same GPA as me and absolutely zero connection to the town at all, and not even a reason to want to be in that state. The town is 5 hours from where we go to school, and 5 hours from his hometown and where he went to college.

This is extremely fucking disheartening. Makes me think I'm interviewing poorly or something else is wrong that I just can't see.


It's okay man. Sometimes it happens. Hiring, like life, is sometimes a random crapshoot. You can check with a career counselor or trusted friend to make sure there's not some huge flaw in your interview technique or resume, but sometimes it really is just raw dumb luck.

I got a callback interview once for a firm out in the middle of fucking nowhere that I had no connection to through a family connection. I'm sure a few people from that town would've called me a mother fucker. Maybe your friend has something like that that he's not telling you about because he doesn't have the heart to.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:19 pm

Gorki wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Motherfuck. My roommate just got a callback to a firm that I really really liked, that was about an hour from where the SO is moving for school next year. He has about the same GPA as me and absolutely zero connection to the town at all, and not even a reason to want to be in that state. The town is 5 hours from where we go to school, and 5 hours from his hometown and where he went to college.

This is extremely fucking disheartening. Makes me think I'm interviewing poorly or something else is wrong that I just can't see.


So not to be a dick here, cause this really sucks. Did you apply to this firm? If so, did you apply in any diff way than your bud? Did he have any diff work exp. or something? Did you do any screener with this firm? If so, maybe you had a diff interviewer than him (sadly, this makes all the diff)?

Furthermore, a CB does not necessarily mean a jerb. I go to a shit school, and my understanding is that firms that go to our OCI basically pick a handful of screeners for a CB, but almost none of them make the final cut.



It was an OCI firm, we both applied directly through the school's OCI process and were both preselected for interviews. Same interviewer, same day, same everything for the screener. Almost identical experience except I worked for a firm 1L summer and he clerked for a district court judge and he was on law review while I'm on a secondary (but editorial board and he is not).


Anonymous User wrote:It's okay man. Sometimes it happens. Hiring, like life, is sometimes a random crapshoot. You can check with a career counselor or trusted friend to make sure there's not some huge flaw in your interview technique or resume, but sometimes it really is just raw dumb luck.

I got a callback interview once for a firm out in the middle of fucking nowhere that I had no connection to through a family connection. I'm sure a few people from that town would've called me a mother fucker. Maybe your friend has something like that that he's not telling you about because he doesn't have the heart to.


Thanks man. I'm mostly freaking out because the SO is dead set on this town after graduation, and if I can't find something within a few hour drive then it's pretty much guaranteed that I'll lose the support system I've had since a few weeks into 1L. And it isn't like a couple years, it's a minimum of 5 years and even after that we have to be someplace where she can teach (which, unfortunately, means the city I worked the last two summers and grew up in and have great connections in will not work.)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:35 pm

chrisbru wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:It's okay man. Sometimes it happens. Hiring, like life, is sometimes a random crapshoot. You can check with a career counselor or trusted friend to make sure there's not some huge flaw in your interview technique or resume, but sometimes it really is just raw dumb luck.

I got a callback interview once for a firm out in the middle of fucking nowhere that I had no connection to through a family connection. I'm sure a few people from that town would've called me a mother fucker. Maybe your friend has something like that that he's not telling you about because he doesn't have the heart to.


Thanks man. I'm mostly freaking out because the SO is dead set on this town after graduation, and if I can't find something within a few hour drive then it's pretty much guaranteed that I'll lose the support system I've had since a few weeks into 1L. And it isn't like a couple years, it's a minimum of 5 years and even after that we have to be someplace where she can teach (which, unfortunately, means the city I worked the last two summers and grew up in and have great connections in will not work.)


Same anon. I know it sucks, but you gotta be open-minded in these times. Sometimes that involves living father apart for extended periods of time.

Why don't you apply for as many jobs as possible, including ones in the area that you're well-connected to? You're at least applying. Then, if you do get an offer from this place you have great connections to, maybe you can ask your SO about some sort of arrangement--maybe she'll be more open to moving with you to your hometown after she sees that you have an actual offer, who knows?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:39 pm

Nt trying to get too personal but shouldn't both of you make sacrifices? It seems like you're going to be sacrificing the next 10-15yrs of your career to better her career. Is there no place that would work for both of you?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:50 pm

hoping for some advice:

had an interview on friday for a small firm. rapport and connection seemed good, the interview seemed good. towards the end of the interview, one of the partners asked: why you over another candidate we are considering? i answered, they seemed to like 2 of my 3 answers (they said so), and one of them proceeded to get up, walk out of the room and return with an employment application.

soooo.... million dollar question: when will i know whether i need to start looking again or need to start getting ready for another interview? a week tops?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:hoping for some advice:

had an interview on friday for a small firm. rapport and connection seemed good, the interview seemed good. towards the end of the interview, one of the partners asked: why you over another candidate we are considering? i answered, they seemed to like 2 of my 3 answers (they said so), and one of them proceeded to get up, walk out of the room and return with an employment application.

soooo.... million dollar question: when will i know whether i need to start looking again or need to start getting ready for another interview? a week tops?

I think you should always be looking, regardless of how well you think your interview went. Always temper your hopes and expectations.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:11 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:Nt trying to get too personal but shouldn't both of you make sacrifices? It seems like you're going to be sacrificing the next 10-15yrs of your career to better her career. Is there no place that would work for both of you?


This place is a place that would work for both of us, theoretically. And it is merely her hard and fast top choice, not an absolute end-all-be-all. But my connected-city doesn't have a school with her doctoral program. So asking her to move there would literally be asking her to give up what she wants to do - while me moving someplace there is a school simply means a (significantly) more difficult job search. She's already ruled out east and west coast schools she wanted to go to so we can stay in the Midwest - I feel like it's only fair that I focus my job search on places that she can go to school in.

To be fair - I'd be significantly happier bartending and being with her until I find a job than being a lawyer in my hometown right away.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Broseidon » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:hoping for some advice:

had an interview on friday for a small firm. rapport and connection seemed good, the interview seemed good. towards the end of the interview, one of the partners asked: why you over another candidate we are considering? i answered, they seemed to like 2 of my 3 answers (they said so), and one of them proceeded to get up, walk out of the room and return with an employment application.

soooo.... million dollar question: when will i know whether i need to start looking again or need to start getting ready for another interview? a week tops?

Keep looking. I had an interview last year that I thought went well and filled out an application after it. It turned out to just be a formality because I never heard from them again. Don't stop until you get the offer.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:24 pm

Question. Timeline: second interview almost three weeks ago. Sent a short email a couple days later with thank you and follow up question. Interviewer wrote back right away. Asked in one line about hiring timeline very politely a couple days after that. Interviewer wrote back quickly and said a week to 10 days but said no more.. That was 11 days ago. Any problem with writing to reiterate my interest in a short, friendly email? Calling better? Going it will garner info if not actually help. Don't want or to hurt. No HR.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:00 pm

Person above asking about writing after 11 days when hiring timeline was a week to 10 days.

1) The interviewer has always answered my e-mails promptly and seems very informal, so an ongoing e-mail conversation would not be too pesky or invasive.

2) This is an in-house position. I have a civil litigation resume. They really liked my resume however. Between two interviews we chatted for three hours. I was very sincere about the fact that I don't quite know what I want to do with my legal degree but loved the idea of going in-house but hadn't seen very many specific entry-level in-house positions so was looking for good experience with good people with the goal of going in-house in mind down the road. I talked specifically about loving working with contracts, negotiating, etc. etc. and was generally incredibly enthusiastic. But I did not say in the interview or in any of my follow up emails "This is my absolute top choice, I want this job" and I wish I had. I also said something at one point where the interview was almost two hours in and I think I got a little too chatty "I'm not going to pretend that my specific goal was to work in-house at xx type of company but xyz are exactly why I think this would be a great long-term fit." Now all that's sticking out in my mind is the "not my specific goal" comment and that it was dumb ass. I said a LOT right in what was a VERY good, back and forth high energy interview but that sticks out to me. I would like to write the interviewers and just say I wanted to stay in touch because I had been thinking about things they had said during the interview, talking to people in the field just by chance, etc. in the last couple weeks and because of elements xyz I believe that this job/work are the best fit for what I'm looking for in a job, that the people sound great, etc. etc., it's my top choice and I would love to offer xyz skills and knowledge that make me a great hire to the firm. I'm rambling here but always get great feedback on my writing and cover letters so could keep this to a pithy, non-desperate sounding, sincere paragraph.

3) I regret not writing back a quick follow up to the interviewer's "a week to 10 days" e-mail.

4) I figure I have not heard yet because a) they went with someone else or b) they got busy working on a deal and just haven't had the hiring conversation yet. I figure if a) obviously I have nothing to lose and if b) there's a chance a short, sincere e-mail reiterating my interest in concrete ways could help things in my favor or they are leaning my way and like me it's not gonna hurt things. And c) I am doing all the right things carrying on applying to jobs, etc. and even have another interview in the works but I am suffering some pretty acute anxiety waiting to hear back and given that sending this e-mail seems low risk ANY info on the hiring process would make my life significantly more bearable.

BUT I know there is a risk of pestering someone so want to get some feedback about how high the risk of that is. THANK YOU so much everyone here. The success stories are nice to see and the commiserating is great too.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Two questions:

1) Mass Snail Mail or Mass E-Mail?

2) If you use email, what are you guys writing in the body of the email? Obviously I will attach my cover letter, resume, and transcript merged into one PDF file, but I am at a loss for what to put in the body of the email that will compel them to open the file without repeating whats in the cover letter.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:28 pm

chrisbru wrote:Two questions:

1) Mass Snail Mail or Mass E-Mail?

2) If you use email, what are you guys writing in the body of the email? Obviously I will attach my cover letter, resume, and transcript merged into one PDF file, but I am at a loss for what to put in the body of the email that will compel them to open the file without repeating whats in the cover letter.

Mass email so it can be forwarded to various hiring people, and I would write a 2-3 sentence mini cover letter for the body of your email. It's okay to repeat the cover letter in substance.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:13 pm

mr. wednesday wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Two questions:

1) Mass Snail Mail or Mass E-Mail?

2) If you use email, what are you guys writing in the body of the email? Obviously I will attach my cover letter, resume, and transcript merged into one PDF file, but I am at a loss for what to put in the body of the email that will compel them to open the file without repeating whats in the cover letter.

Mass email so it can be forwarded to various hiring people, and I would write a 2-3 sentence mini cover letter for the body of your email. It's okay to repeat the cover letter in substance.


Care to share an example of an email? Or, I guess, what does the Vale think of this?

Dear [Mr./Ms. FirstName LastName]:

My name is [my name] and I am a third year law student at [school]. I expect to receive my J.D. in May 2014 and I am interested in joining your firm after taking the July 2014 Bar Examination in [state]. I am particular interested in moving to the [firm's geographical area] because I have significant ties to the area, and I would like to begin my practice there. Enclosed you will find a copy of my résumé, which further details the skills I can bring to your firm, and my unofficial transcript. I would welcome the opportunity to speak with you about my qualifications; I am available by phone at [phone] or email at [email]. I appreciate your time and consideration, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

[my name]

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:13 pm

mr. wednesday wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Two questions:

1) Mass Snail Mail or Mass E-Mail?

2) If you use email, what are you guys writing in the body of the email? Obviously I will attach my cover letter, resume, and transcript merged into one PDF file, but I am at a loss for what to put in the body of the email that will compel them to open the file without repeating whats in the cover letter.

Mass email so it can be forwarded to various hiring people, and I would write a 2-3 sentence mini cover letter for the body of your email. It's okay to repeat the cover letter in substance.


My cover letter is the body of my email.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:27 pm

sparty99 wrote:
mr. wednesday wrote:
chrisbru wrote:Two questions:

1) Mass Snail Mail or Mass E-Mail?

2) If you use email, what are you guys writing in the body of the email? Obviously I will attach my cover letter, resume, and transcript merged into one PDF file, but I am at a loss for what to put in the body of the email that will compel them to open the file without repeating whats in the cover letter.

Mass email so it can be forwarded to various hiring people, and I would write a 2-3 sentence mini cover letter for the body of your email. It's okay to repeat the cover letter in substance.


My cover letter is the body of my email.


That seems extreme. I would TL;DR any email that was longer than a paragraph if I was hiring someone. Especially if I'm just the person who collects applications and puts them on the desks of someone who makes decisions.

I mean, I should definitely have my cover letter, resume, and transcript in one PDF so they can just hit print once if they want it printed off. So why repeat the cover letter in the email?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:30 pm

That seems fine to me. You don't want it to be too long or it just won't be read, but you also want a good "elevator speech." I might see if you could condensed your first and second sentences, since being a 3L and graduating next May is the same information twice.
Last edited by mr. wednesday on Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:47 pm

I usually put a full blown cover letter on the body of my email and then attach resume and transcript. I hope that the full blown cover letter makes it seem personalized but what do I know.




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