The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:32 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Whatever. This thread is filled with people who love misery and make it depressing to read. My comment was truthful. No employer is going to hire someone with a bad attitude. If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting. There is a book called, "Knock Em' Dead," by Martin Yate. If you have interviews, read it. Think how you can diferentiate yourself in an interview. The legal industry is one of many industries. You can't get a job in it? Apply elsewhere. Still want a legal job? Apply once you get any job that pays you for your skills and experience. Self-loathing is not going to get you a job. Why were you rejected? If you continue to get interviews, evaluate what you might be doing wrong. Seek feedback. How are you applying? Is it just email or through a firm's website? Find another way to make your initial introduction. Read, "Never Send a Resume." Go to Six Flags. Go see a movie. It is just a job. A legal job doesn't define you. A school fellowship is better than being unemployed. Follow-up tomorrow with ten employers you applied to. Then apply to 10 non legal employers and 10 legal employers. Apply to five non legal positions a day, Monday through Friday.

This isn't exactly bad advice, but you deliver in such a dickish manner

Was trying to figure out how to say exactly this.

(The thing that sucks is that it's true that desperation/bitterness often come across in an interview and make it even harder to get a job, when getting a job would erase the desperation/bitterness. It's just that if that's how you're feeling, it's hard to just turn that off for an interview, though it's certainly worth trying really hard to do so.)


"I eat because I'm unhappy, and I'm unhappy because I eat. It's a vicious cycle." - Fat Bastard

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Yobot
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Yobot » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:38 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Whatever. This thread is filled with people who love misery and make it depressing to read. My comment was truthful. No employer is going to hire someone with a bad attitude. If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting. There is a book called, "Knock Em' Dead," by Martin Yate. If you have interviews, read it. Think how you can diferentiate yourself in an interview. The legal industry is one of many industries. You can't get a job in it? Apply elsewhere. Still want a legal job? Apply once you get any job that pays you for your skills and experience. Self-loathing is not going to get you a job. Why were you rejected? If you continue to get interviews, evaluate what you might be doing wrong. Seek feedback. How are you applying? Is it just email or through a firm's website? Find another way to make your initial introduction. Read, "Never Send a Resume." Go to Six Flags. Go see a movie. It is just a job. A legal job doesn't define you. A school fellowship is better than being unemployed. Follow-up tomorrow with ten employers you applied to. Then apply to 10 non legal employers and 10 legal employers. Apply to five non legal positions a day, Monday through Friday.


Well said.

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:25 pm

Yobot wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Whatever. This thread is filled with people who love misery and make it depressing to read. My comment was truthful. No employer is going to hire someone with a bad attitude. If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting. There is a book called, "Knock Em' Dead," by Martin Yate. If you have interviews, read it. Think how you can diferentiate yourself in an interview. The legal industry is one of many industries. You can't get a job in it? Apply elsewhere. Still want a legal job? Apply once you get any job that pays you for your skills and experience. Self-loathing is not going to get you a job. Why were you rejected? If you continue to get interviews, evaluate what you might be doing wrong. Seek feedback. How are you applying? Is it just email or through a firm's website? Find another way to make your initial introduction. Read, "Never Send a Resume." Go to Six Flags. Go see a movie. It is just a job. A legal job doesn't define you. A school fellowship is better than being unemployed. Follow-up tomorrow with ten employers you applied to. Then apply to 10 non legal employers and 10 legal employers. Apply to five non legal positions a day, Monday through Friday.


Well said.


Sounds like a Sparty alt.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:27 pm

iceman219 wrote:
a male human wrote:Anyone else have a hard time considering positions that pay less than the job before law school?


TBH, I had a bit of an issue with this. I had to think about it for awhile, and really dig back into my past... while the salary offer was not commensurate with the experience + loans I had under my belt, I remember how absolutely miserable I was in my old job. And the salary offer then became a little more palatable to swallow.

I know all of us didn't go to law school to become entrepreneurs/solo practitioners; however, there is a lot of upside in the legal arena from all of the base salary offers we are all seeing. The firms/corporations all know this, and they are all relatively low-balling us. But they have the negotiation leverage at the moment. 2-3 years experience will change this equation, and you will start seeing a better salary situation at that point. Whenever you decide to look after getting some experience under your belt, find a headhunter; I had some experience with these in my pre-law school days, and they are absolutely worth their weight in gold


where does one find a headhunter? When and how do you initiate contact?

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
iceman219 wrote:
a male human wrote:Anyone else have a hard time considering positions that pay less than the job before law school?


TBH, I had a bit of an issue with this. I had to think about it for awhile, and really dig back into my past... while the salary offer was not commensurate with the experience + loans I had under my belt, I remember how absolutely miserable I was in my old job. And the salary offer then became a little more palatable to swallow.

I know all of us didn't go to law school to become entrepreneurs/solo practitioners; however, there is a lot of upside in the legal arena from all of the base salary offers we are all seeing. The firms/corporations all know this, and they are all relatively low-balling us. But they have the negotiation leverage at the moment. 2-3 years experience will change this equation, and you will start seeing a better salary situation at that point. Whenever you decide to look after getting some experience under your belt, find a headhunter; I had some experience with these in my pre-law school days, and they are absolutely worth their weight in gold


where does one find a headhunter? When and how do you initiate contact?

For example, check http://www.hirecounsel.com. It has several offices. Just upload your resume and answer some questions, and they will contact you to set up an interview with them to discuss your career goals. Alternatively, prowl LinkedIn groups for recruiters posting jobs. Initiate contact with them.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
iceman219 wrote:
a male human wrote:Anyone else have a hard time considering positions that pay less than the job before law school?


TBH, I had a bit of an issue with this. I had to think about it for awhile, and really dig back into my past... while the salary offer was not commensurate with the experience + loans I had under my belt, I remember how absolutely miserable I was in my old job. And the salary offer then became a little more palatable to swallow.

I know all of us didn't go to law school to become entrepreneurs/solo practitioners; however, there is a lot of upside in the legal arena from all of the base salary offers we are all seeing. The firms/corporations all know this, and they are all relatively low-balling us. But they have the negotiation leverage at the moment. 2-3 years experience will change this equation, and you will start seeing a better salary situation at that point. Whenever you decide to look after getting some experience under your belt, find a headhunter; I had some experience with these in my pre-law school days, and they are absolutely worth their weight in gold


where does one find a headhunter? When and how do you initiate contact?


Post your resume on monster.com and careerbuilder and headhunters will contact you. Or google headhunters and the city that you want. Or legal headhunters, etc.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:08 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
iceman219 wrote:
a male human wrote:Anyone else have a hard time considering positions that pay less than the job before law school?


TBH, I had a bit of an issue with this. I had to think about it for awhile, and really dig back into my past... while the salary offer was not commensurate with the experience + loans I had under my belt, I remember how absolutely miserable I was in my old job. And the salary offer then became a little more palatable to swallow.

I know all of us didn't go to law school to become entrepreneurs/solo practitioners; however, there is a lot of upside in the legal arena from all of the base salary offers we are all seeing. The firms/corporations all know this, and they are all relatively low-balling us. But they have the negotiation leverage at the moment. 2-3 years experience will change this equation, and you will start seeing a better salary situation at that point. Whenever you decide to look after getting some experience under your belt, find a headhunter; I had some experience with these in my pre-law school days, and they are absolutely worth their weight in gold


where does one find a headhunter? When and how do you initiate contact?


Post your resume on monster.com and careerbuilder and headhunters will contact you.

Is this true? Headhunters can browse resumes there? Do legal headhunters do this? I've never used Monster.

lukertin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lukertin » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:17 pm

lol no good headhunter is going to contact you off monster.com. only pure shit

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:42 pm

lukertin wrote:lol no good headhunter is going to contact you off monster.com. only pure shit


You don't know sh*t. Headhunters use monster.com all the time to find candidates. Also, they will contact you if you have LinkedIn. But monster.com, you just post and do nothing. Very easy non-proactive way.

lukertin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lukertin » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:54 pm

sparty99 wrote:
lukertin wrote:lol no good headhunter is going to contact you off monster.com. only pure shit


You don't know sh*t. Headhunters use monster.com all the time to find candidates. Also, they will contact you if you have LinkedIn. But monster.com, you just post and do nothing. Very easy non-proactive way.


Tell me, you think companies go out of their way to pay headhunters to find candidates on monster.com when they already pay monster.com to find candidates? Why would they pay 25% of your salary to land you when they can spend $300 and get you for no further cost.

shitty headhunters comb through places like monster.com and try to slime their way to a finder's fee
Last edited by lukertin on Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mr. wednesday
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:55 pm

a male human wrote:Is this true? Headhunters can browse resumes there? Do legal headhunters do this? I've never used Monster.

Headhunters for top commission-only sales positions, particularly the ones that are clearly pyramid schemes, use monster.com all of the time.

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:13 pm

lukertin wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
lukertin wrote:lol no good headhunter is going to contact you off monster.com. only pure shit


You don't know sh*t. Headhunters use monster.com all the time to find candidates. Also, they will contact you if you have LinkedIn. But monster.com, you just post and do nothing. Very easy non-proactive way.


Tell me, you think companies go out of their way to pay headhunters to find candidates on monster.com when they already pay monster.com to find candidates? Why would they pay 25% of your salary to land you when they can spend $300 and get you for no further cost.

shitty headhunters comb through places like monster.com and try to slime their way to a finder's fee


I worked in business and have been contacted by staffing firms for shit positions (like temporary contract gigs). Additionally, I have been contacted by headhunters for high-level jobs. Director of Marketing, VP positions (even though that wasn't my experience level, but my resume sounded like it was), consulting, internal-strategy roles (pre-MBA/post MBA). I have also interviewed at headhunting firms and have somewhat of an understanding of what they do. They use monster.com as one tool to find canddiates. Also, fortune 500 companies use monster. Why wouldn't they use monster? It is a database to find people who are passively or actively looking. Research companies routinely use monster.com to contact people to do surveys. Pre-law school, I had a database of headhunters who have contacted me (mainly b/c of my resume on monster). There were 50 to 100 people on that list. Please don't tell me that headhunters don't use monster when I know that they do. And these are also not shit-positions. Been contacted for gigs at Booz-Allen, Goldman Sachs (non-Ibanking), and other top companies.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby BarbellDreams » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:38 pm

Headhunters in the legal industry are not like headhunters in other careers that actually have openings. Legal headhunters can be useful if you have a ton of experience and want to lateral or contact with big level firms. When you are an entry level you can offer nothing and firms will not hire a headhunter when they are being mass-mail spammed daily with hundreds of well qualified grads. I was warned by multiple attorneys to stay away from headhunters because as an entry level all they will do is mass mail your resume everywhere which will, if anything, just make you look bad in the legal industry at the start of your career. Telling entry levels to get headhunters is akin to telling entry levels that doc review is a "great stepping stone and experience".

sparty99
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:12 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Headhunters in the legal industry are not like headhunters in other careers that actually have openings. Legal headhunters can be useful if you have a ton of experience and want to lateral or contact with big level firms. When you are an entry level you can offer nothing and firms will not hire a headhunter when they are being mass-mail spammed daily with hundreds of well qualified grads. I was warned by multiple attorneys to stay away from headhunters because as an entry level all they will do is mass mail your resume everywhere which will, if anything, just make you look bad in the legal industry at the start of your career. Telling entry levels to get headhunters is akin to telling entry levels that doc review is a "great stepping stone and experience".


The poster asked about how to find headhunters. I told him. Of course, in any industry, companies hardly use head hunters for entry-level positions since they have no experience. However, after 2-5 years experience they can be useful.

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a male human
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:58 am

In any case I filled out my Monster and Resume Builder profiles because why not. Their job listings are pretty barren, though.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:12 pm

ugh got a missed call this morning from a law firm in my city, but no voicemail... can't remember applying for a job there, but who knows. not sure whether i'm desperate enough to just call back and ask them what's up.

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:ugh got a missed call this morning from a law firm in my city, but no voicemail... can't remember applying for a job there, but who knows. not sure whether i'm desperate enough to just call back and ask them what's up.


Why the fuck wouldn't you? I'd have called back already and said, hey I got a call from this number, my name is anon, were you trying to reach me?

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Stanford4Me
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:41 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:ugh got a missed call this morning from a law firm in my city, but no voicemail... can't remember applying for a job there, but who knows. not sure whether i'm desperate enough to just call back and ask them what's up.


Why the fuck wouldn't you?

Pokemon
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Pokemon » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:ugh got a missed call this morning from a law firm in my city, but no voicemail... can't remember applying for a job there, but who knows. not sure whether i'm desperate enough to just call back and ask them what's up.


Yeah man... you are way off on this... you are supposed to call back and I always call back.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:04 pm

Pokemon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:ugh got a missed call this morning from a law firm in my city, but no voicemail... can't remember applying for a job there, but who knows. not sure whether i'm desperate enough to just call back and ask them what's up.


Yeah man... you are way off on this... you are supposed to call back and I always call back.


ok i called back!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:08 pm

Hey I'm a 2L, just wanted to help you guys out: Cadwalader is hiring 3Ls for its Charlotte office. [deleted] Briar & Kelly is looking for a corporate/tax associate in it's Scranton office.

lukertin
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby lukertin » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:ok i called back!

you're supposed to tell us how it went

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spleenworship
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:50 pm

lukertin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:ok i called back!

you're supposed to tell us how it went


This.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:54 pm

spleenworship wrote:
lukertin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:ok i called back!

you're supposed to tell us how it went


This.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:03 pm

From 1 to 10, how pathetic is it that a few days ago I got excited when I received an automatic acknowledgment of my application to my favorite V-10?




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