The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

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mr. wednesday
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Someone I'm really close to is currently in the Vale (although not on TLS), and I've been trying to figure out how to help her. She's a 3L, ~top 25% at a T14, journal e-board. Struck out at OCI and worked at a small firm she hated last summer that never gives offers. I've tried suggesting applying to government positions, but she still really seems to e stuck in the big firm mindset and gets really upset wheneverwe talk about it, so I've mostly stopped bringing it up. She came to law school to do the big firm thing, so I understand that she's feeling really lost right now, but as a friend, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to help - either with the job search, or just by being there. It's been hard for me to figure out what to do, because every time we talk about job stuff (even if she's the one to bring it up), she gets incredibly upset and/or angry.

I know you guys are going through a lot, so I don't want to bug you all, but if you have any advice on how I can help my friend - either job-wise or emotionally - I would greatly appreciate it.


Honestly, the best way to help her is don't help her. If she doesn't want to talk about it, that's her choice. You can't (and shouldn't) control what kind of jobs she applies to, and it sounds like she is looking for a shoulder to cry on/ vent at, not advice.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:35 pm

skw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have an in-house counsel interview with a nationwide retail store based in Atlanta tomorrow that my school helped set up. I don't really know how to prep for the interview at all. HELP!

Assuming it is a public company, read their last couple 10ks. There could also be analyst reports or interviews with key management online. Understanding their business plan/goals and offering some semblance of an understanding of how legal services facilitate the overall goals is key. Good luck. It sounds like an excellent opportunity. If the company is private, the best you can do is learn all you can from press releases and other available public data.


What are 10ks?

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mr. wednesday
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What are 10ks?

http://www.sec.gov/answers/form10k.htm

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chrisbru
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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
skw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have an in-house counsel interview with a nationwide retail store based in Atlanta tomorrow that my school helped set up. I don't really know how to prep for the interview at all. HELP!

Assuming it is a public company, read their last couple 10ks. There could also be analyst reports or interviews with key management online. Understanding their business plan/goals and offering some semblance of an understanding of how legal services facilitate the overall goals is key. Good luck. It sounds like an excellent opportunity. If the company is private, the best you can do is learn all you can from press releases and other available public data.


What are 10ks?


This is something you should know if you want to go in house somewhere. Not trying to be a dick at all - but you should really read up on corporations a bit before the interview.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby skw » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
skw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have an in-house counsel interview with a nationwide retail store based in Atlanta tomorrow that my school helped set up. I don't really know how to prep for the interview at all. HELP!

Assuming it is a public company, read their last couple 10ks. There could also be analyst reports or interviews with key management online. Understanding their business plan/goals and offering some semblance of an understanding of how legal services facilitate the overall goals is key. Good luck. It sounds like an excellent opportunity. If the company is private, the best you can do is learn all you can from press releases and other available public data.


What are 10ks?

The annual report a public company files to comply with SEC regulations. You can find 10ks in the investor relations portion of their website or on EDGAR.
Last edited by skw on Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Someone I'm really close to is currently in the Vale (although not on TLS), and I've been trying to figure out how to help her. She's a 3L, ~top 25% at a T14, journal e-board. Struck out at OCI and worked at a small firm she hated last summer that never gives offers. I've tried suggesting applying to government positions, but she still really seems to e stuck in the big firm mindset and gets really upset wheneverwe talk about it, so I've mostly stopped bringing it up. She came to law school to do the big firm thing, so I understand that she's feeling really lost right now, but as a friend, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to help - either with the job search, or just by being there. It's been hard for me to figure out what to do, because every time we talk about job stuff (even if she's the one to bring it up), she gets incredibly upset and/or angry.

I know you guys are going through a lot, so I don't want to bug you all, but if you have any advice on how I can help my friend - either job-wise or emotionally - I would greatly appreciate it.

Probably just listen and not rush or rub it in her. It's good to talk about it sometimes, but if you say one more word about it than she wants, she might get upset. I know because I have a friend who sometimes goes overboard and makes fun of me too much for being unemployed. It's OK when I go on a self-deprecating tirade but not when he elaborates on it beyond what's cool (even if I brought it up first). Not saying you're doing that but she might want to limit her exposure. These are sensitive times that take me on emotional roller coasters. I don't blame her if she gets angry just even thinks about it. She's a 3L, though, so she still has plenty of time to face reality.

(Do you see her as just a friend, though?)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby mr. wednesday » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:43 pm

chrisbru wrote:This is something you should know if you want to go in house somewhere. Not trying to be a dick at all - but you should really read up on corporations a bit before the interview.

ehh. some in-house work is almost entirely HR/employment related.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby skw » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:47 pm

mr. wednesday wrote:
chrisbru wrote:This is something you should know if you want to go in house somewhere. Not trying to be a dick at all - but you should really read up on corporations a bit before the interview.

ehh. some in-house work is almost entirely HR/employment related.

Regardless, the overall corporte direction and plan should inform the legal strategy. 10ks are minimum required reading. Even if you already worked at the company in HR legal, you should know this information.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:17 pm

skw wrote:
mr. wednesday wrote:
chrisbru wrote:This is something you should know if you want to go in house somewhere. Not trying to be a dick at all - but you should really read up on corporations a bit before the interview.

ehh. some in-house work is almost entirely HR/employment related.

Regardless, the overall corporte direction and plan should inform the legal strategy. 10ks are minimum required reading. Even if you already worked at the company in HR legal, you should know this information.


This.

Although I am in the Vale so maybe lolwutdafukdoiknow

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:30 pm

a male human wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Someone I'm really close to is currently in the Vale (although not on TLS), and I've been trying to figure out how to help her. She's a 3L, ~top 25% at a T14, journal e-board. Struck out at OCI and worked at a small firm she hated last summer that never gives offers. I've tried suggesting applying to government positions, but she still really seems to e stuck in the big firm mindset and gets really upset wheneverwe talk about it, so I've mostly stopped bringing it up. She came to law school to do the big firm thing, so I understand that she's feeling really lost right now, but as a friend, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to help - either with the job search, or just by being there. It's been hard for me to figure out what to do, because every time we talk about job stuff (even if she's the one to bring it up), she gets incredibly upset and/or angry.

I know you guys are going through a lot, so I don't want to bug you all, but if you have any advice on how I can help my friend - either job-wise or emotionally - I would greatly appreciate it.

Probably just listen and not rush or rub it in her. It's good to talk about it sometimes, but if you say one more word about it than she wants, she might get upset. I know because I have a friend who sometimes goes overboard and makes fun of me too much for being unemployed. It's OK when I go on a self-deprecating tirade but not when he elaborates on it beyond what's cool (even if I brought it up first). Not saying you're doing that but she might want to limit her exposure. These are sensitive times that take me on emotional roller coasters. I don't blame her if she gets angry just even thinks about it. She's a 3L, though, so she still has plenty of time to face reality.

(Do you see her as just a friend, though?)

I don't blame her either, and I would never joke about the situation because I know how upset it makes her and how shitty it must be. Just trying to figure out what she needs. And no, not just friends, which is why I'm trying to be as careful as I can - I really care about her and want the best for her.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I don't blame her either, and I would never joke about the situation because I know how upset it makes her and how shitty it must be. Just trying to figure out what she needs. And no, not just friends, which is why I'm trying to be as careful as I can - I really care about her and want the best for her.


How's your job situation? If you aren't set up yet, can you casually commiserate about how rough the job market is and talk about the steps you are taking to find something? That gives her ideas of what she can be doing without actually suggesting anything.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Someone I'm really close to is currently in the Vale (although not on TLS), and I've been trying to figure out how to help her. She's a 3L, ~top 25% at a T14, journal e-board. Struck out at OCI and worked at a small firm she hated last summer that never gives offers. I've tried suggesting applying to government positions, but she still really seems to e stuck in the big firm mindset and gets really upset wheneverwe talk about it, so I've mostly stopped bringing it up. She came to law school to do the big firm thing, so I understand that she's feeling really lost right now, but as a friend, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to help - either with the job search, or just by being there. It's been hard for me to figure out what to do, because every time we talk about job stuff (even if she's the one to bring it up), she gets incredibly upset and/or angry.

I know you guys are going through a lot, so I don't want to bug you all, but if you have any advice on how I can help my friend - either job-wise or emotionally - I would greatly appreciate it.


Just be there if she wants to talk about it, and stop the conversation if she starts going over the edge. I'm guessing you're employed, and when I talk about job search stuff with employed friends while I'm sitting here drowning in debt, they sometimes say things that I, being very sensitive, take as barbs. For example, a very good friend of mine has guaranteed employment because she's military--and she whines about it. It takes nearly all my self-control not to rage out of control when she complains about her job when I'm desperate for one, even though I know perfectly well she does not mean it to be a jab and yeah, the menial stuff she's complaining about would irritate me too. I'm not saying you're insensitive, but your friend is probably feeling a lot like me and a very small comment can set me (and probably her) off. That's not necessary super mature of her or me, but that is where I know I'm at--so just be careful with her.

btw, you're a really good friend to ask about this. I hope she knows that.

Oh, and pro-tip to everyone: please for the love of God don't talk about job searches while you're studying for the bar. It's too much.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:47 pm

chrisbru wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I don't blame her either, and I would never joke about the situation because I know how upset it makes her and how shitty it must be. Just trying to figure out what she needs. And no, not just friends, which is why I'm trying to be as careful as I can - I really care about her and want the best for her.


How's your job situation? If you aren't set up yet, can you casually commiserate about how rough the job market is and talk about the steps you are taking to find something? That gives her ideas of what she can be doing without actually suggesting anything.

I got lucky with job stuff (after quite a while of really horrible luck, finally I caught a really lucky break), so I can't talk about my own situation with her.

I hope everything works out and she finds something soon. Same to all of you. Thanks so much for acting as my sounding board, I really appreciate it.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Someone I'm really close to is currently in the Vale (although not on TLS), and I've been trying to figure out how to help her. She's a 3L, ~top 25% at a T14, journal e-board. Struck out at OCI and worked at a small firm she hated last summer that never gives offers. I've tried suggesting applying to government positions, but she still really seems to e stuck in the big firm mindset and gets really upset wheneverwe talk about it, so I've mostly stopped bringing it up. She came to law school to do the big firm thing, so I understand that she's feeling really lost right now, but as a friend, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to help - either with the job search, or just by being there. It's been hard for me to figure out what to do, because every time we talk about job stuff (even if she's the one to bring it up), she gets incredibly upset and/or angry.

I know you guys are going through a lot, so I don't want to bug you all, but if you have any advice on how I can help my friend - either job-wise or emotionally - I would greatly appreciate it.


Just be there if she wants to talk about it, and stop the conversation if she starts going over the edge. I'm guessing you're employed, and when I talk about job search stuff with employed friends while I'm sitting here drowning in debt, they sometimes say things that I, being very sensitive, take as barbs. For example, a very good friend of mine has guaranteed employment because she's military--and she whines about it. It takes nearly all my self-control not to rage out of control when she complains about her job when I'm desperate for one, even though I know perfectly well she does not mean it to be a jab and yeah, the menial stuff she's complaining about would irritate me too. I'm not saying you're insensitive, but your friend is probably feeling a lot like me and a very small comment can set me (and probably her) off. That's not necessary super mature of her or me, but that is where I know I'm at--so just be careful with her.

btw, you're a really good friend to ask about this. I hope she knows that.

Oh, and pro-tip to everyone: please for the love of God don't talk about job searches while you're studying for the bar. It's too much.

Thanks, this is really good advice. I appreciate the help. It's hard to see someone you care about go through this. I really feel for her and everyone here.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:25 pm

Yeah, speaking of being sensitive, one time when we were 3Ls, a friend asked me how can she find a job. I got angry because she seemed to go on interviews like every 1-2 weeks. She has old people making connections for her, guys offering to help all the time, and her parents funded her entire education. On top of that she's always going on and giggling about all these guys she's dating and hooking up with and deciding who to give a second date. I'm sure she worked hard, but it seemed like she was just having the time of her life. And then she has the insensitivity to ask me how to find a job? Why don't you use your connections to help me out in consideration of having to listening to you?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby kalvano » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:28 pm

If anyone is interested in moving to Texas, the Office of Inspector General is actively looking for law grads, and looking quickly.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:49 pm

In-house interview went great! Everybody at the company is really nice and laid back. They told me I'd find out over the next week whether or not they'd bring me aboard, but I think I might legitimately have a chance to leave the Vale!

Edited for silliness.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Void » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:In-house interview went great! Everybody at the company is really nice and laid back. They told me I'd find out over the next week whether or not they'd bring me aboard, but I think I might legitimately have a chance to leave the Vale! Is it ridiculous that I am almost crying with happiness/relief?


Congrats! No offense, but it may be a little ridiculous to start feeling all teary eyed because you don't have an offer yet. Don't feel too relieved yet- keep hustling and don't marry yourself to any one position because if it doesn't work out you don't want to feel totally crushed/depressed.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby a male human » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:21 pm

Void wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:In-house interview went great! Everybody at the company is really nice and laid back. They told me I'd find out over the next week whether or not they'd bring me aboard, but I think I might legitimately have a chance to leave the Vale! Is it ridiculous that I am almost crying with happiness/relief?


Congrats! No offense, but it may be a little ridiculous to start feeling all teary eyed because you don't have an offer yet. Don't feel too relieved yet- keep hustling and don't marry yourself to any one position because if it doesn't work out you don't want to feel totally crushed/depressed.

This. I had an interview where they seemed all jolly and we were having a good time. They even said they didn't have any concerns about my ability to be successful at the position. I was so stoked leaving the interview for what I thought would be an awesome job. I was pretty sure I was getting that 2nd round. And then I got a rejection letter.

That was the only interview I had since I took the bar. Makes me harshly regret whatever I did to flunk the interview.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My family, and how devastated they would be from my suicide, is pretty much the only thing keeping me alive at this point. I'm living for them, not for myself. :|

I keep on thinking what could I have done differently in the past so that I wouldn't have gotten into this mess? (besides, you know, not going to law school in the first place!) These nagging "what if's" just can't leave me the fuck alone.




You couldn't have described what i'm going though any better...


Suicide? Because you can't find a legal job? The shit aint that deep. You should see a counselor. Immediately. Also, consider applying to non-legal jobs. Immediately.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby sparty99 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:In-house interview went great! Everybody at the company is really nice and laid back. They told me I'd find out over the next week whether or not they'd bring me aboard, but I think I might legitimately have a chance to leave the Vale!

Edited for silliness.


Glad to hear that your interview with Home Depot went well.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:39 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:In-house interview went great! Everybody at the company is really nice and laid back. They told me I'd find out over the next week whether or not they'd bring me aboard, but I think I might legitimately have a chance to leave the Vale!

Edited for silliness.


Glad to hear that your interview with Home Depot went well.


Are you just trying to be annoying? GTFO.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby Total Litigator » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:46 pm

chrisbru wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:In-house interview went great! Everybody at the company is really nice and laid back. They told me I'd find out over the next week whether or not they'd bring me aboard, but I think I might legitimately have a chance to leave the Vale!

Edited for silliness.


Glad to hear that your interview with Home Depot went well.


Are you just trying to be annoying? GTFO.



Oh come on, that was kind of funny.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby chrisbru » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:50 pm

Total Litigator wrote:
Oh come on, that was kind of funny.


Two "lighthearted" (read, poor taste) remarks in a row is annoying. This isn't the thread for that.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Postby iceman219 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have an in-house counsel interview with a nationwide retail store based in Atlanta tomorrow that my school helped set up. I don't really know how to prep for the interview at all. HELP!


chrisbru wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:In-house interview went great! Everybody at the company is really nice and laid back. They told me I'd find out over the next week whether or not they'd bring me aboard, but I think I might legitimately have a chance to leave the Vale!

Edited for silliness.


Glad to hear that your interview with Home Depot went well.


Are you just trying to be annoying? GTFO.


The Anon poster, with "Atlanta" & "nationwide retail store" seemed to be not-so-discreetly referring to Home Depot. I think that's what sparty99 was picking up on.




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